So since I recently bought an Asus EN9800GT video card, which has an HDMI out, and I'm using a 32" 1080p HDTV as my monitor, I decided to pop for an HDMI cable to replace the VGA cable I was connecting through. WOW what a freeking night and day difference! I was bugged by the little bit of video ringing over VGA, which made text slightly fuzzy. Now everything is freeking razor sharp, and text is squeeky clean on the screen. Playing HiDef video from my HTPC looks great too. It was totally worth the $10 including shipping from Newegg, and now I have the VGA cable at the bottom center of my desk, where I can easily plug other computers into my big monitor when I'm diagnosing them. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
I was going to do the same thing with this new system but I didn't know how much of a difference it would make. I'll have to try it now. I was in future shop and a guy tried to tell me there was a difference if you used the fancy gold plated expensive cable. I wasn't buying it, though it did make me question whether there could be a difference in cables. Peter "Glennbo" <> wrote in message news:Xns9D51ED1774F35BrownShoesDontMakeIt@69.16.185.247... > > So since I recently bought an Asus EN9800GT video card, which has an HDMI > out, and I'm using a 32" 1080p HDTV as my monitor, I decided to pop for an > HDMI cable to replace the VGA cable I was connecting through. WOW what a > freeking night and day difference! I was bugged by the little bit of > video > ringing over VGA, which made text slightly fuzzy. Now everything is > freeking razor sharp, and text is squeeky clean on the screen. Playing > HiDef video from my HTPC looks great too. It was totally worth the $10 > including shipping from Newegg, and now I have the VGA cable at the bottom > center of my desk, where I can easily plug other computers into my big > monitor when I'm diagnosing them. > > -- > Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email > ________ __ > / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ > / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ > / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / > \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo > Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits > Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
The killer robot "Peter Roussy" <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... >> So since I recently bought an Asus EN9800GT video card, which has an >> HDMI out, and I'm using a 32" 1080p HDTV as my monitor, I decided to >> pop for an HDMI cable to replace the VGA cable I was connecting >> through. WOW what a freeking night and day difference! I was bugged >> by the little bit of video >> ringing over VGA, which made text slightly fuzzy. Now everything is >> freeking razor sharp, and text is squeeky clean on the screen. >> Playing HiDef video from my HTPC looks great too. It was totally >> worth the $10 including shipping from Newegg, and now I have the VGA >> cable at the bottom center of my desk, where I can easily plug other >> computers into my big monitor when I'm diagnosing them. > I was going to do the same thing with this new system but I didn't > know how much of a difference it would make. I'll have to try it now. > I was in future shop and a guy tried to tell me there was a difference > if you used the fancy gold plated expensive cable. I wasn't buying it, > though it did make me question whether there could be a difference in > cables. The cable I bought was five bucks from Newegg, and the shipping was almost another five, but at just under ten bucks, it still beat the $30 local price, and it has gold plated ends. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
Well, There were alot of tests done on that, and the 4 dollar monoprice HDMI spec'ed out identical to the 100 dollar monster cable. It was funny, when I was looking at TV's last month, I mentioned that I was looking for more HDMI inputs, and the salesman tells me "save yourself some money and buy them online, you'll save a ton of money and our rep came in and showed us that there is no difference". I already knew this, but sure built up some confidence in his knowledge! "Peter Roussy" <> wrote in message news:Ubzun.1020$Z6.459@edtnps82... >I was going to do the same thing with this new system but I didn't know how >much of a difference it would make. I'll have to try it now. I was in >future shop and a guy tried to tell me there was a difference if you used >the fancy gold plated expensive cable. I wasn't buying it, though it did >make me question whether there could be a difference in cables. > > Peter
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 04:58:28 GMT, "Peter Roussy" <> wrote: > I was going to do the same thing with this new system but I didn't know how > much of a difference it would make. I'll have to try it now. I was in future > shop and a guy tried to tell me there was a difference if you used the fancy > gold plated expensive cable. I wasn't buying it, though it did make me > question whether there could be a difference in cables. > Peter > "Glennbo" <> wrote in message > news:Xns9D51ED1774F35BrownShoesDontMakeIt@69.16.185.247... > > > > So since I recently bought an Asus EN9800GT video card, which has an HDMI > > out, and I'm using a 32" 1080p HDTV as my monitor, I decided to pop for an > > HDMI cable to replace the VGA cable I was connecting through. WOW what a > > freeking night and day difference! I was bugged by the little bit of > > video > > ringing over VGA, which made text slightly fuzzy. Now everything is > > freeking razor sharp, and text is squeeky clean on the screen. Playing > > HiDef video from my HTPC looks great too. It was totally worth the $10 > > including shipping from Newegg, and now I have the VGA cable at the bottom > > center of my desk, where I can easily plug other computers into my big > > monitor when I'm diagnosing them. > > > > -- > > Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email > > ________ __ > > / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ > > / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ > > / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / > > \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo > > Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits > > Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms I have my nvidia 8800GT running via dvi-to-hdmi cable to my 40" TV; dunno what brand but it's not fancy; don't even think it's gold plated. Looks great. Maybe if I was a pro videographer I'd notice something.
