Exporting MIDI from Cubase 5??

I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
else has defaulted to piano.

I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...

Can anyone help?.........LL

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:37:06 +0000, lancelightning <> wrote:

>I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
>them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
>bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
>alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
>mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
>part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
>is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
>export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
>is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
>midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
>else has defaulted to piano.
>
>I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
>preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...
>
>Can anyone help?.........LL

Don't export as midi, but send him the cpr?

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:14:27 +0100, Max Doorrijhoogte
<> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:37:06 +0000, lancelightning <> wrote:
>
>>I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
>>them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
>>bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
>>alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
>>mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
>>part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
>>is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
>>export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
>>is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
>>midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
>>else has defaulted to piano.
>>
>>I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
>>preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...
>>
>>Can anyone help?.........LL
>
>Don't export as midi, but send him the cpr?

I wish it was that simple!! He isn't using Cubase. He has a very old
hardware sequencer. I can't get him into using Cubase.

I have a feeling that once I start using vsti's etc, I'm stepping
outside the world of General Midi altogether which could be the cause
of my problems. Nontheless I would have thought there would be a way
of exporting the patch info....something in MIDI Device Manager or
whatever its called?? I dunno...

Everything works fine for me when I'm creating my own songs...but
we're working on some backing tracks here...hence the need to use the
old midi file format which is antiquated. but still seems to be the
accepted way of doing things when it comes to this type of work.

Thanks anyway...any other takers?...LL

Op 22-2-2010 22:46, lancelightning schreef:
> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:14:27 +0100, Max Doorrijhoogte
> <> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:37:06 +0000, lancelightning<> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
>>> them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
>>> bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
>>> alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
>>> mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
>>> part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
>>> is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
>>> export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
>>> is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
>>> midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
>>> else has defaulted to piano.
>>>
>>> I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
>>> preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...
>>>
>>> Can anyone help?.........LL
>>
>> Don't export as midi, but send him the cpr?
>
> I wish it was that simple!! He isn't using Cubase. He has a very old
> hardware sequencer. I can't get him into using Cubase.
>
> I have a feeling that once I start using vsti's etc, I'm stepping
> outside the world of General Midi altogether which could be the cause
> of my problems. Nontheless I would have thought there would be a way
> of exporting the patch info....something in MIDI Device Manager or
> whatever its called?? I dunno...
>
> Everything works fine for me when I'm creating my own songs...but
> we're working on some backing tracks here...hence the need to use the
> old midi file format which is antiquated. but still seems to be the
> accepted way of doing things when it comes to this type of work.
>
> Thanks anyway...any other takers?...LL

I have at times successfully exported MIDI with Cubase 5. It is not
always easy to check whether Cubase has done what you intended, unless
you have some independent MIDI monitor or other. When you reimport the
MIDI file into Cubase, it makes its own assumptions, so that doesn't help.

Anyway what Cubase exports is determined by the settings in
Preferences/MIDI/Midi File. "Export Inspector Patch" means that any
settings to the "program selector" field (which you have on a track that
is routed to a MIDI device) is converted to Program Change / Bank Select
messages. This is what you want. Make sure it is selected.

To be honest, I don't rely on this myself. I don't make General MIDI
files for the public domain. If I have to export as MIDI, I make sure my
tracks and events are clearly marked with the name of the instrument or
whatever. I leave it to the other side to get the settings right.

HTH

Jos.

--
Ardis Park Music
www.ardispark.nl

On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:46:23 +0000, lancelightning <> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:14:27 +0100, Max Doorrijhoogte
><> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:37:06 +0000, lancelightning <> wrote:
>>
>>>I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
>>>them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
>>>bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
>>>alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
>>>mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
>>>part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
>>>is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
>>>export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
>>>is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
>>>midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
>>>else has defaulted to piano.
>>>
>>>I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
>>>preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...
>>>
>>>Can anyone help?.........LL
>>
>>Don't export as midi, but send him the cpr?
>
>I wish it was that simple!! He isn't using Cubase. He has a very old
>hardware sequencer. I can't get him into using Cubase.
>
>I have a feeling that once I start using vsti's etc, I'm stepping
>outside the world of General Midi altogether which could be the cause
>of my problems. Nontheless I would have thought there would be a way
>of exporting the patch info....something in MIDI Device Manager or
>whatever its called?? I dunno...
>
>Everything works fine for me when I'm creating my own songs...but
>we're working on some backing tracks here...hence the need to use the
>old midi file format which is antiquated. but still seems to be the
>accepted way of doing things when it comes to this type of work.
>
>Thanks anyway...any other takers?...LL

