OK, I would appreciate any feedback from those in the know... I am considering doing the update, BUT, I cannot seem to find any verification that Sonar 7 is any better at handling soft-synth related crashes. This has been a real issue for me in the past few months, and I an getting fairly sick of seeing the little glitches that keep popping up, hanging, freezing, (you know)..I have a great DAW, custom made Sonica, so I assume that the soft-synths are the culprit. Any ideas? Thanks, C
All softsynths have trouble? Or just certain ones? What version of Sonar? There was a problem with the TTS-1, I think it was Sonar 5, they've fixed that. That's the only one I know about, though. More details please? What were you doing when the hang/freeze happens? etc. -- Sue Morton Stig wrote: > OK, I would appreciate any feedback from those in the know... > I am considering doing the update, BUT, I cannot seem to find any > verification that Sonar 7 is any better at handling soft-synth related > crashes. This has been a real issue for me in the past few months, > and I an getting fairly sick of seeing the little glitches that keep > popping up, hanging, freezing, (you know)..I have a great DAW, custom > made Sonica, so I assume that the soft-synths are the culprit. Any > ideas? Thanks, C
I am using Sonar 6. I think I am describing general freezing problems, that only appeared when I added a few synths. Native Instrument Elektrik Piano, Organized Trio. Just plain "strange" things happen. I even heard you yourself allude to some "bugginess". It just seems so less stable than a few months ago. Do you think this sort of thing is related to the synths, or just the program itself? I was hoping that perhaps an upgrade might help the situation. Thanks again, c "Sue Morton" <> wrote in message news:GhDyj.17420$... > All softsynths have trouble? Or just certain ones? What version of > Sonar? There was a problem with the TTS-1, I think it was Sonar 5, they've > fixed that. That's the only one I know about, though. More details > please? What were you doing when the hang/freeze happens? etc. > -- > Sue Morton > > Stig wrote: >> OK, I would appreciate any feedback from those in the know... >> I am considering doing the update, BUT, I cannot seem to find any >> verification that Sonar 7 is any better at handling soft-synth related >> crashes. This has been a real issue for me in the past few months, >> and I an getting fairly sick of seeing the little glitches that keep >> popping up, hanging, freezing, (you know)..I have a great DAW, custom >> made Sonica, so I assume that the soft-synths are the culprit. Any >> ideas? Thanks, C > >
I've not heard of general "bugginess", and nothing specific to soft synths. Rick has been experiencing problems but he's narrowed these down as likely the Kontakt2 Player. I only experienced the TTS-1 problem I mentioned, which has been fixed. All the bugs I've experienced I've been able to find the item or area of concern and also recreate the 'bug'. I have reported all of them to Cake, they confirm the bug exists and then nothing more happens. Release after release and not fixed. I'm not sure what you recall me "alluding to"? My beef with Cake is that these things happen at all, and aren't fixed promptly when identified. Finding and recreating the problem and reporting it, is not my issue. I asked for specific details from you because usually the solution lies in finding out what is actually wrong, which is not very often of a general nature. Your general "bugginess" with synths, as you've explained it, can be attributed to a specific problem that has not yet been isolated (most likely), or a corruption of broader impact that is specific to your system (also probable). -- Sue Morton Stig wrote: > I am using Sonar 6. I think I am describing general freezing > problems, that only appeared when I added a few synths. Native > Instrument Elektrik Piano, Organized Trio. Just plain "strange" > things happen. I even heard you yourself allude to some "bugginess". > It just seems so less stable than a few months ago. Do you think this > sort of thing is related to the synths, or just the program itself? I > was hoping that perhaps an upgrade might help the situation. Thanks > again, c > > > "Sue Morton" <> wrote in message > news:GhDyj.17420$... >> All softsynths have trouble? Or just certain ones? What version of >> Sonar? There was a problem with the TTS-1, I think it was Sonar 5, >> they've fixed that. That's the only one I know about, though. More >> details please? What were you doing when the hang/freeze happens? >> etc. -- >> Sue Morton >> >> Stig wrote: >>> OK, I would appreciate any feedback from those in the know... >>> I am considering doing the update, BUT, I cannot seem to find any >>> verification that Sonar 7 is any better at handling soft-synth >>> related crashes. This has been a real issue for me in the past few >>> months, and I an getting fairly sick of seeing the little glitches >>> that keep popping up, hanging, freezing, (you know)..I have a great >>> DAW, custom made Sonica, so I assume that the soft-synths are the >>> culprit. Any ideas? Thanks, C
