First Midi Keyboard (recommendations)

[bulevardi]

Hi all,

I'm looking for my first midi keyboard.

And through the wide range of brands and types, I'm getting a bit lost.

I'm not a piano player at all, I'm actually doing just guitar.
Now started recording stuff with Magix Samplitude Music Studio, a cheap DAW for n00bs, but currently I'm okay with that, it's doing the stuff I need for the price I paid.
I now want to get some background tracks like drums, and other instruments (virtually with midi ?) like cello or synths,....
And a midi controller seems very handy in here...

On the desk I'm currently working on, I don't have lots of space at all... Alas, a 49-key is definitely not an option.
On the other hand, 25keys are probably not enough, as most musicians recommend more keys.?? but I'll probably be playing melodies with only one hand, doing a separate midi track for bassline, etc... and I don't know if switching octave is handy to play, for easy melodies or drum patterns?
So thinking about 25-37 keys...
Need a pitch wheel, transport controller, on/off button, sensitive pads,... maybe some adjustable knobs to set effects on... on not too wide or high as for dimensions.

My main concern is that most brands like to mention that they can be integrated in popular DAW's.
My DAW is not a popular one, and what if I sometimes work in Linux with midi sequencers like Rosegarden, or Ardour DAW ? Are there midi controllers that will work for these, with all adjustable functionality?

Some controllers seem to have pitch adjustment with buttons instead of wheels, that does not seem to be handy? Anyone experience?

I'm thinking about these:

Arturia Minilab: no pitch wheels but touch pad? handy? Seems to have a CPU-heavy Analog Lab software ... not recommended?
Korg Microkey: has 37 keys, although mini ones, lots of software included, but no adjustable knobs, drumpads, transport control, on/off switch,... I probably would need that functionality later on, and then I'll regret it...
M-Audio Oxygen 25 New: seems to have all the stuff I need, although only 25 keys, and it is quite thick aswel 3,7 inch...
Nektar Lx 25: has all the stuff I need, but can't find much reviews, keys would feel plastic, no semi-weight, a little more elegant than the M-audio one, comes with good software;..
IK iRIG Pro Keys: has 37 full keys, nice elegant design, not too large, but maybe misses some knobs for tweaking and pads ? I saw a review video where this one was not that sturdy built...
Samson Graphite 25, has pitch wheels, although the 37-key version has a pitch slider that does not seem to be handy. Not much good reviews
Alesis QX25, same as the M-Audio, but even a larger...

Correct me if I'm wrong, or advise me a good one you guys use... For around $ 100.

Thanks in advance !

 

[happyrat1]

I don't recommend the Oxygen 25. If it's anything like my Oxygen 49 it can't do key velocity to save its life.

Arturia controllers are nice units. They use Fatar key actions.

Otherwise I'd recommend the Alesis or an Akai MPK-25

One other worth looking at is the Korg Taktile 25.

Do your research though. I run an all Linux studio and I've been burned by non standard gear before so I know where you're coming from.

Forget about auto configuring the controller to work with Rosegarden or Ardour. Chances are you'll have to write your own config file if you can't find one already out there.

Gary

 

[jmemcse]

" I don't know if switching octave is handy to play" - doesn't work well for me on fast melodic lead lines, but can be a cool effect on shredding guitar type leads. I wouldn't buy a 25 key figuring you'll just use the octave buttons.

I was in Guitar Center and another local music store yesterday checking out 49 key controllers. My thoughts:

M-Audio - permanently lost my business with a set of reference monitors I bought my son that died after 8 weeks (the speakers not my son ) - long story.

Alesis - I made a living with a QS8 for over 12 years and loved it. The keybed on their cheap controllers bites wazoo.

Arturia - Great keybed, I liked the Launchkey better though for the style of playing I'll be using it for.

Samson - Their products have been impressing me lately, but I couldn't find one to demo yesterday.

My winner yesterday was the Novation Launchkey 49 because of the feel of the keybed. They do make a 25 key version, but it doesn't have pitch or modulation wheels.

A lot to be said for the Korg tactile Triton version though. I played one yesterday and liked the feel of the keybed, plus they sound great. I don't think you could go wrong with the Korg, but it's not exactly in your budget.

Hope that helps -
Jim

 

[happyrat1]

If he goes for the korg Taktile 25 and not the Korg Triton Taktile 25 it can be had for $199.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1025331-REG/korg_taktile25_triton_taktile_25_key_usb.html

Though from what I can see here, the big winner is the Arturia in price and features.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Keyboard-Controllers/ci/14840/N/4294550045

Gary

ps >>> Whatever you finally decide to choose, do your homework and make damned sure it has a class compliant USB MIDI interface if you want it to work with Linux. Otherwise it will end up just another interesting paperweight.