Maybe the old trial-and-error way?
Fiddle with settings, export as MIDI and then play back with a simple
player such as Winamp.
Time-consuming, I know, but it will get the job done in the end

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:24:49 +0100, Jos Geluk <>
wrote:

>Op 22-2-2010 22:46, lancelightning schreef:
>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:14:27 +0100, Max Doorrijhoogte
>> <> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:37:06 +0000, lancelightning<> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
>>>> them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
>>>> bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
>>>> alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
>>>> mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
>>>> part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
>>>> is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
>>>> export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
>>>> is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
>>>> midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
>>>> else has defaulted to piano.
>>>>
>>>> I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
>>>> preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone help?.........LL
>>>
>>> Don't export as midi, but send him the cpr?
>>
>> I wish it was that simple!! He isn't using Cubase. He has a very old
>> hardware sequencer. I can't get him into using Cubase.
>>
>> I have a feeling that once I start using vsti's etc, I'm stepping
>> outside the world of General Midi altogether which could be the cause
>> of my problems. Nontheless I would have thought there would be a way
>> of exporting the patch info....something in MIDI Device Manager or
>> whatever its called?? I dunno...
>>
>> Everything works fine for me when I'm creating my own songs...but
>> we're working on some backing tracks here...hence the need to use the
>> old midi file format which is antiquated. but still seems to be the
>> accepted way of doing things when it comes to this type of work.
>>
>> Thanks anyway...any other takers?...LL
>
>I have at times successfully exported MIDI with Cubase 5. It is not
>always easy to check whether Cubase has done what you intended, unless
>you have some independent MIDI monitor or other. When you reimport the
>MIDI file into Cubase, it makes its own assumptions, so that doesn't help.
>
>Anyway what Cubase exports is determined by the settings in
>Preferences/MIDI/Midi File. "Export Inspector Patch" means that any
>settings to the "program selector" field (which you have on a track that
>is routed to a MIDI device) is converted to Program Change / Bank Select
>messages. This is what you want. Make sure it is selected.
>
>To be honest, I don't rely on this myself. I don't make General MIDI
>files for the public domain. If I have to export as MIDI, I make sure my
>tracks and events are clearly marked with the name of the instrument or
>whatever. I leave it to the other side to get the settings right.
>
>HTH
>
>Jos.

Hi Jos...

Thanks for your input...Yeah I've tried all the stuff in '
Preferences' as you suggest. It does indeed work ok sometimes, but
more often than not, much of the original voice/midi info gets lost
once I start manipulating the files within Cubase. Your last comment
about clearly marking instrument names/events etc. is probably as good
as it gets.

I'll blame my mate for using his crappy old midi sequencer!! We'll
get around it one way or another. Someone told me that Sonar was
better at handling midi files...but I'm not about to change my DAW for
that!! I use Cubase mainly for recording my original songs, and it
does everything I want for that purpose.

I'd still be greatful for any other ideas.......LL

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:08:26 +0100, Max Doorrijhoogte
<> wrote:


>
>Maybe the old trial-and-error way?
>Fiddle with settings, export as MIDI and then play back with a simple
>player such as Winamp.
>Time-consuming, I know, but it will get the job done in the end

Yeah...there isn't much along those lines I havn't already tried. None
of the media players will successfully open the files up once I've
exported them from Cubase ...I've tried Windows Media Player, the
Apple one - whatever its called..Winamp, a couple of others...you name
it. To make matters worse my mate is trying to open them up using an
old Yamaha hardware sequencer which doesn't help at all.

The problem is, I think, down to what happens to the files inside of
Cubase..it would appear to be beyond capabilities of the GM/XG type
formats.