Thanks for the reply, Sue. I suppose it's those little things that just make recording harder. Examples: when I use the V-vocal, on certain tracks it will simply not display any editable notes, rendering it useless. When I normalize a track now, very often it will hang up for like 60 seconds before it clicks back (this is on a small clip). Sometimes just doing a quick save will hang for another 30 seconds, it's fairly unpredictable. Since I got the update on the New NI Elektrik Piano (1.5) it is sooooo much more stable. So, in effect, it just seems to be less stable than in was a few months ago. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this kind of thing. Thanks again, c "Sue Morton" <> wrote in message news:%pEyj.59723$... > I've not heard of general "bugginess", and nothing specific to soft > synths. Rick has been experiencing problems but he's narrowed these down > as likely the Kontakt2 Player. I only experienced the TTS-1 problem I > mentioned, which has been fixed. All the bugs I've experienced I've been > able to find the item or area of concern and also recreate the 'bug'. I > have reported all of them to Cake, they confirm the bug exists and then > nothing more happens. Release after release and not fixed. I'm not sure > what you recall me "alluding to"? My beef with Cake is that these things > happen at all, and aren't fixed promptly when identified. Finding and > recreating the problem and reporting it, is not my issue. > > I asked for specific details from you because usually the solution lies in > finding out what is actually wrong, which is not very often of a general > nature. Your general "bugginess" with synths, as you've explained it, can > be attributed to a specific problem that has not yet been isolated (most > likely), or a corruption of broader impact that is specific to your system > (also probable). > -- > Sue Morton > > Stig wrote: >> I am using Sonar 6. I think I am describing general freezing >> problems, that only appeared when I added a few synths. Native >> Instrument Elektrik Piano, Organized Trio. Just plain "strange" >> things happen. I even heard you yourself allude to some "bugginess". >> It just seems so less stable than a few months ago. Do you think this >> sort of thing is related to the synths, or just the program itself? I >> was hoping that perhaps an upgrade might help the situation. Thanks >> again, c >> >> >> "Sue Morton" <> wrote in message >> news:GhDyj.17420$... >>> All softsynths have trouble? Or just certain ones? What version of >>> Sonar? There was a problem with the TTS-1, I think it was Sonar 5, >>> they've fixed that. That's the only one I know about, though. More >>> details please? What were you doing when the hang/freeze happens? >>> etc. -- >>> Sue Morton >>> >>> Stig wrote: >>>> OK, I would appreciate any feedback from those in the know... >>>> I am considering doing the update, BUT, I cannot seem to find any >>>> verification that Sonar 7 is any better at handling soft-synth >>>> related crashes. This has been a real issue for me in the past few >>>> months, and I an getting fairly sick of seeing the little glitches >>>> that keep popping up, hanging, freezing, (you know)..I have a great >>>> DAW, custom made Sonica, so I assume that the soft-synths are the >>>> culprit. Any ideas? Thanks, C > >
<soft-synth related crashes. This has been a real issue for me> All I use is softsynths (with a few hardware modules) 24/7 everyday without issue in Nuendo. Plus all my hardware reverbs added as external fx. No problems. I keep hearing about issues all the time with Sonar & softsynths, audio cardss, DSP cards, etc. Why stick with the program when it causes so many headaches? -- Regards, Ted Perlman Producer-Arranger-Musician-Composer www.tedperlman.com www.myspace.com/tedperlman
