Alright. I am trying to mix a stereo piano and blend it with everything else but it just doesn't blend... Any suggestions? Compress? Delay? Reverb? EQ? What is going to make it better??? Thanks, Claudio
In news:-privat.org the killer robot Claudio <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > Alright. I am trying to mix a stereo piano and blend it with everything > else but it just doesn't blend... > > Any suggestions? Compress? Delay? Reverb? EQ? What is going to make it > better??? Is it a recording of a real piano or a softsynth? If it's a real piano, I'd try something that can dirty up the sound, like a PSP Vintage Warmer or similar. I'd likely use that on a sampled piano as well. If it is a sampled piano, I'd look through my arsenal of pianos to find the one that sits in the mix the best with no other FX and work from there. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
Glennbo wrote: > In news:-privat.org the killer robot Claudio > <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio > and pressed these buttons... > >> Alright. I am trying to mix a stereo piano and blend it with everything >> else but it just doesn't blend... >> >> Any suggestions? Compress? Delay? Reverb? EQ? What is going to make it >> better??? > > Is it a recording of a real piano or a softsynth? If it's a real piano, > I'd try something that can dirty up the sound, like a PSP Vintage Warmer or > similar. I'd likely use that on a sampled piano as well. If it is a > sampled piano, I'd look through my arsenal of pianos to find the one that > sits in the mix the best with no other FX and work from there. > Thanks! It's a real one. I need to see the signal through a frequency analyzer and see which are the frequencies that are messing it up. Maybe the range 120-350Hz is too crowded... Claudio
"Claudio" <> wrote in message news:-privat.org... > Alright. I am trying to mix a stereo piano and blend it with everything > else but it just doesn't blend... > > Any suggestions? Compress? Delay? Reverb? EQ? What is going to make it > better??? It totally depends on context. Without hearing that, it's tough to say. Probably the most common thing I can think of, other than the piano sample itself (which, for example, might be geared toward classical solo piano recordings, and thus be hyped with things like sound of a large concert hall to make it sound good in that context) is that you generally don't want a stereo piano to be taking up the full width of a full band mix, and most stereo piano sounds tend to be geared for playing alone rather than being a part of a larger mix. The easiest fix for that, if you have SONAR 8, is to use the Channel Tools plug-in to narrow the field of the piano to just where you want it to sit in your soundstage. (This same tip goes for pretty much all stereo sounds, by the way. Channel Tools has quickly become one of my most used plug-ins.) I believe there are some other plug-ins out there that do some of the same things as Channel Tools if you don't have that. For example, I think Clone Ensemble has a plug-in that does a subset of what Channel Tools does, though I find Channel Tools much more intuitive. Another pretty common thing is that a piano sound geared for solo piano will generally need some bass rolled off to not interfere with the kick drum and bass guitar (or acoustic bass) when it comes to a full mix. I might also tend to dial back a bit of the warmth range (somewhere in 200-300 Hz territory) and the presence range (somewhere around 3 kHz), especially if it is stepping on the vocal. If the piano is too dark for the context, though, you might need to enhance some of the high end, including the presence range, to let it cut through the mix. I sometimes do and sometimes don't use a compressor on a piano. It just depends on how it is sitting in the mix, and whether a compressor is needed to make it more uniform than the dynamics of the piano and playing are doing on their own. As for reverb, assuming the piano doesn't already have its own ambience (and I usually prefer one that doesn't, or at least is from a close-miked perspective, for a piano that is going to fit into a mix), I'd typically just treat the piano with the same room reverb as other instruments, with how much depending on where you want the piano to feel like it's sitting in the soundstage. I can't recall having ever used delay on a piano, though perhaps as a special effect. I know some prefer to just select a piano sample or synth piano specifically for a given context, in particular with the idea that a less real-sounding piano might be a better fit for some contexts, such as when it needs to cut through the mix better. However, as a lifelong piano player, I much prefer to play the piano sample that feels most real to me, where I can be most expressive as a player, then process it as necessary to make it fit the mix if the way I've played it doesn't just naturally do that in the first place. Lately I have mostly been using the Garritan Steinway ($99 downloadable Basic Edition), which feels to me the most like a real piano, and has settings you can tweak characteristics of such real piano stuff as sympathetic resonance, sustain resonance, and mechanical noises (e.g. from pedals and hammers). My typical processing chain on it is EQ (or not, depending on if needed for the particular mix), compressor (or not, depending on the mix), Channel Tools (to narrow the stereo field and place it where I want in the left-to-right soundstage), and PSP VintageWarmer (to simulate recording to tape). I mostly do use EQ at least to roll off a little bass and sometimes to