I'm still open to ideas though.....LL

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:24:49 +0100, Jos Geluk <>
wrote:

I've found a workaround...It seems that the midi channel and voice
info is getting lost or corrupted when the original midi file is
loaded onto Cubase instrument tracks. If I create the same number of
midi tracks and drag all my finished work down onto those..reset all
the voices and midi channels...voila! Cubase will now export the midi
file properly. Its a lot of messing about, but at least my friend can
now load up my work.

The midi file format is antiquated. but it is still widely used for
backing tracks. I don't think that the current incarnation of Cubase
is really designed for this type of work. I might benefit from loading
up an old Cubase version...VST5 springs to mind.

I'd still appreciate any other suggestions....

LL

Op 23-2-2010 12:30, lancelightning schreef:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:24:49 +0100, Jos Geluk<>
> wrote:


> The midi file format is antiquated. but it is still widely used for
> backing tracks. I don't think that the current incarnation of Cubase
> is really designed for this type of work. I might benefit from loading
> up an old Cubase version...VST5 springs to mind.
>
> I'd still appreciate any other suggestions....

Dunno about that. I have often tried to have SX2 export MIDI. I think
only one ever really played in another player, as it had only one track
with a single instrument. I had more luck with Cubase 5.

Why don't you ask around in the alt.binaries.sounds.midi group for a
decent editor? I haven't been there for a while, but I remember the
topic of a MIDI editor came up frequently. There should be several good
ones to be found. Then export from Cubase as best you can, and tweak the
file with the MIDI editor.


Jos.

--
Ardis Park Music
www.ardispark.nl

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:40:50 +0100, Jos Geluk <>
wrote:

>Op 23-2-2010 12:30, lancelightning schreef:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:24:49 +0100, Jos Geluk<>
>> wrote:
>
>
>> The midi file format is antiquated. but it is still widely used for
>> backing tracks. I don't think that the current incarnation of Cubase
>> is really designed for this type of work. I might benefit from loading
>> up an old Cubase version...VST5 springs to mind.
>>
>> I'd still appreciate any other suggestions....
>
>Dunno about that. I have often tried to have SX2 export MIDI. I think
>only one ever really played in another player, as it had only one track
>with a single instrument. I had more luck with Cubase 5.
>
>Why don't you ask around in the alt.binaries.sounds.midi group for a
>decent editor? I haven't been there for a while, but I remember the
>topic of a MIDI editor came up frequently. There should be several good
>ones to be found. Then export from Cubase as best you can, and tweak the
>file with the MIDI editor.
>
>
>Jos.

Good idea..I do have an old Yamaha sequencing program somewhere buried
away. I'll try and find that...Its rather old but it might provide a
simple solution. Or possibly an older version of Cubase... Otherwise
I'll ask around as you suggest. I will try that NG.

I have actually found a workaround in Cubase 5, but it involves an
awful lot of messing about.

Thanks for your suggestions....LL

Op 23-2-2010 15:05, lancelightning schreef:

> I have actually found a workaround in Cubase 5, but it involves an
> awful lot of messing about.

Hey, NOW I'm curious. What kind of messing about?

A bit of a cliffhanger, that

Jos.

--
Ardis Park Music
www.ardispark.nl

On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:12:27 +0100, Jos Geluk <>
wrote:

>Op 23-2-2010 15:05, lancelightning schreef:
>
>> I have actually found a workaround in Cubase 5, but it involves an
>> awful lot of messing about.
>
>Hey, NOW I'm curious. What kind of messing about?
>
>A bit of a cliffhanger, that
>
>Jos.

Jos,

I suspect that the problem is caused by importing the original
midi files onto Instrument Tracks, rather than plain Midi Tracks.
Perhaps I shouldn't do that, but its what Cubase 5 does by
default..plus its nice to be able to play the files using Halion or
whatever, rather than some crappy wavetable synth. Anyway this is
where I think some of the info gets lost or corrupted...particularly
if I start manipulating stuff, adding new parts/sections or whatever.
I still would have thought that the basic midi info would be retained.
If I try to export midi at this staget, I usually find that all the
voices default back to piano, except for the drums.There's other
problems too.

