Q. Whaddaya get for including buggy glopped on plugins? A. User fan sites like this one! http://www.v-vocal.com/ -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 02:51:55 +0000 (UTC), Glennbo <> wrote: > >Q. Whaddaya get for including buggy glopped on plugins? >A. User fan sites like this one! > >http://www.v-vocal.com/ I've not had this problem, because I always "bounce to clip" after I tune a clip. Many years ago when many noticed instability with V-vocal clips, this was the recommended procedure. Never leave a clip as a v-vocal clip. The kiss of death is to copy and paste a v-vocal clip. I tried that about 2 or 3 times and never did it again. I always first rename a file before I start tuning it, so I can always revert back to the original unaltered vocal. I notice his workaround for v-vocal is underconstruction. I suppose he's post what I've just said as a workaround. I've gotten in the habit of working this way, so I'm not too concerned about them fixing this, although it's pretty lame and pathetic that it's never been fixed. Is there no shame left in the corporate world? -- Gerry Peters
The killer robot Gerry Peters <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... >>Q. Whaddaya get for including buggy glopped on plugins? >>A. User fan sites like this one! >> >>http://www.v-vocal.com/ > > I've not had this problem, because I always "bounce to clip" after I > tune a clip. Many years ago when many noticed instability with V-vocal > clips, this was the recommended procedure. Never leave a clip as a > v-vocal clip. > > The kiss of death is to copy and paste a v-vocal clip. I tried that > about 2 or 3 times and never did it again. I always first rename a > file before I start tuning it, so I can always revert back to the > original unaltered vocal. I notice his workaround for v-vocal is > underconstruction. I suppose he's post what I've just said as a > workaround. > > I've gotten in the habit of working this way, so I'm not too concerned > about them fixing this, although it's pretty lame and pathetic that > it's never been fixed. Is there no shame left in the corporate world? I only tried using VVocal a few times and every time it was buggy so I quit using it altogether. In general if I don't like a vocal part due to pitch, I just re-sing it until I do like it. Still, Cake should either fix or scrap bugged up stuff like this and not let it go for 5 years and 5 versions. As a developer, I'd either block access to doing what's broken, fix it, or scrap the module all together, but I wouldn't leave something in the software that can almost crash it on demand. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
I do what Gerry doesandusev-vocal virtually problem free. Next up - fix thespacebar on mykeyboard! NeilR "Glennbo" <> wrote in message news:Xns9DEE579881CABBrownShoesDontMakeIt@188.40.43.230... > The killer robot Gerry Peters <> grabbed the > controls > of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > >>>Q. Whaddaya get for including buggy glopped on plugins? >>>A. User fan sites like this one! >>> >>>http://www.v-vocal.com/ >> >> I've not had this problem, because I always "bounce to clip" after I >> tune a clip. Many years ago when many noticed instability with V-vocal >> clips, this was the recommended procedure. Never leave a clip as a >> v-vocal clip. >> >> The kiss of death is to copy and paste a v-vocal clip. I tried that >> about 2 or 3 times and never did it again. I always first rename a >> file before I start tuning it, so I can always revert back to the >> original unaltered vocal. I notice his workaround for v-vocal is >> underconstruction. I suppose he's post what I've just said as a >> workaround. >> >> I've gotten in the habit of working this way, so I'm not too concerned >> about them fixing this, although it's pretty lame and pathetic that >> it's never been fixed. Is there no shame left in the corporate world? > > I only tried using VVocal a few times and every time it was buggy so I > quit > using it altogether. In general if I don't like a vocal part due to > pitch, > I just re-sing it until I do like it. Still, Cake should either fix or > scrap bugged up stuff like this and not let it go for 5 years and 5 > versions. As a developer, I'd either block access to doing what's broken, > fix it, or scrap the module all together, but I wouldn't leave something > in > the software that can almost crash it on demand. > > -- > Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email > ________ __ > / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ > / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ > / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / > \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo > Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits > Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
The killer robot "Neil Rutman" <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > I do what Gerry doesandusev-vocal virtually problem free. But if you are new Sonar user and you don't know to do that, you see your software as being buggy and un-trustworty. They should fix it. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
I submitted several reproducible bug reports early on for v-vocal, none are fixed AFAICT. But then neither are the reproducible bugs I submitted for Sonar 3 and 4. Cake is nothing if not consistent. :-/ -- Sue Morton "Glennbo" <> wrote in message news:Xns9DEE63CEC69BDBrownShoesDontMakeIt@188.40.43.230... > The killer robot "Neil Rutman" <> grabbed the > controls > of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > >> I do what Gerry doesandusev-vocal virtually problem free. > > But if you are new Sonar user and you don't know to do that, you see > your > software as being buggy and un-trustworty. They should fix it.
