Hi all, Yep, this is yet another subjective "Brand X vs Brand Y" thread... Here's the story. I've got a Roland RD-170 stage piano (new) which I'm quite happy with. The price was right, the piano sound is usable (but not superb), and I love the touch. But I want to expand my sound set (generally for live, but also occasional recording) by purchasing a rack unit. I already own a Roland XP-30, so I have plenty of high-quality "stock" Roland sounds. Thus I've been considering what brand of rack unit I might buy. There are really only three major brands which come to mind - Roland, Yamaha and Kurzweil. What I'm really after is the best piano sound. Organs, synths, EPs, Wurlys and the like are good bonus sounds, but the essential criterion is a really great piano sound to work with. Now, the Kurzweil PC2-series triple-strike piano is very nice. Until Roland released the Fantom X series piano (88 notes sampled 4 times each!) I was of the opinion that the PC2R would be the Holy Grail of piano sounds, and rack modules in general. Good other sounds, great reverb let alone other effects, and KB3 as well! But the PC2 series is getting old now, and the Fantom XR is new generation. 128 voices poly is also quite attractive. The thing which is stopping me from purchasing the XR right away is the fact that the piano sample set is nigh on identical to that of my RD-170, according to my side-by-side comparisons. Roland has just put all 88 keys and 4 velocities in the Fantom X from their flagship piano sample stock, whereas the RD-170 has only 20 keys and 2 velocities in ROM. Yamaha also have the Motif, and while I personally dislike the typical Yamaha sampled piano sounds, the PLG150-AP expansion sounds fantastic in demos online. In its favour, I'll comment that the PC2 is indeed a rare piano sound, one which may make my music stand out from the crowd more than the others. Roland and Yamaha are "everywhere"... So, is the PC2 series piano itself still "hi-tech" enough compared to the newest releases? How many different notes are sampled for the PC2 piano? And the doozy: what is your ROMpler piano sound of choice, in a rack unit? Why? As an aside, anybody know what's up with Kurzweil's lack of innovative new product recently? Will we see a 6-strike piano in a "PC3" any time soon? ;-) Cheers, Matt Hawke
On 9 Dec 2004 20:19:25 -0800, "Slicer" <> wrote: >As an aside, anybody know what's up with Kurzweil's lack of innovative >new product recently? Will we see a 6-strike piano in a "PC3" any time >soon? ;-) The marketing department may insist on it ;-) What don't you like about the current PC piano sound?
Well, without being very highly experienced with the PC2 sound, it seems to me that the middle octave of the piano (say, at a guess, A4 through to A5) isn't exactly as "cutting" or "bright" as I would expect a piano of the PC2's character to be. The upper and lower registers are just incredible, whereas the middle seems to disappear somewhat in comparison. I suppose it's a personal preference thing, and perhaps I'll just grab an EQ and try to tweak it after the fact. I ask myself, when I hear different digital/stage pianos at live shows or music stores, what sounds more like a real piano? You know, eyes shut, just listening - which one is more real? Each time I answer, Roland or Yamaha. Shouldn't it be that way, I ask? After all, the PC2 is 4 years old. Triple strike and 64 poly would have been huge back then, but now we've got quadruple strike and 128! And yet, each time I'm torn by that answer, because the PC2 sound has a certain distinctiveness and style to it. It's difficult because I haven't had much opportunity to play the PC2 at close quarters (Kurzweil's availability is quite limited here in Australia). I'll have to properly get hold of one sometime and do a real comparison... - Matt
I'm reading all this with great interest. Especially the thing about PC2 triple strike having a unique sound. I am close to ordering a PC1X although I've never played, heard or even seen one in person. But because I want something different than every other keyboardist in town has, I'm leaning toward the PC1X. All I really need from a stage piano is good 88-key piano action, basic onboard sounds and some simple midi capability. For live performance I consider good acoustic piano, rhodes, wurly and clav to be essential onboard sounds for a stage piano. They don't need to be perfect for live application, just sound reasonably similar to the instrument they are emulating and be able to cut through a mix. In studio of course we seek perfection, but for playing live the priorities are different. I was even considering a Korg SP-200 because it has the required sounds and is a very simple board. However, it's capabilities as a midi controller are questionable. Comments? Jake "Slicer" <> wrote in message news:... > Hi all, > > Yep, this is yet another subjective "Brand X vs Brand Y" thread... > > Here's the story. I've got a Roland RD-170 stage piano (new) which I'm > quite happy with. The price was right, the piano sound