The workaround: Jeez, how do I explain it?!! When I've completed
work on a particular midi song, I've found that if I create the same
number of empty midi tracks and drag or copy all the info onto
those...I can then reset all the midi channel numbers and voices,
delete or mute the instrument tracks and export the midi file. Of
course I lose any vsti settings, but that's not an issue. Unlike
before, the new midi file now plays/loads up as it should. Does any of
this make sense??!!

It does work, but its a horribly convoluted way of going on. I'm
hoping that Laurence might chip in on this one! I have a feeling that
I'm going about this completely the wrong way else I've missed
something obvious.

LL

Op 23-2-2010 19:01, lancelightning schreef:
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:12:27 +0100, Jos Geluk<>
> wrote:
>
>> Op 23-2-2010 15:05, lancelightning schreef:
>>
>>> I have actually found a workaround in Cubase 5, but it involves an
>>> awful lot of messing about.
>>
>> Hey, NOW I'm curious. What kind of messing about?
>>
>> A bit of a cliffhanger, that
>>
>> Jos.
>
> Jos,
>
> I suspect that the problem is caused by importing the original
> midi files onto Instrument Tracks, rather than plain Midi Tracks.
> Perhaps I shouldn't do that, but its what Cubase 5 does by
> default..plus its nice to be able to play the files using Halion or
> whatever, rather than some crappy wavetable synth. Anyway this is
> where I think some of the info gets lost or corrupted...particularly
> if I start manipulating stuff, adding new parts/sections or whatever.
> I still would have thought that the basic midi info would be retained.
> If I try to export midi at this staget, I usually find that all the
> voices default back to piano, except for the drums.There's other
> problems too.
>
> The workaround: Jeez, how do I explain it?!! When I've completed
> work on a particular midi song, I've found that if I create the same
> number of empty midi tracks and drag or copy all the info onto
> those...I can then reset all the midi channel numbers and voices,
> delete or mute the instrument tracks and export the midi file. Of
> course I lose any vsti settings, but that's not an issue. Unlike
> before, the new midi file now plays/loads up as it should. Does any of
> this make sense??!!
>
> It does work, but its a horribly convoluted way of going on. I'm
> hoping that Laurence might chip in on this one! I have a feeling that
> I'm going about this completely the wrong way else I've missed
> something obvious.

Thanks for explaining that. I never use instrument tracks. I understand
the idea behind it, but it just isn't flexible enough for me.
What you explained does make sense, but have you tried this instead:
enter program changes (and bank select messages, if you have them),
volume and pan controllers etc. straight into the list editor? Those
should be preserved at export time.

Jos.

--
Ardis Park Music
www.ardispark.nl

lancelightning wrote:
> I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
> them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
> bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
> alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
> mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
> part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
> is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
> export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
> is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
> midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
> else has defaulted to piano.
>
> I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
> preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...
>
> Can anyone help?.........LL

How are you setting your program changes? Do you include a pre-roll bar
with the program setup (ie bank and voice selection for the module you
are targeting)?

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:34:53 GMT, Swanny <> wrote:

>lancelightning wrote:
>> I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
>> them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
>> bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
>> alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
>> mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
>> part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
>> is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
>> export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
>> is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
>> midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
>> else has defaulted to piano.
>>
>> I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
>> preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...
>>
>> Can anyone help?.........LL
>
>How are you setting your program changes? Do you include a pre-roll bar
>with the program setup (ie bank and voice selection for the module you
>are targeting)?

Well that shouldn't be necessary, but I'll certainly have a play along
those lines.The info should all still be there from the original midi
file...I think I need to forget about using Instrument Tracks for this
particular purpose.