The killer robot "Sue Morton" <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > I submitted several reproducible bug reports early on for v-vocal, none > are fixed AFAICT. But then neither are the reproducible bugs I > submitted for Sonar 3 and 4. Cake is nothing if not consistent. :-/ I think a lot of it stems from the fact that a lot of the code was not written by people who currently work for Cake. VVocal is a Roland thing that was included before Roland bought them. Many bugs in the core software were introduced when Ron (IT'S MY KITCHEN, MINE I TELL YA!!!) Kuper was doing a lot of the programming. He no longer is a developer for Cake, so someone else must try to decipher his code and fix things in it. That's one big advantage I think brand "R" has. The guy who wrote it is still the same guy continuing to write it and is able to fix bugs fast because he is extremely familiar with the guts of the code. >>> I do what Gerry doesandusev-vocal virtually problem free. >> >> But if you are new Sonar user and you don't know to do that, you see >> your software as being buggy and un-trustworty. They should fix it. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 14:48:41 +0000 (UTC), Glennbo <> wrote: >The killer robot "Neil Rutman" <> grabbed the controls >of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > >> I do what Gerry doesandusev-vocal virtually problem free. > >But if you are new Sonar user and you don't know to do that, you see your >software as being buggy and un-trustworty. They should fix it. You're right. I like V-vocal a whole lot more than auto-tune. The only bug I even encounter with V-Vocal is a rare instance where I get a phasing effect. When that happens I remove V-vocal from that word and if I still want to tune it, I then use auto-tune. Other than that it's bug free using it the way I use it. I have a macro set up where I highlight a vocal phrase and hit Control-Alt-V and it opens the V-Vocal screen maximizes it to fill my whole computer screen, then it fits the waveform perfectly into the whole screen and then tunes it. That's a good starting point to start manually adjusting the vocal. Sometimes no adjustment is needed. -- Gerry Peters
On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 15:15:22 +0000 (UTC), Glennbo <> wrote: >The killer robot "Sue Morton" <> grabbed the >controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > >> I submitted several reproducible bug reports early on for v-vocal, none >> are fixed AFAICT. But then neither are the reproducible bugs I >> submitted for Sonar 3 and 4. Cake is nothing if not consistent. :-/ > >I think a lot of it stems from the fact that a lot of the code was not >written by people who currently work for Cake. VVocal is a Roland thing >that was included before Roland bought them. Many bugs in the core >software were introduced when Ron (IT'S MY KITCHEN, MINE I TELL YA!!!) >Kuper was doing a lot of the programming. He no longer is a developer for >Cake, so someone else must try to decipher his code and fix things in it. >That's one big advantage Well that explains why it's not fixed. I have more sympathy and understanding for them not fixing it. I think at minimum they should be upfront in the help file and explain about the code decipher and give the workaround instead of someone thinking this is a lame buggy product. -- Gerry Peters
The killer robot Gerry Peters <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... >>I think a lot of it stems from the fact that a lot of the code was not >>written by people who currently work for Cake. VVocal is a Roland >>thing that was included before Roland bought them. Many bugs in the >>core software were introduced when Ron (IT'S MY KITCHEN, MINE I TELL >>YA!!!) Kuper was doing a lot of the programming. He no longer is a >>developer for Cake, so someone else must try to decipher his code and >>fix things in it. That's one big advantage > > Well that explains why it's not fixed. I have more sympathy and > understanding for them not fixing it. I think at minimum they should > be upfront in the help file and explain about the code decipher and > give the workaround instead of someone thinking this is a lame buggy > product. They should at least make it so it only works with a bounce, so you can't leave a clip in a state that might crash the whole program. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
Brand "R" LOL. I was actually thinking about buying the upgrade to play with V-vocal, but I'm going to give reatune a try when I get everything set up first. > I think a lot of it stems from the fact that a lot of the code was not > written by people who currently work for Cake. VVocal is a Roland thing > that was included before Roland bought them. Many bugs in the core > software were introduced when Ron (IT'S MY KITCHEN, MINE I TELL YA!!!) > Kuper was doing a lot of the programming. He no longer is a developer for > Cake, so someone else must try to decipher his code and fix things in it. > That's one big advantage I think brand "R" has. The guy who wrote it is > still the same guy continuing to write it and is able to fix bugs fast > because he is extremely familiar with the guts of the code.