A few thoughts on the specifics you mentioned here (a few more replies in context elsewhere in the thread): "Stig" <> wrote in message news:47cb1f5c$0$16672$... > Examples: when I use the V-vocal, on certain tracks it will simply not > display any editable notes, rendering it useless. This can be due to the nature of the signal. For example, a signal that has a very high balance of overtones to fundamental, or, especially, noise to pitched tones (e.g. a very whispery vocal), can cause this. It can be the same sort of thing in AutoTune, though some things may be tracked better or worse in one or the other. There really isn't much you can do in that case, other than possibly using a manual pitch shifter if your ears can hear what needs to be done. Tuners like V-Vocal and AutoTune do rely on being able to detect the pitch of the content, and sometimes get fooled by certain signals that don't have a strong enough fundamental. Note that if you are talking about strongly pitched stuff that is just sometimes randomly not having any pitch detected, but other times having pitch detected on the exact same clips, that is another thing. I've never experienced that. Make sure the clip isn't muted or something -- that's about the only thing I can think of at this point. > When I normalize a track now, very often it will hang up for like 60 > seconds before it clicks back (this is on a small clip). Do you have a lot of clips in the project and have you done a lot of editing in the project session prior to this point? One thing I have seen is that SONAR can sometimes take progressively long to get back to you on even simple things when there are loads of clips and you've been in an intense editing session for a long time. I think the reason may be because the Undo list gets unwieldy. When that happens, the easiest "solution" is to save your results, close the project, then reopen it. That clears the Undo list. As far as I know SONAR doesn't have any facility to limit the size of the Undo list to prevent this sort of thing. It might be nice if it did, though, then conceivably there might be times when we'd wish we hadn't just gone off the end of it. ;-) This seems the most likely reason for a very long delay with the kind of case you are talking about. Another that might add to it would be if you are normalizing a slip edited clip but SONAR has to normalize the whole clip (including portions that aren't visible due to the slip editing) behind the scenes (i.e. in case you stretch the thing out again later -- I'm not actually sure if it would do that or not in terms of what portion of the signal gets normalized, but I do believe it has to do some calculations based on the whole clip in such a case). One thing you can do to help on this front is to Apply Trimming to clips you will be doing non-realtime processing on. If you are using AudioSnap on a clip, doing the calculations for that can also slow things down considerably for rendering operations, especially with some of the more expensive stretching algorithms. Another thing that can come into play with slow response time is all the latency in the system if, for example, you have a lot of plug-ins with high latency. I can't imagine that would ever create a 60 second delay, but some plug-ins with very high latency (PSP Neon HR comes to mind) can create some fairly long delays, and noticeable moves backward or forward in time if, for example, you bypass them or enable them during playback. From memory, I think it was at least a few seconds. This isn't likely what you're seeing, but the main reason I mention it is it can slow down response time in general, and could also add to the overall response time delays you get in other scenarios that might have slow response time. > Sometimes just doing a quick save will hang for another 30 seconds, it's > fairly unpredictable. That is likely to mainly depend on the project, but also any other delays that might be inherent in the system to add to the actual saving time at any given moment. Rick -- ======================================= Rick Paul Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP) Web: www.RickPaul.info MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic =======================================
"Sue Morton" <> wrote in message news:%pEyj.59723$... > I've not heard of general "bugginess", and nothing specific to soft > synths. Rick has been experiencing problems but he's narrowed these down > as likely the Kontakt2 Player. I only experienced the TTS-1 problem I > mentioned, That is one specific problem, so far only in experienced in one specific project. However, I have seen some other scenarios that may fall more into the category of "general bugginess" with softsynths, or specific softsynths, at least if you don't know enough about them to narrow them down further. Here are a few examples that come to mind: Crashes when tracking with Kontakt (at least V2, not sure about V3 or V1.x) and some very possibly some other NI plug-ins (e.g. Guitar Rig 2 comes to mind, not sure about GR3). If you are on a multicore