LL

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:45:38 +0100, Jos Geluk <>
wrote:

>Op 23-2-2010 19:01, lancelightning schreef:
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:12:27 +0100, Jos Geluk<>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Op 23-2-2010 15:05, lancelightning schreef:
>>>
>>>> I have actually found a workaround in Cubase 5, but it involves an
>>>> awful lot of messing about.
>>>
>>> Hey, NOW I'm curious. What kind of messing about?
>>>
>>> A bit of a cliffhanger, that
>>>
>>> Jos.
>>
>> Jos,
>>
>> I suspect that the problem is caused by importing the original
>> midi files onto Instrument Tracks, rather than plain Midi Tracks.
>> Perhaps I shouldn't do that, but its what Cubase 5 does by
>> default..plus its nice to be able to play the files using Halion or
>> whatever, rather than some crappy wavetable synth. Anyway this is
>> where I think some of the info gets lost or corrupted...particularly
>> if I start manipulating stuff, adding new parts/sections or whatever.
>> I still would have thought that the basic midi info would be retained.
>> If I try to export midi at this staget, I usually find that all the
>> voices default back to piano, except for the drums.There's other
>> problems too.
>>
>> The workaround: Jeez, how do I explain it?!! When I've completed
>> work on a particular midi song, I've found that if I create the same
>> number of empty midi tracks and drag or copy all the info onto
>> those...I can then reset all the midi channel numbers and voices,
>> delete or mute the instrument tracks and export the midi file. Of
>> course I lose any vsti settings, but that's not an issue. Unlike
>> before, the new midi file now plays/loads up as it should. Does any of
>> this make sense??!!
>>
>> It does work, but its a horribly convoluted way of going on. I'm
>> hoping that Laurence might chip in on this one! I have a feeling that
>> I'm going about this completely the wrong way else I've missed
>> something obvious.
>
>Thanks for explaining that. I never use instrument tracks. I understand
>the idea behind it, but it just isn't flexible enough for me.
>What you explained does make sense, but have you tried this instead:
>enter program changes (and bank select messages, if you have them),
>volume and pan controllers etc. straight into the list editor? Those
>should be preserved at export time.
>
>Jos.

I'll try what you suggest, but I reckon the solution long-term is not
to use instrument tracks at all for this project. Rather to import
onto midi tracks ...I reckon that'll work....LL

"lancelightning" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:24:49 +0100, Jos Geluk <>
> wrote:
>
>>Op 22-2-2010 22:46, lancelightning schreef:
>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:14:27 +0100, Max Doorrijhoogte
>>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:37:06 +0000, lancelightning<> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
>>>>> them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
>>>>> bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
>>>>> alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
>>>>> mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
>>>>> part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
>>>>> is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
>>>>> export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
>>>>> is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
>>>>> midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
>>>>> else has defaulted to piano.
>>>>>
>>>>> I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
>>>>> preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone help?.........LL
>>>>
>>>> Don't export as midi, but send him the cpr?
>>>
>>> I wish it was that simple!! He isn't using Cubase. He has a very old
>>> hardware sequencer. I can't get him into using Cubase.
>>>
>>> I have a feeling that once I start using vsti's etc, I'm stepping
>>> outside the world of General Midi altogether which could be the cause
>>> of my problems. Nontheless I would have thought there would be a way
>>> of exporting the patch info....something in MIDI Device Manager or
>>> whatever its called?? I dunno...
>>>
>>> Everything works fine for me when I'm creating my own songs...but
>>> we're working on some backing tracks here...hence the need to use the
>>> old midi file format which is antiquated. but still seems to be the
>>> accepted way of doing things when it comes to this type of work.
>>>
>>> Thanks anyway...any other takers?...LL
>>
>>I have at times successfully exported MIDI with Cubase 5. It is not
>>always easy to check whether Cubase has done what you intended, unless
>>you have some independent MIDI monitor or other. When you reimport the
>>MIDI file into Cubase, it makes its own assumptions, so that doesn't help.
>>
>>Anyway what Cubase exports is determined by the settings in
>>Preferences/MIDI/Midi File. "Export Inspector Patch" means that any
>>settings to the "program selector" field (which you have on a track that
>>is routed to a MIDI device) is converted to Program Change / Bank Select
>>messages. This is what you want. Make sure it is selected.
>>
>>To be honest, I don't rely on this myself. I don't make General MIDI
>>files for the public domain. If I have to export as MIDI, I make sure my
>>tracks and events are clearly marked with the name of the instrument or
>>whatever. I leave it to the other side to get the settings right.
>>
>>HTH
>>
>>Jos.
>
> Hi Jos...
>
> Thanks for your input...Yeah I've tried all the stuff in '
> Preferences' as you suggest. It does indeed work ok sometimes, but
> more often than not, much of the original voice/midi info gets lost
> once I start manipulating the files within Cubase. Your last comment
> about clearly marking instrument names/events etc. is probably as good
> as it gets.
>
> I'll blame my mate for using his crappy old midi sequencer!! We'll
> get around it one way or another. Someone told me that Sonar was
> better at handling midi files...but I'm not about to change my DAW for
> that!! I use Cubase mainly for recording my original songs, and it
> does everything I want for that purpose.
>
> I'd still be greatful for any other ideas.......LL

