Hi, Something strange is happenning. I record a piano part in cabase SX1 using a Yamaha electronic piano (CP33) along with the sustain pedal that was given with it. CC64 (sustain)messages should be sent as "on" or "off" (zero or 127, I guess). I just discovered that my pedal was actually sending 128 different values according to the position of my foot. It means that it acts like an expression pedal. The consequence is that cubase records several messages each time I move my foot. This is not usefull at all. How would you deal with this? There is no switch on my pedal (like sustain/expression) and it is plugged in the right hole of my CP33. Thx for your help. Huey
"Hueyduck" <> wrote in message news:4a57741b$0$3584$... > Hi, > > Something strange is happenning. > I record a piano part in cabase SX1 using a Yamaha electronic piano (CP33) > along with the sustain pedal that was given with it. > > CC64 (sustain)messages should be sent as "on" or "off" (zero or 127, I > guess). > I just discovered that my pedal was actually sending 128 different values > according to the position of my foot. It means that it acts like an > expression pedal. The consequence is that cubase records several messages > each time I move my foot. > This is not usefull at all. > > How would you deal with this? > There is no switch on my pedal (like sustain/expression) and it is plugged > in the right hole of my CP33. > > Thx for your help. > Check your assigned CC numbers. One of them may have been changed. Find that big MIDI CC chart, I've posted a link to it somewhere in this group.
SODDI a écrit : > > "Hueyduck" <> wrote in message > news:4a57741b$0$3584$... >> Hi, >> >> Something strange is happenning. >> I record a piano part in cabase SX1 using a Yamaha electronic piano >> (CP33) along with the sustain pedal that was given with it. >> >> CC64 (sustain)messages should be sent as "on" or "off" (zero or 127, I >> guess). >> I just discovered that my pedal was actually sending 128 different >> values according to the position of my foot. It means that it acts >> like an expression pedal. The consequence is that cubase records >> several messages each time I move my foot. >> This is not usefull at all. >> >> How would you deal with this? >> There is no switch on my pedal (like sustain/expression) and it is >> plugged in the right hole of my CP33. >> >> Thx for your help. >> > > Check your assigned CC numbers. One of them may have been changed. > Thx for your answer. I have to be more precise , I think. When I press my "sustain pedal", connected to my e-piano, Cubase clearly receives 128 different values according to the position of my foot. I can see it in the event list. First question: how could a sustain pedal transmit more than two values? Maybe it is normal in "high quality looking" pedals (those who actually look like piano pedals). Let's says I just pressed the pedal , and the event list shows that I recorded values as follow: 0-16-40-72-104-127. *but*, cubase records and plays this signal as "CC 64" ("sustain", so that's normal), so when I open the piano roll, I can see that "cc64" shows only "0" or "127" drawn values , but more often than necessary. As if I had pressed the pedal several times in a fraction of a second. > Find that big MIDI CC chart, I've posted a link to it somewhere in this > group. I googled the group, but haven't found it yet. Is this chart something I have to find within cubase settings? After I have explained more correctly my problem, do you feel that this chart could still be any help? Thx again. Huey
Hueyduck wrote: > SODDI a écrit : >> >> "Hueyduck" <> wrote in message >> news:4a57741b$0$3584$... >>> Hi, >>> >>> Something strange is happenning. >>> I record a piano part in cabase SX1 using a Yamaha electronic piano >>> (CP33) along with the sustain pedal that was given with it. >>> >>> CC64 (sustain)messages should be sent as "on" or "off" (zero or 127, >>> I guess). >>> I just discovered that my pedal was actually sending 128 different >>> values according to the position of my foot. It means that it acts >>> like an expression pedal. The consequence is that cubase records >>> several messages each time I move my foot. >>> This is not usefull at all. >>> >>> How would you deal with this? >>> There is no switch on my pedal (like sustain/expression) and it is >>> plugged in the right hole of my CP33. >>> >>> Thx for your help. >>> >> >> Check your assigned CC numbers. One of them may have been changed. >> > > > Thx for your answer. > I have to be more precise , I think. > > When I press my "sustain pedal", connected to my e-piano, > Cubase clearly receives 128 different values according to the position > of my foot. I can see it in the event list. First question: how could a > sustain pedal transmit more than two values? Maybe it is normal in "high > quality looking" pedals (those who actually look like piano pedals). > Let's says I just pressed the pedal , and the event list shows that I > recorded values as follow: 0-16-40-72-104-127. > > *but*, cubase records and plays this signal as "CC 64" ("sustain", so > that's normal), so when I open the piano roll, I can see that "cc64" > shows only "0" or "127" drawn values , but more often than necessary. As > if I had pressed the pedal several times in a fraction of a second. > >> Find that big MIDI CC chart, I've posted a link to it somewhere in this >> group. > > I googled the group, but haven't found it yet. > Is this chart something I have to find within cubase settings? > After I have explained more correctly my problem, do you feel that this > chart could still be any help? > > Thx again. > > Huey You could use the logical editor to set the values to either 0 or 127 depending on a threshold value. Then you can use 'remove duplicates' to eliminate the extra CC's. Otherwise, for recording, you could use the Input Transformer to modify the incoming CC's to be one of two values (0 or 127).