 

[bulevardi]

Alright, thanks for the info already.
I went to the local store yesterday for more info too.
Not going to buy it that fast, first do my homework as you recommended.... I ended up buying stuff before, too impulsive, that I didnt use that much because it didn't do what I wanted...
Need a good thinking about it +

The guy in the store said that the M-Audio Oxygen was not that good, and the Novation are much better quality.
When I said that the iRig didn't look that well built, he said that lots of keyboards come back with broken keys, and that Arturia Minilab has aswel not that solid keybeds (maybe he wanted to sell me the little more expensive Novation Impulse 25 by saying that).

I'm wondering if the drum pads are such a big benefit or not... maybe I can assign VST drums to the keyboard, or program the keys to make some easy drum samples (I can loop in the DAW later on). Don't know if that's quite easy.
Otherwise I could go for something like the Korg 37 key, giving me a few keys more as advantage...

make damned sure it has a class compliant USB MIDI interface if you want it to work with Linux. Otherwise it will end up just another interesting paperweight.

Ok, good to know, didn't think about that, yet. They sometimes not always mentioning this in their specs, have to look this up very well.
Well, Linux is my backup for if my Windows crashes one day. Still mainly working in a Win environment right now.

What about HUI Mackie control ? I suppose it needs to support that too? I saw in my (unpopular) DAW a HUI functionality to set controls on MIUDI hardware. For in case the midi-controller does not have DAW integration. I guess I'm ok with that.

Still thinking about the Nektar Impact 25 too... seems like the same as the Novation Impulse 25, but more compact... they didn't sell that brand in the store.

They do make a 25 key version, but it doesn't have pitch or modulation wheels.

Yes they have. The launchkey mini does'nt have these wheels. They just make too much different types to choose from.

 

[bulevardi]

In the mean time... I just discovered you can play midi with a guitar too, instead of a keyboard.
And I'm already 2 weeks looking to keyboard stuff...

Not so known yet, and probably not yet possible in linux...
I'm not allowed to post a link here, but if you google "jam origin midi guitar" you'll find what I'm talking about.

Will have to get this tested too Hmmm
Maybe doesn't look that handy as keys.... but as I already play the guitar...

 

[bulevardi]

Just tried this Guitar Midi software.
Works, but with lots of delay and resonance... as my guitar is a hollow body, the pickups record too much noise to change into MIDI.
However, it's great software.

Back to keyboards then

 

[happyrat1]

Here's ya go. The ultimate MIDI Guitar...

http://misa-digital.myshopify.com/

Gary

 

[bulevardi]

What about the Sonuus i2m midi convertor?
Seems to be very cool, should work on any guitar.

Could be nice to get some drum out of it, but cannot find any example.

 

[happyrat1]

Here's a review of the I2M.

Seems kind of lame. It responds to only one note at a time. Otherwise it will just guess at what notes to follow when you're playing a chord.

Also in the demo on the Sonuus site it seemed as if all the sounds were more or less the same with guitar tones overshadowing.

I'd call it more of a MIDI effects box than a true MIDI converter.

Real MIDI guitars and basses like the MISA or the Fishman Triple Play Wireless MIDI converter use a special pickup for each string so that each note gets properly converted.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...wireless_midi_guitar_controller_software.html

http://compumusic.com/misa-digital-misa-tri-bass-digital-guitar-i4777809.htm

There's a reason why the Sonuus sells for $99 while the Fishman sells for $299 and the Misa sells for $749.

Varying degrees of precision and output quality show as usual, ya get what ya pay for.

Gary

PS... Personally I prefer keys to guitars. MUCH easier on my delicate little pinkies

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, I seriously doubt any of the MIDI guitar solutions, from the Sonuus to the Fishman to the Misa work with Linux.

Also useless to me

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

Son of a gun. I just read a review on the Fishman. it IS USB MIDI Class compliant so it WILL work with a Linux box!!!

http://www.gizmag.com/review-fishman-tripleplay/32356/

However, getting the bundled software to run under Wine will still probably be hit or miss.

But there are plenty of Linux MIDI apps out there to choose from including DAWs, VSTis, Drum Sequencers and whatnot...

It's almost enough to tempt me to buy a guitar and take a few lessons

Gary

 

[bulevardi]

The i2m should be usb midi class compliant too.

Still considering...

 

[bulevardi]

Btw, yesterday evening, I played a bit on a toy keyboard that my wife had from her childhood.
It's a Casio, has 37 keys... And I think that indeed it won't do with 25 keys, 37 will for the melodies I tried....
Although I cannot play piano... making melodies on a guitar would be much more handy for me, and I can transcribe what I played to tabs immediately.

What about that Korg MicroKey 37
(I should forget about drum pads... will do this with the keys....? )

 

[happyrat1]

37 keys is a bastard oddball size. While it may work for you you will have to narrow down your selection.

At this point i think we've given all the information we're capable of and you'll just have to bite the bullet and make a decision on your own...

