Midi notes cut by the precedent same note

Discussion in 'alt.steinberg.cubase' started by Hueyduck, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. Hueyduck

    Hueyduck Guest

    Hi everyone,

    Something weird happens:

    Say I play a drum loop with a whole midi note. In order to repeat the
    drum loop, I will play the same note over again, stuck to the precedent
    note.

    Usually, I let a few ticks between the 2 notes in order to let the
    "note-off / note on" do their job".
    But now, when playing a busy song, a note is skipped here and there.
    Actually, I can hear that the loop is starting but it stops immediatly.
    The rest of the tracks are playing fine. But the reapeated drum loop
    reamins silent until the next triggering arrives.


    It seems never to happen when I solo the track.
    But it sometimes happen (not always) when everybody's playing.

    The work around, of course, is to organise the drum program so that I
    play the same loop with two different keys instead of repeating the same
    note.
    But it's starting to get on my nerves.

    Do you see what I'm talking about? And how could I solve this?

    Cubase SX1 / recent PC/along with Kontakt1.5.3


    Thanks for reading.

    Huey
    Hueyduck, Oct 31, 2009
    #1
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  2. Hueyduck

    XODDI Guest

    "Hueyduck" <> wrote in message
    news:4aec7555$0$29012$...
    > Hi everyone,
    >
    > Something weird happens:
    >
    > Say I play a drum loop with a whole midi note. In order to repeat the drum
    > loop, I will play the same note over again, stuck to the precedent note.
    >
    > Usually, I let a few ticks between the 2 notes in order to let the
    > "note-off / note on" do their job".
    > But now, when playing a busy song, a note is skipped here and there.
    > Actually, I can hear that the loop is starting but it stops immediatly.
    > The rest of the tracks are playing fine. But the reapeated drum loop
    > reamins silent until the next triggering arrives.
    >
    >
    > It seems never to happen when I solo the track.
    > But it sometimes happen (not always) when everybody's playing.
    >
    > The work around, of course, is to organise the drum program so that I play
    > the same loop with two different keys instead of repeating the same note.
    > But it's starting to get on my nerves.
    >
    > Do you see what I'm talking about? And how could I solve this?
    >
    > Cubase SX1 / recent PC/along with Kontakt1.5.3
    >
    >
    > Thanks for reading.
    >


    I bet it's the drum synth. Try adjusting the note length.

    In some synths, if two MIDI notes' lengths overlap, the second will not be
    played.

    (I wish I could DRAW this, it's easier and quicker to describe visually.)
    XODDI, Oct 31, 2009
    #2
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  3. Hueyduck

    Hueyduck Guest

    XODDI a écrit :

    >
    > I bet it's the drum synth. Try adjusting the note length.
    >
    > In some synths, if two MIDI notes' lengths overlap, the second will not
    > be played.
    >
    > (I wish I could DRAW this, it's easier and quicker to describe visually.)


    I understood exactly what you mean. But It's not that.

    The note are *not* overlapping. But, in a random way, they act exactly
    if they were.

    It happens even if I solo the track, so it cannot be a midi overflow.

    Technically, it acts exacly if the "note off" message was not sent in
    time but a little later.
    Sometimes it does it. Sometimes it don't.

    I tried Kontakt3 instead. The problem still occurs from time to time.

    So weird and annoying...
    The sequence , as I said , is a quite busy one, with tracks playing many
    short notes underneath (piano arpeggi). But I do'nt see the connection
    since it still happens if I mute the busy tracks and let only the loop play.


    Huey
    Hueyduck, Oct 31, 2009
    #3
  4. Hueyduck

    Swanny Guest

    Hueyduck wrote:
    > XODDI a écrit :
    >
    >>
    >> I bet it's the drum synth. Try adjusting the note length.
    >>
    >> In some synths, if two MIDI notes' lengths overlap, the second will
    >> not be played.
    >>
    >> (I wish I could DRAW this, it's easier and quicker to describe visually.)

    >
    > I understood exactly what you mean. But It's not that.
    >
    > The note are *not* overlapping. But, in a random way, they act exactly
    > if they were.
    >
    > It happens even if I solo the track, so it cannot be a midi overflow.
    >
    > Technically, it acts exacly if the "note off" message was not sent in
    > time but a little later.
    > Sometimes it does it. Sometimes it don't.
    >
    > I tried Kontakt3 instead. The problem still occurs from time to time.
    >
    > So weird and annoying...
    > The sequence , as I said , is a quite busy one, with tracks playing many
    > short notes underneath (piano arpeggi). But I do'nt see the connection
    > since it still happens if I mute the busy tracks and let only the loop
    > play.
    >
    >
    > Huey
    >


    Have you reached a polyphony ceiling?
    Swanny, Oct 31, 2009
    #4
  5. Hueyduck

    Hueyduck Guest

    Swanny a écrit :

    > Have you reached a polyphony ceiling?


    If you mean like a maximum voice a VST-i can reach, the answer is "no".
    Actually, it's occuring with a VST-i (Kontakt) wich plays only the damn
    drum loop (!!).

    What bothers me is that I notice the problem because I need a loop to be
    repeated. But this "approximation" is certainly happening many times
    without me noticing (it is mainly an orchestral music).

    Huey
    Hueyduck, Oct 31, 2009
    #5
  6. Hueyduck

    Swanny Guest

    Hueyduck wrote:
    > Swanny a écrit :
    >
    >> Have you reached a polyphony ceiling?