hype the high end slightly, and compressor is much more variable depending on the type of mix. I don't use the piano's built-in ambience processor, but do send the piano to whatever I'm using for room reverb (usually PerfectSpace with some real room impulses -- quite a few of the ones on my upcoming album are using the Blues Club front position, though I know I also used a chapel impulse on at least one and may have used some other impulses as well). If you want to get an idea, I've temporarily got the entire album streaming at: http://members.soundclick.com/station/747317 Seven of the twelve songs are using the Garritan Steinway. The ones that aren't are "Love Holds On", "Take Advantage of Me", "A Rainy Day", "If I Could Turn the Hands of Time", and "Fixin' the Hole in the Wall". As for those, "If I Could Turn the Hands of Time" only has an electric piano (NI Elektrik Piano), and I think the rest have NI Akoustik Piano, though it's possible some might have the Best Service Galaxy Steinway 5.1. (Those are older mixes that I had no need to remix, only remaster, for the album -- I've had the Garritan Steinway for less than six months.) Rick -- ======================================= Rick Paul Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP) Web: www.RickPaul.info MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic =======================================
"Claudio" <> wrote in message news:-privat.org... > It's a real one. I need to see the signal through a frequency analyzer > and see which are the frequencies that are messing it up. > Maybe the range 120-350Hz is too crowded... Ah, if it's a real one that often makes things much harder. Mic type and position and room characteristics are probably the most likely culprits, but you can still work around that in ways similar to what I mentioned in my other post, especially if the piano sounds good on its own (i.e. outside of the context of the mix but in your recording). Acoustic pianos are really tough to record in a typical home environment. I've got an acoustic piano, but one early experience trying to record it convinced me to stick with electronic simulations. Thankfully, those have gotten way better over the years, though even the Roland MKS-20 I was using for many years prior to GigaPiano's introduction felt preferable to me than my real piano when it came to recorded sound. Rick -- ======================================= Rick Paul Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP) Web: www.RickPaul.info MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic =======================================
On Jun 20, 5:21 pm, "Rick Paul" <> wrote: > "Claudio" <> wrote in message > > news:-privat.org... > > > It's a real one. I need to see the signal through a frequency analyzer > > and see which are the frequencies that are messing it up. > > Maybe the range 120-350Hz is too crowded... > > Ah, if it's a real one that often makes things much harder. Mic type and > position and room characteristics are probably the most likely culprits, but > you can still work around that in ways similar to what I mentioned in my > other post, especially if the piano sounds good on its own (i.e. outside of > the context of the mix but in your recording). Acoustic pianos are really > tough to record in a typical home environment. I've got an acoustic piano, > but one early experience trying to record it convinced me to stick with > electronic simulations. Thankfully, those have gotten way better over the > years, though even the Roland MKS-20 I was using for many years prior to > GigaPiano's introduction felt preferable to me than my real piano when it > came to recorded sound. > > Rick > -- > ======================================= > Rick Paul > Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP) > Web:www.RickPaul.info > MySpace:www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic > ======================================= If it's an upright you won't have room for the mics. On a grand you can point 2 directional mics. Place them in the middle and point them to the bottom and top strings. also use a U-87below or above to blend teh soundboard. That would take up 3 tracks if you wanted teh sound you hear when sitting at a piano. It's like the old fashioned drum mic set up where you put mics and pan them like your sitting on the drum seat. now days though I use precussion like ear candy and there are no rules. Piano however might sound a little strange if you pan it to much. Most samples are set to teh left low freq and right high freq at about 15% pan each way. In teh early days of teh Beatles they just put th whole piano far right or left and people were used to it. But todays standards are a whole different thing. Good luck.
<Alright. I am trying to mix a stereo piano and blend it with everything else but it just doesn't blend...> The hardest mix I ever had to do was "The Five Browns" recording of "Everybody Loves Somebody", featuring Dean Martin's original vocal. The 5 Browns have FIVE acoustic pianos playing together, plus an acoustic bass and drummer. I called every piano player I knew asking for advice. Glennbo's suggestion is 100% correct - start playing with the eq to sit the piano in the track. In my case I had to play with the eq, panning, compression, etc. for all five pianos individually. It took a whole night and a glass of vodka, but I finally got it. The CD ended up going to #1 in Billboard. If you need detailed advice on mixing the acoustic piano, write to me privately. Good luck! -- Regards, Ted Perlman www.tedperlman.com www.myspace.com/tedperlman www.facebook.com/ted.perlman