Gary

 

[Jim Arabajoglou]

I'd go with Nectar Lx 25

 

[happyrat1]

Actually as long as we're all being honest here, I seriously think 49 keys is the minimum number of notes you need to be able to play an actual song.

Space requirements be damned, you REALLY NEED 4 octaves man.

25 or 37 keys will allow you to scratch out a few notes here and there but you'll really be hard pressed to create anything musical with 25 notes.

You'll spend more time whacking the octave shift buttons than actually playing the damned thing.

Truth be told, if you ask any self respecting keyboardist he will tell you he needs at least 61 keys for any sort of performance.

Like I said at the beginning, I have a 49 key Oxygen that I keep plugged into my living room laptop for when I'm watching TV and want to noodle out a tune, but if that were my only keyboard I'd shoot myself in both hands and get an organ grinder and a monkey instead

37 keys is basically what you'll find on a standard accordion and the only people I know who've ever had a hit with a squeeze box are Weird Al Yankovic and Bobby Vinton

Then again even an accordion has more range because aside from the 3 octave keyboard you also have all the bass chords on the button side.

General rule of thumb is 61 keys minimum for pop music and 88 for classical.

If you want our honest advice, then stretch your budget and your playing space and at least make room for a 49 Key Akai or Alesis or Novation or Korg.

The Nektar and the Samson controllers may be good or they may be crap, but they seriously don't have enough of a track record for anyone to judge. The M-Audio controllers are definitely crap unless you spring for the higher end Axiom models and even those have some iffy reviews.

If all you want to do is output MIDI patterns for drums and rhythms then bite the bullet and get the Fishman. It definitely CAN do drums and that's demoed in the video I posted.

It really boils down to whether or not you want to learn a new instrument.

Just like learning on a $50 Walmart guitar will discourage anyone from going further, cheaping out on the keyboard will have the same effect on a new student.

Perhaps what you should be looking at instead of low budget controllers is a full blown low end Yamaha or Casio Keyboard like the CTK-3200 which can be had for $115 on Amazon and has 400 built in musical voices, 150 Drum Rhythms and Styles and has a USB MIDI Class compliant interface that will work with Linux. Yamahas use proprietary interfaces that don't play nicely with Linux though so be forewarned.

http://www.amazon.com/Casio-CTK-3200-Sensitive-Personal-Keyboard/dp/B007T8HVLW

Anyway, a Casio CTK will work in a pinch as a controller, just turn off the internal voices and plug into your computer and Bob's yer uncle. All of a sudden you have a fully functional MIDI controller that you can use to sequence your soft synths with.

And it has the industry STANDARD 61 Keys. No dicking around with Octave shifts unless you are really trying to get an earthy bass or a truly shrill choir effect.

Plus the best part is it will run on batteries and it will work anywhere, anytime WITHOUT a computer so you can practice your scales and chords whilst you're upon the crapper should you so desire

Frankly if I was in the market and someone offered me a "dumb" 25 Key controller for $150 or a fully fledged 5 Octave synthesizer for $115 I wouldn't hesitate to pick up the Casio.

30 years ago it would have cost at least $1200 to buy an equivalent keyboard that still wouldn't be as versatile.

Just some food for thought....

Gary

 

[bulevardi]

At this point i think we've given all the information we're capable of and you'll just have to bite the bullet and make a decision on your own...

That's true.
The first forum where I actually GET responses. And decent ones.

Well, as for 25 keys (with drumpads), that Nektar seems the most interesting to me (better dimentions then the Novation which has the same stuff onboard). Altough, not sold in the local store, would have to buy via internet store.
Though... a keyboard takes all the space even a 25 keys one, or actually the only space available on my desk that's still free to put a book, or to write something on paper... I actually need a larger desk, maybe in future, then I'd have plenty of space for a keyboard.

BUT, I'm now waaaay too curious for such a midi converter for guitar.
The Fishman could be great, but for the price of that I could buy 3 keyboards.
The Sonuus G2m Version 2, would do actually great work as seen in demo's. Almost no latency, no glitches or other problems... And someone is selling it here second hand for $ 50, around 1 hour from my town.
I guess I'm going to take the risk to buy that first and test this out.
It's just to output some background sounds, small melodies... And currently I'm running out of time to learn a new instrument (I'm dealing here with 2 baby kids that take my time).
If it's not working out that well... I can still go for a keyboard later on.

I'll let you know if it's working out great, and I'll post a demo when I've got something to show off

 

[truthadjustr]

I test play, and indeed, 49 keys is the absolute minimum to be able to play popular songs. I will go for 49 keys. The playability difference from 37 to 49 is very huge. However, the playability difference from 49 to 61 is almost none for the usual pop songs, musics. However, where the playability experience from 49 to 61 keys will manifests in classical piano music.