"Hueyduck" <> wrote in message news:4a59abd4$0$27782$... > SODDI a écrit : >> >> "Hueyduck" <> wrote in message >> news:4a57741b$0$3584$... >>> Hi, >>> >>> Something strange is happenning. >>> I record a piano part in cabase SX1 using a Yamaha electronic piano >>> (CP33) along with the sustain pedal that was given with it. >>> >>> CC64 (sustain)messages should be sent as "on" or "off" (zero or 127, I >>> guess). >>> I just discovered that my pedal was actually sending 128 different >>> values according to the position of my foot. It means that it acts like >>> an expression pedal. The consequence is that cubase records several >>> messages each time I move my foot. >>> This is not usefull at all. >>> >>> How would you deal with this? >>> There is no switch on my pedal (like sustain/expression) and it is >>> plugged in the right hole of my CP33. >>> >>> Thx for your help. >>> >> >> Check your assigned CC numbers. One of them may have been changed. >> > > > Thx for your answer. > I have to be more precise , I think. > > When I press my "sustain pedal", connected to my e-piano, > Cubase clearly receives 128 different values according to the position of > my foot. I can see it in the event list. First question: how could a > sustain pedal transmit more than two values? Maybe it is normal in "high > quality looking" pedals (those who actually look like piano pedals). > Let's says I just pressed the pedal , and the event list shows that I > recorded values as follow: 0-16-40-72-104-127. > > *but*, cubase records and plays this signal as "CC 64" ("sustain", so > that's normal), so when I open the piano roll, I can see that "cc64" shows > only "0" or "127" drawn values , but more often than necessary. As if I > had pressed the pedal several times in a fraction of a second. > > > Find that big MIDI CC chart, I've posted a link to it somewhere in this > > group. > > I googled the group, but haven't found it yet. > Is this chart something I have to find within cubase settings? > After I have explained more correctly my problem, do you feel that this > chart could still be any help? > Here: http://www.midi.org/techspecs/gm.php and here (table 3): http://www.midi.org/techspecs/midimessages.php
"Hueyduck" <> wrote in message news:4a59abd4$0$27782$... > SODDI a écrit : >> >> "Hueyduck" <> wrote in message >> news:4a57741b$0$3584$... >>> Hi, >>> >>> Something strange is happenning. >>> I record a piano part in cabase SX1 using a Yamaha electronic piano >>> (CP33) along with the sustain pedal that was given with it. >>> >>> CC64 (sustain)messages should be sent as "on" or "off" (zero or 127, I >>> guess). >>> I just discovered that my pedal was actually sending 128 different >>> values according to the position of my foot. It means that it acts like >>> an expression pedal. The consequence is that cubase records several >>> messages each time I move my foot. >>> This is not usefull at all. >>> >>> How would you deal with this? >>> There is no switch on my pedal (like sustain/expression) and it is >>> plugged in the right hole of my CP33. >>> >>> Thx for your help. >>> >> >> Check your assigned CC numbers. One of them may have been changed. >> > > > Thx for your answer. > I have to be more precise , I think. > > When I press my "sustain pedal", connected to my e-piano, > Cubase clearly receives 128 different values according to the position of > my foot. I can see it in the event list. First question: how could a > sustain pedal transmit more than two values? Maybe it is normal in "high > quality looking" pedals (those who actually look like piano pedals). > Let's says I just pressed the pedal , and the event list shows that I > recorded values as follow: 0-16-40-72-104-127. > > *but*, cubase records and plays this signal as "CC 64" ("sustain", so > that's normal), so when I open the piano roll, I can see that "cc64" shows > only "0" or "127" drawn values , but more often than necessary. As if I > had pressed the pedal several times in a fraction of a second. > > > Find that big MIDI CC chart, I've posted a link to it somewhere in this > > group. > > I googled the group, but haven't found it yet. > Is this chart something I have to find within cubase settings? > After I have explained more correctly my problem, do you feel that this > chart could still be any help? > > Thx again. > > Huey According to the MIDI CC spec, CC 64 is Damper Pedal, with a (value) 63 off, 64 on. Try controller 66.