The killer robot "Bob Donald" <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > Well, There were alot of tests done on that, and the 4 dollar > monoprice HDMI spec'ed out identical to the 100 dollar monster cable. > It was funny, when I was looking at TV's last month, I mentioned that > I was looking for more HDMI inputs, and the salesman tells me "save > yourself some money and buy them online, you'll save a ton of money > and our rep came in and showed us that there is no difference". I > already knew this, but sure built up some confidence in his knowledge! > The five dollar cable I got was made quite well, and was heavier duty than I even expected for the price. >>I was going to do the same thing with this new system but I didn't >>know how much of a difference it would make. I'll have to try it now. >>I was in future shop and a guy tried to tell me there was a difference >>if you used the fancy gold plated expensive cable. I wasn't buying it, >>though it did make me question whether there could be a difference in >>cables. >> -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
The killer robot Phoenix <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > I have my nvidia 8800GT running via dvi-to-hdmi cable to my 40" TV; > dunno what brand but it's not fancy; don't even think it's gold > plated. Looks great. Maybe if I was a pro videographer I'd notice > something. DVI and HDMI are pretty much the same thing, except DVI has no audio on the same cable. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
Good to know. "Glennbo" <> wrote in message news:Xns9D5271FD34FEABrownShoesDontMakeIt@188.40.43.245... > The killer robot Phoenix <> grabbed the controls of the > spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > >> I have my nvidia 8800GT running via dvi-to-hdmi cable to my 40" TV; >> dunno what brand but it's not fancy; don't even think it's gold >> plated. Looks great. Maybe if I was a pro videographer I'd notice >> something. > > DVI and HDMI are pretty much the same thing, except DVI has no audio on > the > same cable. > > -- > Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email > ________ __ > / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ > / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ > / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / > \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo > Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits > Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
This just came in the door from Mwave this morning so I just ordered it. $5.99 with free shipping. http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch_v3.asp?px=MP&scriteria=SA02273 They must have been listening. P "Glennbo" <> wrote in message news:Xns9D5271FD34FEABrownShoesDontMakeIt@188.40.43.245... > The killer robot Phoenix <> grabbed the controls of the > spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > >> I have my nvidia 8800GT running via dvi-to-hdmi cable to my 40" TV; >> dunno what brand but it's not fancy; don't even think it's gold >> plated. Looks great. Maybe if I was a pro videographer I'd notice >> something. > > DVI and HDMI are pretty much the same thing, except DVI has no audio on > the > same cable. > > -- > Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email > ________ __ > / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ > / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ > / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / > \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo > Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits > Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
What resolution are you using? Do you believe the 1080p is a lot better than 720p? I'm getting 1360 x 768 from a 720. I really like Nvidia. You can make multiple desktops with different resolutions and do a lot of other cool things, as you already know. I'm using a 22" Samsung HDTV but I've got a Sanyo 26" in the other room that I could switch but maybe I'll purchase a 1080i. 32" seems big but my eyes aren't what they used to be and there are two 19" monitors, one on each side of the 22" so maybe a 32" would be good. Did you pay about $100 for your video card? Is yours a EN9800GT or a EN9800GT+ ? I'm not sure of a difference except the price. "Glennbo" <> wrote in message news:Xns9D51ED1774F35BrownShoesDontMakeIt@69.16.185.247... > > So since I recently bought an Asus EN9800GT video card, which has an HDMI > out, and I'm using a 32" 1080p HDTV as my monitor, I decided to pop for an > HDMI cable to replace the VGA cable I was connecting through. WOW what a > freeking night and day difference! I was bugged by the little bit of > video > ringing over VGA, which made text slightly fuzzy. Now everything is > freeking razor sharp, and text is squeeky clean on the screen. Playing > HiDef video from my HTPC looks great too. It was totally worth the $10 > including shipping from Newegg, and now I have the VGA cable at the bottom > center of my desk, where I can easily plug other computers into my big > monitor when I'm diagnosing