Insert a program change at the beginning of each MIDI track specifying which
GM patch is to be used.

http://www.midistudio.com/Help/GMSpecs_Patches.htm

Patch 1, Acoustic Piano, is default.

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:27:03 -0500, "XODDI" <>
wrote:

>
>"lancelightning" <> wrote in message
>news:...
>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:24:49 +0100, Jos Geluk <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Op 22-2-2010 22:46, lancelightning schreef:
>>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:14:27 +0100, Max Doorrijhoogte
>>>> <> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 22 Feb 2010 20:37:06 +0000, lancelightning<> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been using Cubase 5 to manipulate some midi files. I can import
>>>>>> them ok, though whether the voices and midi channels are correct is a
>>>>>> bit hit and miss. This isn't really too much of an issue as I can
>>>>>> alter them to suite. I can finish a project and export the finished
>>>>>> mix to a wav file without a hitch. BUT sometimes I want to export the
>>>>>> part-finished midi file for a friend to continue working on...and this
>>>>>> is where I'm running into big problems. I can't seem to get Cubase to
>>>>>> export the voices and their corresponding midi channels....that info
>>>>>> is getting lost somewhere in the process. As soon as I try to open the
>>>>>> midi file up again, all I'm getting is the GM drums while everything
>>>>>> else has defaulted to piano.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must have overlooked something basic...maybe something in
>>>>>> preferences, but I can't for the life of me work out what it is...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can anyone help?.........LL
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't export as midi, but send him the cpr?
>>>>
>>>> I wish it was that simple!! He isn't using Cubase. He has a very old
>>>> hardware sequencer. I can't get him into using Cubase.
>>>>
>>>> I have a feeling that once I start using vsti's etc, I'm stepping
>>>> outside the world of General Midi altogether which could be the cause
>>>> of my problems. Nontheless I would have thought there would be a way
>>>> of exporting the patch info....something in MIDI Device Manager or
>>>> whatever its called?? I dunno...
>>>>
>>>> Everything works fine for me when I'm creating my own songs...but
>>>> we're working on some backing tracks here...hence the need to use the
>>>> old midi file format which is antiquated. but still seems to be the
>>>> accepted way of doing things when it comes to this type of work.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks anyway...any other takers?...LL
>>>
>>>I have at times successfully exported MIDI with Cubase 5. It is not
>>>always easy to check whether Cubase has done what you intended, unless
>>>you have some independent MIDI monitor or other. When you reimport the
>>>MIDI file into Cubase, it makes its own assumptions, so that doesn't help.
>>>
>>>Anyway what Cubase exports is determined by the settings in
>>>Preferences/MIDI/Midi File. "Export Inspector Patch" means that any
>>>settings to the "program selector" field (which you have on a track that
>>>is routed to a MIDI device) is converted to Program Change / Bank Select
>>>messages. This is what you want. Make sure it is selected.
>>>
>>>To be honest, I don't rely on this myself. I don't make General MIDI
>>>files for the public domain. If I have to export as MIDI, I make sure my
>>>tracks and events are clearly marked with the name of the instrument or
>>>whatever. I leave it to the other side to get the settings right.
>>>
>>>HTH
>>>
>>>Jos.
>>
>> Hi Jos...
>>
>> Thanks for your input...Yeah I've tried all the stuff in '
>> Preferences' as you suggest. It does indeed work ok sometimes, but
>> more often than not, much of the original voice/midi info gets lost
>> once I start manipulating the files within Cubase. Your last comment
>> about clearly marking instrument names/events etc. is probably as good
>> as it gets.
>>
>> I'll blame my mate for using his crappy old midi sequencer!! We'll
>> get around it one way or another. Someone told me that Sonar was
>> better at handling midi files...but I'm not about to change my DAW for
>> that!! I use Cubase mainly for recording my original songs, and it
>> does everything I want for that purpose.
>>
>> I'd still be greatful for any other ideas.......LL
>
>Insert a program change at the beginning of each MIDI track specifying which
>GM patch is to be used.
>
>http://www.midistudio.com/Help/GMSpecs_Patches.htm
>
>Patch 1, Acoustic Piano, is default.