is usable (but > not superb), and I love the touch. But I want to expand my sound set > (generally for live, but also occasional recording) by purchasing a > rack unit. > > I already own a Roland XP-30, so I have plenty of high-quality "stock" > Roland sounds. Thus I've been considering what brand of rack unit I > might buy. There are really only three major brands which come to mind > - Roland, Yamaha and Kurzweil. What I'm really after is the best piano > sound. Organs, synths, EPs, Wurlys and the like are good bonus sounds, > but the essential criterion is a really great piano sound to work with. > > Now, the Kurzweil PC2-series triple-strike piano is very nice. Until > Roland released the Fantom X series piano (88 notes sampled 4 times > each!) I was of the opinion that the PC2R would be the Holy Grail of > piano sounds, and rack modules in general. Good other sounds, great > reverb let alone other effects, and KB3 as well! > > But the PC2 series is getting old now, and the Fantom XR is new > generation. 128 voices poly is also quite attractive. The thing which > is stopping me from purchasing the XR right away is the fact that the > piano sample set is nigh on identical to that of my RD-170, according > to my side-by-side comparisons. Roland has just put all 88 keys and 4 > velocities in the Fantom X from their flagship piano sample stock, > whereas the RD-170 has only 20 keys and 2 velocities in ROM. > > Yamaha also have the Motif, and while I personally dislike the typical > Yamaha sampled piano sounds, the PLG150-AP expansion sounds fantastic > in demos online. > > In its favour, I'll comment that the PC2 is indeed a rare piano sound, > one which may make my music stand out from the crowd more than the > others. Roland and Yamaha are "everywhere"... > > So, is the PC2 series piano itself still "hi-tech" enough compared to > the newest releases? How many different notes are sampled for the PC2 > piano? And the doozy: what is your ROMpler piano sound of choice, in a > rack unit? Why? > > As an aside, anybody know what's up with Kurzweil's lack of innovative > new product recently? Will we see a 6-strike piano in a "PC3" any time > soon? ;-) > > Cheers, > > > > Matt Hawke >
Funny you should say that... When I was investigating and shopping for my stage piano, I did consider the PC1X. It was a very attractive release from Kurzweil and it happened at the right time. However, there were some things which led me to go for a Roland piano instead. 0) Availability. Kurzweil is just hard to get. 1) Reliability. I like Roland stuff, I know it well and I trust it. Regardless of everything people say online about various brands, I think Roland knows how to make a product well (even if they don't support it well). 2) Useability. The RD-170 is very straightforward to use. That doesn't mean it's simple, but that it's quick and easy to get around when you're changing songs and have to get to that next sound pronto. 3) Features. While the Kurzweil has the unique sound, it only has 32 voices poly. That's not much when I'm running up a scale with strings layered on my piano sound. Also, the Roland's control surface is quite good (I like the Upper/Lower direct volume control) and it has other pluses like the metronome and the track recorder. 4) Price. The Roland was about 2/3 the price of the Kurzweil. 5) Experience. I was able to play the RD-170 for hours before I bought it. No amount of reviews will tell you whether, for example, the keybed feels real under your fingers. To me, the RD-170 does. At the time there wasn't even a single PC1X in Australia that I could play. It wasn't exactly a straighforward decision, though. Kurzweil effects are simply stunning. I had the rare opportunity to play a PC2X in person (unfortunately only through headphones) and while listening intently to the piano sound I was knocked over by the realism and clarity of the default room reverb. Simply beautiful - studio quality there. For me, the RD-170 was a compromise - useable sounds for live performance, coupled with good MIDI control and a great feel. So I scaled down my expectations and bought the Roland, fully expecting to buy a PC2R at some stage in the future. Its incredible piano, stunning reverb and other features (S/PDIF and AES/EBU digital out!) make it studio quality for me. Probably nothing better than the PC2 for recording than a well-miked Steinway grand... One final comment. Listen closely to the Korg piano before you buy it, on as many different speakers/headphones as you can manage. Why? I just don't feel that the Korg sound is up to scratch. I didn't think it had any worthwhile uniqueness, and at the same time thought that the sample standard was quite low. Still, all this is extremely subjective personal preference. YMMV. As it stands, after some more pondering recently, I am saving my pennies to buy the Kurzweil PC2R. I just know I won't be happy with any of the other run-of-the-mill sounds which are currently available. The Kurzweil is my dream machine... Did that help any? Cheers, Matt