SODDI a écrit : > > > According to the MIDI CC spec, CC 64 is Damper Pedal, with a (value) 63 > off, 64 on. > > Try controller 66. Thank you for the links to the charts. As for the CC number , I have no doubt about the fact that #64 is the goosd number. What I call, maybe improperly, the "sustain pedal" is what the chart calls "hold pedal". Huey
Hueyduck schreef: > Hi, > > Something strange is happenning. > I record a piano part in cabase SX1 using a Yamaha electronic piano > (CP33) along with the sustain pedal that was given with it. > > CC64 (sustain)messages should be sent as "on" or "off" (zero or 127, I > guess). > I just discovered that my pedal was actually sending 128 different > values according to the position of my foot. It means that it acts like > an expression pedal. The consequence is that cubase records several > messages each time I move my foot. > This is not usefull at all. > > How would you deal with this? > There is no switch on my pedal (like sustain/expression) and it is > plugged in the right hole of my CP33. In addition to what others have said, the solution may actually be very simple. The pedal SHOULD only send values 0 and 127. On my pedal, there is a hardware switch that can be set to "Continuous" and "Switch". For sustain, I set it to "Switch". For volume etc. you would want it set to "Continuous". It is a Roland pedal, I can't find a model number. HTH Jos.
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:56:05 +0200, Jos Geluk <> wrote: >> Something strange is happenning. >> I record a piano part in cabase SX1 using a Yamaha electronic piano >> (CP33) along with the sustain pedal that was given with it. >> >> CC64 (sustain)messages should be sent as "on" or "off" (zero or 127, I >> guess). >> I just discovered that my pedal was actually sending 128 different >> values according to the position of my foot. It means that it acts like >> an expression pedal. The consequence is that cubase records several >> messages each time I move my foot. >> This is not usefull at all. >> >> How would you deal with this? >> There is no switch on my pedal (like sustain/expression) and it is >> plugged in the right hole of my CP33. > >In addition to what others have said, the solution may actually be very >simple. The pedal SHOULD only send values 0 and 127. On my pedal, there >is a hardware switch that can be set to "Continuous" and "Switch". For >sustain, I set it to "Switch". For volume etc. you would want it set to >"Continuous". It is a Roland pedal, I can't find a model number. A glance at the online manual reveals that the CP33 is supplied with a FC3 pedal which produces continuous data. This enables "half-pedaling" effects. Good for realistic piano playing with the internal sounds, less useful as a MIDI sustain controller. We are also told a FC4 or FC5 pedal may be used instead. These are simple on/off switches. Presumably they would trigger the simple Controller 64 data most instruments expect. You don't have to buy the Yamaha model - any normally-closed footswitch will do. The OP says the continuous data is "not useful at all". Is there a particular instrument that is responding badly to the continuous data? I think it is fairly standard that response to Controller 64 will be Off for values 0-64, On for 65-127. This may not be a practical problem at all. CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
Jos Geluk a écrit : >> How would you deal with this? >> There is no switch on my pedal (like sustain/expression) and it is >> plugged in the right hole of my CP33. > > In addition to what others have said, the solution may actually be very > simple. The pedal SHOULD only send values 0 and 127. On my pedal, there > is a hardware switch that can be set to "Continuous" and "Switch". For > sustain, I set it to "Switch". For volume etc. you would want it set to > "Continuous". It is a Roland pedal, I can't find a model number. Thanks JPs. Like I said , there is no switch on my pedal, unluckily. But your are right saying that my problem comes from the pedal.