The killer robot "Bob Donald" <> grabbed the controls of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... > Brand "R" LOL. I was actually thinking about buying the upgrade to > play with V-vocal, but I'm going to give reatune a try when I get > everything set up first. I've barely played with ReaTune, but it seemed very stable, and I believe it employs the same incredible "Elastique" pitch stretching engine that is used elsewhere in "R". >> I think a lot of it stems from the fact that a lot of the code was >> not written by people who currently work for Cake. VVocal is a >> Roland thing that was included before Roland bought them. Many bugs >> in the core software were introduced when Ron (IT'S MY KITCHEN, MINE >> I TELL YA!!!) Kuper was doing a lot of the programming. He no longer >> is a developer for Cake, so someone else must try to decipher his >> code and fix things in it. That's one big advantage I think brand "R" >> has. The guy who wrote it is still the same guy continuing to write >> it and is able to fix bugs fast because he is extremely familiar with >> the guts of the code. -- Remove YourHeadFromYourAss to Reply by email ________ __ / ____/ /__ ____ ____ / /_ ____ / / __/ / _ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \/ __ \ / /_/ / / __/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ / \____/_/\___/_/ /_/_/ /_/_.___/\____/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Glennbo http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo Non-Linear Sound http://www.soundclick.com/jambits Hear My Music http://www.soundclick.com/ThePseudonyms
I can't recall ever having had any problems with V-Vocal on the stability front, but, then again, I've always used it as a destructive effect like Gerry does because that's also the way I've used AutoTune for manual tuning. I still prefer AutoTune for all lead vocals, because I've never quite been able to figure out how to get V-Vocal to not give at least a slightly phasey, or at least electronic-sounding, effect and I absolutely hate their version of a pencil tool, which I find very hard to control with a mouse. However, I have used V-Vocal quite a bit for background vocals, where the slight lack of transparency isn't as important, and where I sometimes want to use the time alignment features, which AutoTune doesn't have, to tighten things against the lead vocal. That said, once I upgraded from AutoTune 4 to AutoTune Evo, I started using AutoTune more for background vocals, too, because Evo is a lot quicker to use with the new note-drawing tool (alongside some tuning speed tweaks to avoid the robotic effect), and the savings in time is significant. I can always use V-Vocal for time alignment in a separate pass if I really need that. Rick -- ======================================= Rick Paul Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP) Web: www.RickPaul.info MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic ======================================= "Gerry Peters" <> wrote in message news:... > On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 14:48:41 +0000 (UTC), Glennbo > <> wrote: > >>The killer robot "Neil Rutman" <> grabbed the >>controls >>of the spaceship cakewalk.audio and pressed these buttons... >> >>> I do what Gerry doesandusev-vocal virtually problem free. >> >>But if you are new Sonar user and you don't know to do that, you see your >>software as being buggy and un-trustworty. They should fix it. > > You're right. I like V-vocal a whole lot more than auto-tune. The only > bug I even encounter with V-Vocal is a rare instance where I get a > phasing effect. When that happens I remove V-vocal from that word and > if I still want to tune it, I then use auto-tune. Other than that it's > bug free using it the way I use it. > > I have a macro set up where I highlight a vocal phrase and hit > Control-Alt-V and it opens the V-Vocal screen maximizes it to fill my > whole computer screen, then it fits the waveform perfectly into the > whole screen and then tunes it. That's a good starting point to start > manually adjusting the vocal. Sometimes no adjustment is needed. > -- > Gerry Peters