system (in my case Core 2 Duo), with SONAR's MP mode enabled, this seems to be a general fact of life. Though it is not specifically recreatable on demand, it empirically seems to happen fairly frequently. For example, in the most recent project where I hadn't had MP mode turned off, I could usually get through tracking one part, then it would crash on the next one. Then I'd restart SONAR and try that one again, and that one would be okay, then it would crash on the next part. This was in a total MIDI/softsynth project with two instances of Kontakt 2 Player running Garritan Concert & Marching Band parts -- 30 MIDI channels total across the two instances, though not all had MIDI data on them at that point. After turning MP mode off, though, I had no further crashes with that project. I believe I also experienced this issue with SONAR 6.2(.1?) -- not sure about earlier versions of SONAR -- and I know I've experienced it with SONAR 7.x, at least through SONAR 7.0.2. Flaky behavior, generally leading to severe audio glitches (such as repeated samples playing over and over for a long period) and often a hang or crash, when tracking MIDI some MIDI softsynths and playing multiple continuous controllers in parallel (e.g. a Roland style pitch/mod lever, which sends both pitch wheel data and mod wheel data from the same controller). I have experienced this with a number of softsynths including at least Kontakt 2, Absynth (2, I think), Cameleon 5000, and others I can't recall at the moment. I could not, however, get it to happen with TTS-1. This was reported to Cakewalk at least as far back as SONAR 6 (I think 6.0), if not even in some version of SONAR 5.x. Having a multicore system seems to reduce, but not totally eliminate, the likelihood of having problems in this area. My feeling on this is that, after SONAR's audio engine was retooled for "gap-less" behavior (initially with SONAR 4.0.3), the audio engine got much higher priority than other threads, and there may be some scenarios where starvation of those other threads occurs, especially in a low performing system (e.g. my previous system, which was an Athlon XP 1600+), but possibly also in better performing single-processor systems as you don't even have to have a lot going on with the system to experience this (e.g. one time on my old Athlon system I had it going on with just one audio loop playing back and tracking one softsynth part with Cameleon or Absynth -- nothing else in the project). I suspect having a multiprocessor helps in this case because the additional processor may be able to service the thread(s) that would have been starved in the single processor situation, though I also think that may just delay the issue to times when things get more intense, as I have still experienced the problem on my Core 2 Duo system, albeit fairly rarely. It is also conceivable that audio drivers (e.g. their performance and/or stability) might come into play here -- i.e. in my theory (I really have no confirmation from Cakewalk to suggest that my theory is or isn't valid). SONAR hanging in the task list after a crash, requiring a reboot to clear it. This might be audio device-specific (I'm using an E-MU 1820M), but this definitely happens some percentage of the time after SONAR crashes, and has since at least SONAR 5 and still in SONAR 7. It is a particular frustration on my system because my system takes so long to reboot due to loads of drivers and such. I have to say I haven't noticed it happening since upgrading to the latest (V2.0) drivers for my E-MU hardware, but that may just be coincidence in that I haven't had too many crashes since that, only the specific ones related to the Kontakt2Player crash, which are trapped by SONAR's crash recovery system (most likely meaning it can shut the drivers down cleanly). With SONAR 6, I also often got blue screens at some point after SONAR crashes if I didn't reboot my system. Sometimes it might be very soon after the SONAR crash (e.g. when viewing a Watson log right after it), and other times it might be as much as a few hours later. I have not yet seen this with SONAR 7. BSOD's obviously have to be driver issues at some level, but I never had this with SONAR 5 or earlier, and the only other issues I ever saw that caused BSOD's for a number of years prior to the issue "provoked" (catalyzed?) by SONAR 6 were well known ones with some Adobe software running some optimization libraries that didn't work on the AMD processor I had at the time. As for the general question as to whether SONAR 7 is improved, I think it generally is, and I know some of my pet peeves from SONAR 6 (e.g. Mute Tool cursor not showing up when