    >
    > If you mean like a maximum voice a VST-i can reach, the answer is "no".
    > Actually, it's occuring with a VST-i (Kontakt) wich plays only the damn
    > drum loop (!!).
    >
    > What bothers me is that I notice the problem because I need a loop to be
    > repeated. But this "approximation" is certainly happening many times
    > without me noticing (it is mainly an orchestral music).
    >
    > Huey


    What happens when you mute some of the instruments on the percussion
    track (eg cymbals)?
    Swanny, Nov 1, 2009
    #6
  7. Hueyduck

    Jos Geluk Guest

    Hueyduck schreef:
    > Hi everyone,
    >
    > Something weird happens:
    >
    > Say I play a drum loop with a whole midi note. In order to repeat the
    > drum loop, I will play the same note over again, stuck to the precedent
    > note.
    >
    > Usually, I let a few ticks between the 2 notes in order to let the
    > "note-off / note on" do their job".
    > But now, when playing a busy song, a note is skipped here and there.
    > Actually, I can hear that the loop is starting but it stops immediatly.
    > The rest of the tracks are playing fine. But the reapeated drum loop
    > reamins silent until the next triggering arrives.
    >
    >
    > It seems never to happen when I solo the track.
    > But it sometimes happen (not always) when everybody's playing.
    >
    > The work around, of course, is to organise the drum program so that I
    > play the same loop with two different keys instead of repeating the same
    > note.
    > But it's starting to get on my nerves.
    >
    > Do you see what I'm talking about? And how could I solve this?


    I have noticed this with Kontakt at random points, in parts that use
    many fast repeating notes, like a cymbal swell. I think it is a memory
    issue, or to be more precise, a DFD issue. In Kompakt, you could check
    this by watching a little DFD led. It would turn green when streaming
    from disk, and red when a note was skipped. I don't know if there is
    such a light in Kontakt, if there is I don't see it. Check the page with
    DFD statistics though (on the left under "Engine").

    Bottom line: fiddle with the DFD resources until the problem goes away.

    Hope this helps,

    Jos.

    --
    Ardis Park Music
    www.ardispark.nl
    Jos Geluk, Nov 1, 2009
    #7
  8. Hueyduck

    Hueyduck Guest

    Re: Midi "note off's" are not accurateley respected.

    Jos Geluk a écrit :

    >
    > Bottom line: fiddle with the DFD resources until the problem goes away.
    >


    ATT JOS and Swanny:

    Unfortunaltely, this could hardly be the real reason: my probleme occurs
    even if I only play the drum track.


    I was wondering if Setting the audio priority to lower than normal would
    be an answer.
    But how on earth would this setting be necessary on a recent PC . I
    never had to use it on my old athlon 2000.

    I'll try it , I think, but I don't think it is the solution.

    For me, this is a purely MIDI issue. But I might be wrong.


    Huey
    Hueyduck, Nov 1, 2009
    #8
  9. Hueyduck

    Jos Geluk Guest

    Re: Midi "note off's" are not accurateley respected.

    Hueyduck schreef:
    > Jos Geluk a écrit :
    >
    >>
    >> Bottom line: fiddle with the DFD resources until the problem goes away.
    >>

    >
    > ATT JOS and Swanny:
    >
    > Unfortunaltely, this could hardly be the real reason: my probleme occurs
    > even if I only play the drum track.


    Yes it could. DFD settings limit the amount of memory set aside for your
    instrument, never mind how much you may have available. Just out of
    curiosity, what are your DFD settings? (See Options/DFD in Kontakt.)

    Jos.

    --
    Ardis Park Music
    www.ardispark.nl
    Jos Geluk, Nov 2, 2009
    #9
  10. Hueyduck

    Hueyduck Guest

    Re: Midi "note off's" are not accurateley respected.

    Jos Geluk a écrit :
    > Hueyduck schreef:
    >> Jos Geluk a écrit :
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Bottom line: fiddle with the DFD resources until the problem goes away.
    >>>

    >>
    >> ATT JOS and Swanny:
    >>
    >> Unfortunaltely, this could hardly be the real reason: my probleme
    >> occurs even if I only play the drum track.

    >
    > Yes it could. DFD settings limit the amount of memory set aside for your
    > instrument, never mind how much you may have available.

    -
    This I didn't know.
    -

    > Just out of
    > curiosity, what are your DFD settings? (See Options/DFD in Kontakt.)


    Actually, here is exactly how it went:

    I had to reopen an old cubase session wich contained a Kontakt 1.5.3
    instance. This is the Kontakt that only had a drum loop to play but
    could'nt play the note off properly.

    Dureing the rework, I had to add 2 additionnal instances of Kontakt 3.

    Now here are the tricky part:

    the default settings of each version of Kontakt are the ones I use.
    But! But they are not the same under Ktkt 1.5.3 and Ktkt3 :

    This would explain don't seem to have my problem as often as I think I
    had under Kontakt 1.5.3 when I load the same patch under Ktkt3


    Kontakt 1.5.3

    Preload Buffer: 192kB
    Voice Buffer 384kB
    Reserevd voices: 64
    Mem Total: 24MB
    setting name: expert


    Kontakt 3.0.2.004

    Amount of RAM reserved for DFD: 60Mo
    Maximum number of stereo voices that are playable: 168kB
    Setting name: default (not expert)


    For the moment, I think that switching to Ktkt3 *and* lowering the
    priority of audi in cubase (devices/ device settings/VST
    multitrack/expert/audio priority : low) worked pretty well.

    I will run more advanced tests whenever I get the chance.


    And btw , Jos, you might really be right about this dfd issue. Because
    the base of my song is .... a 16th based note arpeggi of piano @114bpm.
    Add to this detached reptitive strings and you'll have the picture.

    RAM is not overloaded (1 200 Mo out of the 1 500 I can use before weird
    things start to happen).
    CPU usage is 15% at the maximum.
    DFD never overload.


    Thx for your input again, jos.



    Huey
    Hueyduck, Nov 2, 2009
    #10
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