them. > > -- > Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email > ________ __ > / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ > / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ > / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / > \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo > Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits > Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 16:13:03 +0000 (UTC), Glennbo <> wrote: > The killer robot Phoenix <> grabbed the controls of the > spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > > I have my nvidia 8800GT running via dvi-to-hdmi cable to my 40" TV; > > dunno what brand but it's not fancy; don't even think it's gold > > plated. Looks great. Maybe if I was a pro videographer I'd notice > > something. > DVI and HDMI are pretty much the same thing, except DVI has no audio on the > same cable. > -- > Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email > ________ __ > / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ > / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ > / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / > \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo > Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits > Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms That makes sense; anyway what I meant was it's a no -frills cable and the quality's fine. I do wish I had HDMI out on my video card now that I have the new TV, but that will have to wait.
The killer robot "Peter Roussy" <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > This just came in the door from Mwave this morning so I just ordered it. > $5.99 with free shipping. > > http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch_v3.asp?px=MP&scriteria=SA02273 > > They must have been listening. It's HDMI cable week! -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
The killer robot Phoenix <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > That makes sense; anyway what I meant was it's a no -frills cable and > the quality's fine. Wire is wire IMO for the most part. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
The killer robot "gray asphalt" <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > What resolution are you using? Do you believe the 1080p > is a lot better than 720p? I'm getting 1360 x 768 from a 720. I'm running 1920x1080, and I think it's better because I can put a whole lot more tracks on screen at once. > I really like Nvidia. You can make multiple desktops with > different resolutions and do a lot of other cool things, as > you already know. I'm using a 22" Samsung HDTV but I've > got a Sanyo 26" in the other room that I could switch but > maybe I'll purchase a 1080i. 32" seems big but my eyes > aren't what they used to be and there are two 19" monitors, You get used to 32" real fast. I use a 22" at work, and I miss my big monitor there. > one on each side of the 22" so maybe a 32" would be good. > Did you pay about $100 for your video card? Is yours a > EN9800GT or a EN9800GT+ ? I'm not sure of a difference > except the price. It was just under $100, and there was a $20 rebate. It's this one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121352&Tpk=EN9800GT -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:38:06 +0000 (UTC), Glennbo <> wrote: > The killer robot "gray asphalt" <> grabbed the > controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > > What resolution are you using? Do you believe the 1080p > > is a lot better than 720p? I'm getting 1360 x 768 from a 720. > I'm running 1920x1080, and I think it's better because I can put > a whole lot more tracks on screen at once. > > I really like Nvidia. You can make multiple desktops with > > different resolutions and do a lot of other cool things, as > > you already know. I'm using a 22" Samsung HDTV but I've > > got a Sanyo 26" in the other room that I could switch but > > maybe I'll purchase a 1080i. 32" seems big but my eyes > > aren't what they used to be and there are two 19" monitors, > You get used to 32" real fast. I use a 22" at work, and I > miss my big monitor there. > > one on each side of the 22" so maybe a 32" would be good. > > Did you pay about $100 for your video card? Is yours a > > EN9800GT or a EN9800GT+ ? I'm not sure of a difference > > except the price. > It was just under $100, and there was a $20 rebate. It's > this one. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121352&Tpk=EN9 800GT > -- > Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email > ________ __ > / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ > / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ > / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / > \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo > Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits > Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms The only problem with my TV as monitor is that it's at right angles to where my DAW is. Sometimes I think about trying a wireless mouse /keyboard combo but aren't they problematic with audio apps?