in the mute entire clip mode that I always use with the Mute Tool) are corrected. As I mentioned above, I also haven't seen the BSOD after a SONAR crash issue I used to see fairly regularly with SONAR 6.x, but I haven't heard of others experiencing that one. Of course, there are also all the various enhancements in SONAR 7 that come into play in the decision as to whether to upgrade or not. For example, I find the Dim Solo mode is a particularly big help on the productivity front. (For lots more details on my thoughts on the SONAR 7 upgrade, see www.cakewalknet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=631&Itemid=2. Note that it was written before the SONAR 7.0.2 patch.) Rick -- ======================================= Rick Paul Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP) Web: www.RickPaul.info MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic =======================================
"Ted Perlman" <> wrote in message news:47cb22a5$0$22824$... > All I use is softsynths (with a few hardware modules) 24/7 everyday > without issue in Nuendo. Plus all my hardware reverbs added as external > fx. No problems. I keep hearing about issues all the time with Sonar & > softsynths, audio cardss, DSP cards, etc. Why stick with the program when > it causes so many headaches? Well, if you hang out in a SONAR forum, you'll hear about SONAR crashes, though also about people doing similar things who aren't experiencing any crashes. That's the nature of the beast. Just for fun, I went over to the Nuendo 4 forum on nuendo.com, just to check out the general topics being discussed over there, and it was filled with messages with "crash" and other assorted stability/reliability issues in titles, such as: Sticky: Nr Unexpected crashes Sticky: N4 Unexpected CPU Spiking Snap Point/Crashing issues after using Bounce Selection constant crashing... And that was just in the first 10 messages on the page! Of course, I'd guess that there are probably more Nuendo users experiencing just peachy behavior than experiencing problems, but users experiencing great behavior generally don't post, other than maybe in answer to other people's posts. It may well be that you're not using the kinds of plug-ins that are causing the problems -- most of mine, for example, have been with Kontakt 2, Guitar Rig 2, and a few other NI plug-ins. Or it may be that something is different about your scenario than mine beyond just the plug-ins (and DAW choice) as, for example, in answer to my thread on Kontakt2Player crashes, Ben Moore replied that he isn't having crashes. In fact, a crash that is 100% repeatable for me in one specific project ends up not being repeatable in another project with the same softsynth, so there is obviously something more complex going on there in the problem scenario. Of course, choice of audio cards, and the stability of their drivers, can also come into play. You'd have to have the exact same plug-ins and audio cards, and specific uses of the applications on your system and someone else's to truly compare stability, and very few people have the exact same sets of ingredients, no less the same workflow. BTW, SONAR 7 also supports external hardware pretty much just as if it were a plug-in (except you'll have to manually restore your hardware settings or, if it can be automated with MIDI, automate it that way), including dealing with latency compensation. Rick -- ======================================= Rick Paul Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP) Web: www.RickPaul.info MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic =======================================
<And that was just in the first 10 messages on the page> Nuendo 4 is not ready for 24/7 work. You won't find anyting like that from Nuendo 3 users. -- Regards, Ted Perlman Producer-Arranger-Musician-Composer www.tedperlman.com www.myspace.com/tedperlman
"Stig" <> wrote in message news:47cae5de$0$6474$... > OK, I would appreciate any feedback from those in the know... > I am considering doing the update, BUT, I cannot seem to find any > verification that Sonar 7 is any better at handling soft-synth related > crashes. This has been a real issue for me in the past few months, and I an > getting fairly sick of seeing the little glitches that keep popping up, > hanging, freezing, (you know)..I have a great DAW, custom made Sonica, so I > assume that the soft-synths are the culprit. Any ideas? Thanks, C I would download the Sonar 7 demo and try it out. It don't cost anything. You won't be able to use V-Vocal, because the demo is pretty stripped down, but I would imagine you'd be able to load all your softies....I would hope! Poly