On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:16:30 -0700, "Rick Paul" <> wrote: >I can't recall ever having had any problems with V-Vocal on the stability >front, but, then again, I've always used it as a destructive effect like >Gerry does because that's also the way I've used AutoTune for manual tuning. >I still prefer AutoTune for all lead vocals, because I've never quite been >able to figure out how to get V-Vocal to not give at least a slightly >phasey, or at least electronic-sounding, effect whenever I get that, I use the eraser tool to erase a little before and a little after it. Most of the time that removes it, sometimes I have to redo the V-vocal slip being careful to leave out that word which was phasing. Occasionally you can manually tune that note, other times I just open auto-tune and tune that word. Sometimes I can work for many hours and never get the phasing effect and other times I get it maybe 3 times during one song. It seems to be worse with some singers, maybe you're one of those singers that it picks on. >and I absolutely hate their >version of a pencil tool, which I find very hard to control with a mouse. >However, I have used V-Vocal quite a bit for background vocals, where the >slight lack of transparency isn't as important, and where I sometimes want >to use the time alignment features, which AutoTune doesn't have, to tighten >things against the lead vocal. I find the format tool works well when you have to tune a note which is close to a half step off and you start getting a little of the munchkin or darth vader effect. It knocks it out pretty well > I can >always use V-Vocal for time alignment in a separate pass if I really need >that. that is a pretty amazingeffect, you can even simulate a ritard with it -- Gerry Peters
"Gerry Peters" <> wrote in message news:... > On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:16:30 -0700, "Rick Paul" > <> wrote: >>I still prefer AutoTune for all lead vocals, because I've never quite been >>able to figure out how to get V-Vocal to not give at least a slightly >>phasey, or at least electronic-sounding, effect > > whenever I get that, I use the eraser tool to erase a little before > and a little after it. Most of the time that removes it, sometimes I > have to redo the V-vocal slip being careful to leave out that word > which was phasing. Occasionally you can manually tune that note, other > times I just open auto-tune and tune that word. Sometimes I can work > for many hours and never get the phasing effect and other times I get I pretty much always get it. It's not a super-obvious thing, perhaps no different than if you were to use a mic that had some electronic character to it or something, but it's still sufficiently non-transparent that I don't want to use it on an exposed vocal in most context. I have actually used it a few times in modern pop-type stuff where it wouldn't be unusual to have even more egregious electronic effects. > it maybe 3 times during one song. It seems to be worse with some > singers, maybe you're one of those singers that it picks on. Yeah, that might well be. I think I probably have a fairly high balance of air and/or overtones in my voice much of the time, and that kind of stuff isn't super-friendly to pitch detection algorithms. AutoTune sometimes misses notes, too, but it doesn't even try to tune what it misses, so it's more or less like bypassing the effect on those parts. > I find the format tool works well when you have to tune a note which > is close to a half step off and you start getting a little of the > munchkin or darth vader effect. It knocks it out pretty well I assume you mean the formant tool? I haven't played with that much, but, from the little I have (and I may well have actually used it beyond playing a few times) I can appreciate how it could be useful at times. Since I'm mainly using V-Vocal on BGVs, though, and I usually double those anyway, I haven't generally cared so much if a slight hint of munchkin or Darth Vader effect creeps in. >> I can >>always use V-Vocal for time alignment in a separate pass if I really need >>that. > > that is a pretty amazingeffect, you can even simulate a ritard with > it I've mostly used it for cleaning up sloppy note lengths in BGVs. The need to do that owes in part to my making the parts up as I go, and generally only starting to learn them decently around the third take, and not necessarily even getting it tight by then. And I typically only do about 5 takes to get me one doubled part. That and not having the world's greatest breath support, so too often running out of air before the end of a long note at the end of a phrase. It just depends on the song and its style, though, whether I care all that much about tightness. Rick -- ======================================= Rick Paul Closet Cowboy Music (ASCAP) Web: www.RickPaul.info MySpace: www.myspace.com/rickpaulmusic =======================================