Thanks for that...I'll give it a try..........LL

On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:51:13 +0000, lancelightning <> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:45:38 +0100, Jos Geluk <>
>wrote:
>
>>Op 23-2-2010 19:01, lancelightning schreef:
>>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:12:27 +0100, Jos Geluk<>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Op 23-2-2010 15:05, lancelightning schreef:
>>>>
>>>>> I have actually found a workaround in Cubase 5, but it involves an
>>>>> awful lot of messing about.
>>>>
>>>> Hey, NOW I'm curious. What kind of messing about?
>>>>
>>>> A bit of a cliffhanger, that
>>>>
>>>> Jos.
>>>
>>> Jos,
>>>
>>> I suspect that the problem is caused by importing the original
>>> midi files onto Instrument Tracks, rather than plain Midi Tracks.
>>> Perhaps I shouldn't do that, but its what Cubase 5 does by
>>> default..plus its nice to be able to play the files using Halion or
>>> whatever, rather than some crappy wavetable synth. Anyway this is
>>> where I think some of the info gets lost or corrupted...particularly
>>> if I start manipulating stuff, adding new parts/sections or whatever.
>>> I still would have thought that the basic midi info would be retained.
>>> If I try to export midi at this staget, I usually find that all the
>>> voices default back to piano, except for the drums.There's other
>>> problems too.
>>>
>>> The workaround: Jeez, how do I explain it?!! When I've completed
>>> work on a particular midi song, I've found that if I create the same
>>> number of empty midi tracks and drag or copy all the info onto
>>> those...I can then reset all the midi channel numbers and voices,
>>> delete or mute the instrument tracks and export the midi file. Of
>>> course I lose any vsti settings, but that's not an issue. Unlike
>>> before, the new midi file now plays/loads up as it should. Does any of
>>> this make sense??!!
>>>
>>> It does work, but its a horribly convoluted way of going on. I'm
>>> hoping that Laurence might chip in on this one! I have a feeling that
>>> I'm going about this completely the wrong way else I've missed
>>> something obvious.
>>
>>Thanks for explaining that. I never use instrument tracks. I understand
>>the idea behind it, but it just isn't flexible enough for me.
>>What you explained does make sense, but have you tried this instead:
>>enter program changes (and bank select messages, if you have them),
>>volume and pan controllers etc. straight into the list editor? Those
>>should be preserved at export time.
>>
>>Jos.
>
>I'll try what you suggest, but I reckon the solution long-term is not
>to use instrument tracks at all for this project. Rather to import
>onto midi tracks ...I reckon that'll work....LL

In conclusion to my own question...Cubase will, by default, import
midi files to instrument tracks using Halion if it is installed.
That's finet if all future work on the songs is to be completed
exclusively within Cubase. However if we want to export a midi file
again at any time, all the original voice and channel info is usually
lost...you end up with just two tracks..drums and then everything else
merged onto a single piano track. Not very useful at all. I've tried
every option in 'Preferences' without any luck.

The solution is to use a midi track template(not instrument track) and
drag the midi file onto that...and then set up any vsti routing
afterwards. That way the original voice and midi channel info seems to
remain intact. It isn't ideal but it seems to work.

I appreciate that the GM format and midi files in particular are
antiquated by design, and perhaps no longer a consideration for many
users, but nothing has really replaced them. For those of us who are
involved with making/using midi backing tracks, the ability to import
and export midi files without a lot of hassle is still important. This
doesn't appear to be a strong point in C5...Of course I may still be
missing something obvious.