Laurence Payne a écrit : > A glance at the online manual reveals that the CP33 is supplied with a > FC3 pedal which produces continuous data. This enables > "half-pedaling" effects. Good for realistic piano playing with the > internal sounds, less useful as a MIDI sustain controller. - Of course, there are never any info about the accessories in the manuals, usually. I did'nt bother look at the CP33 manual. So I'm a bit ashamed You know why I did'nt bother? because when I bought this e-piano, I spent over 1500 euros thought I clearly stated that I was aiming at something like 1000 euro max. When I was about to make up my mind, the seller told me he could throw a little bonus with the keyboard. I asked for an expression pedal and (read carefully): the boss of the shop refused! I could have anyhting that would not be useful to me, anyhting but an expression pedal. I said " alright, then, deal with your kharma the way you want ..." But the one thing I was sure of is that I hadn't got an expression pedal. That will teach me not to believe humans but to... read my manuals. > > We are also told a FC4 or FC5 pedal may be used instead. These are > simple on/off switches. Presumably they would trigger the simple > Controller 64 data most instruments expect. You don't have to buy > the Yamaha model - any normally-closed footswitch will do. - Do you know Murphy's law? I had been having a simple switch for 7 years until I gave it a few weeks ago to a friend of mine who is learning chords on his small keyboard. I showed him some chords on my piano and gave him my old switch pedal so that he could train at his home. sh... - > > The OP says the continuous data is "not useful at all". Is there a > particular instrument that is responding badly to the continuous data? > I think it is fairly standard that response to Controller 64 will be > Off for values 0-64, On for 65-127. This may not be a practical > problem at all. It is too when you have to edit the controller in a piano take Erasing a simple on-off signal is easy, but when there are dozens of messages , it gets difficult to be precise enough when erasing cc64. Anyway, thanks for finding this piece of info. Huey
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:52:28 +0200, Hueyduck <> wrote: >> The OP says the continuous data is "not useful at all". Is there a >> particular instrument that is responding badly to the continuous data? >> I think it is fairly standard that response to Controller 64 will be >> Off for values 0-64, On for 65-127. This may not be a practical >> problem at all. > >It is too when you have to edit the controller in a piano take >Erasing a simple on-off signal is easy, but when there are dozens of >messages , it gets difficult to be precise enough when erasing cc64. I'm thinking of a Logical Edit preset to delete all values of Controller 64 other than 64 and 65 ? Or maybe an input filter to do the same? But probably a new footswitch is the real answer. CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
Laurence Payne a écrit : > I'm thinking of a Logical Edit preset to delete all values of > Controller 64 other than 64 and 65 ? Or maybe an input filter to do > the same? - I think I'm going to work on an inpuit filter (I don't know yet how to do this, but I will read my manual, this time ;-) - > > But probably a new footswitch is the real answer. - Exactly. I wanted an expression pedal: I already have it. So, why bother: I'll just get a nice sustain pedal and then I'lll have the best of 2 world. All for the best, then Huey PS: main thing to extract from this whole thread: the Yamaha CP33 stage piano is delivered with an *expresssion* pedal, not a simple on/off sustain pedal. Don't ask for an expression pedal as bonus gift: you already have it ;-)
On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:32:26 +0200, Hueyduck <> wrote: >PS: main thing to extract from this whole thread: the Yamaha CP33 >stage piano is delivered with an *expresssion* pedal, not a simple >on/off sustain pedal. Don't ask for an expression pedal as bonus gift: >you already have it ;-) Well, sort of. An expression pedal would have a longer throw, and wouldn't be spring loaded. This one would be most inconvenient as a volume control. CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
Laurence Payne schreef: > On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:32:26 +0200, Hueyduck <> > wrote: > >> PS: main thing to extract from this whole thread: the Yamaha CP33 >> stage piano is delivered with an *expresssion* pedal, not a simple >> on/off sustain pedal. Don't ask for an expression pedal as bonus gift: >> you already have it ;-) > > Well, sort of. An expression pedal would have a longer throw, and > wouldn't be spring loaded. This one would be most inconvenient as a > volume control. Not always - I have played imitation-accordion on a keyboard using the pedal as a volume control. It takes some practicing, but you can emulate the swelling of the tone that way pretty well, the typical ebb and flow of the accordion. And for that it needs to be in the zero position after release. Jos. -- Ardis Park Music www.ardispark.nl