In news:-september.org the killer robot Phoenix <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > The only problem with my TV as monitor is that it's at right angles > to where my DAW is. Sometimes I think about trying a wireless mouse > /keyboard combo but aren't they problematic with audio apps? I use both a wired mouse and keyboard, but I also use an RF based remote control, when I'm recording. I would think wireless keyboard and mouse would be fine with a DAW. I've heard of people using them for vocal isolation booths. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
<Now everything is freeking razor sharp, and text is squeeky clean on the screen> I just hooked up my new monitor to the DAW with an HDMI out on the video card, and I couldn't agree more. Much clearer than the SVIDEO connection was. -- Regards, Ted Perlman www.tedperlman.com www.myspace.com/tedperlman www.facebook.com/ted.perlman
The killer robot "Ted Perlman" <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > <Now everything is freeking razor sharp, and text is squeeky clean on > the screen> > > I just hooked up my new monitor to the DAW with an HDMI out on the > video card, and I couldn't agree more. Much clearer than the SVIDEO > connection was. That should be a major jump in improvement. I went from VGA (analog 1920x1080) to HDMI (digital 1920x1080). S-Video has a res of 720x480, so if you are now running the native res of the monitor, you not only went from analog to digital, but also made a significant increase in resolution. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
One thing different about my workstation is that I mounted a sliding drawer under my piano, Yamaha DGX-505. So it pulls out when I want to do computer stuff, actually it stays out almost all of the time because it doesn't get in the way of the keyboard ... the digital piano is my computer stand, sort of. The monitors are monted on 3/4" pipe that I had welded together. It made a huge difference to my health when my chiropractor told me to put them at eye level, the bottom of the screen is at that height. The sliders sold at Home Depot and Lowe's are real strong and easy to install. Now if I can find a way to a/c my garage ... "Phoenix" <> wrote in message news:-september.org... > On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:38:06 +0000 (UTC), Glennbo > <> wrote: >> The killer robot "gray asphalt" <> grabbed the >> controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these > buttons... > >> > What resolution are you using? Do you believe the 1080p >> > is a lot better than 720p? I'm getting 1360 x 768 from a 720. > > >> I'm running 1920x1080, and I think it's better because I can put >> a whole lot more tracks on screen at once. > > >> > I really like Nvidia. You can make multiple desktops with >> > different resolutions and do a lot of other cool things, as >> > you already know. I'm using a 22" Samsung HDTV but I've >> > got a Sanyo 26" in the other room that I could switch but >> > maybe I'll purchase a 1080i. 32" seems big but my eyes >> > aren't what they used to be and there are two 19" monitors, > > >> You get used to 32" real fast. I use a 22" at work, and I miss my big >> monitor there. > > >> > one on each side of the 22" so maybe a 32" would be good. >> > Did you pay about $100 for your video card? Is yours a >> > EN9800GT or a EN9800GT+ ? I'm not sure of a difference >> > except the price. > > >> It was just under $100, and there was a $20 rebate. It's this one. > > >> > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121352&Tpk=EN9 > 800GT > > >> -- >> Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email >> ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ >> / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ >> / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / >> \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo >> Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits >> Hear My Music > http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms > > The only problem with my TV as monitor is that it's at right angles to > where my DAW is. Sometimes I think about trying a wireless mouse /keyboard > combo but aren't they problematic with audio apps?