As I use Cubase for recording all my original material, and that's its
main purpose, I'm not going to buy a different DAW just for this midi
file stuff. I'm still open to any other suggestions........LL

On Mar 21, 8:22 pm, lancelightning <> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:51:13 +0000, lancelightning <> wrote:
> >On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 00:45:38 +0100, Jos Geluk <>
> >wrote:
>
> >>Op 23-2-2010 19:01, lancelightning schreef:
> >>> On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:12:27 +0100, Jos Geluk<>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> Op 23-2-2010 15:05, lancelightning schreef:
>
> >>>>> I have actually found a workaround in Cubase 5, but it involves an
> >>>>> awful  lot of messing about.
>
> >>>> Hey, NOW I'm curious. What kind of messing about?
>
> >>>> A bit of a cliffhanger, that
>
> >>>> Jos.
>
> >>> Jos,
>
> >>>       I suspect that the problem is caused by importing the original
> >>> midi files onto Instrument Tracks, rather than plain Midi Tracks.
> >>> Perhaps I shouldn't do that, but its what Cubase 5 does by
> >>> default..plus its nice to be able to play the files using Halion or
> >>> whatever, rather than some crappy wavetable synth. Anyway this is
> >>> where I think some of the info gets lost or corrupted...particularly
> >>> if I start manipulating stuff, adding new parts/sections or whatever.
> >>> I still would have thought that the basic midi info would be retained..
> >>> If I try to export midi at this staget, I usually find that all the
> >>> voices default back to piano, except for the drums.There's other
> >>> problems too.
>
> >>>      The workaround: Jeez, how do I explain it?!! When I've completed
> >>> work on a particular midi song, I've found that if I create the same
> >>> number of empty midi tracks and drag or copy all the info onto
> >>> those...I can then reset all the midi channel numbers and voices,
> >>> delete or mute the instrument tracks and export the midi file. Of
> >>> course I lose any vsti settings, but that's not an issue. Unlike
> >>> before, the new midi file now plays/loads up as it should. Does any of
> >>> this make sense??!!
>
> >>>      It does work, but its a horribly convoluted way of going on. I'm
> >>> hoping that Laurence might chip in on this one! I have a feeling that
> >>> I'm going about this completely the wrong way else I've missed
> >>> something obvious.
>
> >>Thanks for explaining that. I never use instrument tracks. I understand
> >>the idea behind it, but it just isn't flexible enough for me.
> >>What you explained does make sense, but have you tried this instead:
> >>enter program changes (and bank select messages, if you have them),
> >>volume and pan controllers etc. straight into the list editor? Those
> >>should be preserved at export time.
>
> >>Jos.
>
> >I'll try what you suggest, but I reckon the solution long-term is not
> >to use instrument tracks at all for this project. Rather to import
> >onto midi tracks ...I reckon that'll work....LL
>
> In conclusion to my own question...Cubase will, by default,  import
> midi files to instrument tracks using Halion if it is installed.
> That's finet if all future work on the songs is to be completed
> exclusively within Cubase. However  if we want to export a midi file
> again at any time, all the original voice and channel info is usually
> lost...you end up with just two tracks..drums and then everything else
> merged onto a single piano track. Not very useful at all. I've tried
> every option in 'Preferences' without any luck.
>
> The solution is to use a midi track template(not instrument track) and
> drag the midi file onto that...and then set up any vsti routing
> afterwards. That way the original voice and midi channel info seems to
> remain intact. It isn't ideal but it seems to work.
>
> I appreciate that the GM format and midi files in particular are
> antiquated by design, and perhaps no longer a consideration for many
> users, but nothing has really replaced them. For those of us who are
> involved with making/using midi backing tracks, the ability to import
> and export midi files without a lot of hassle is still important. This
> doesn't appear to be a strong point in C5...Of course I may still be
> missing something obvious.
>
> As I use Cubase for recording all my original material, and that's its
> main purpose, I'm not going to buy a different DAW just for this midi
> file stuff. I'm still open to any other suggestions........LL

The GM spec was meant to be playable on a multitimbral synth or synth
card, wasn't it?

Could you set up a VSTi as a ch 1-16, drums on 10, multitimbral synth?
I know I can do that with DirectWave (I haven't learned as I never
needed to) and possibly Kontakt.