why do my instrumentals sound so cheesy?

http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

all made entirely with Cubase SX3

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
<> wrote:

>http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
>
>all made entirely with Cubase SX3
>
The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
sound modules you use and the way you mix them....

"Bas" <> wrote in message
news:...
> On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
> <> wrote:
>
>>http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
>>
>>all made entirely with Cubase SX3
>>
> The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
> sound modules you use and the way you mix them....

See, this is the sort of thing I don't understand

Cubase comes packaged with MIDI

and VST Instruments - which sound even cheesier than the MIDI

what sort of sound modules do you mean?

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:44:25 +0100, "Gill Smith"
<> wrote:

>"Bas" <> wrote in message
>news:...
>> On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
>> <> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
>>>
>>>all made entirely with Cubase SX3
>>>
>> The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
>> sound modules you use and the way you mix them....
>
>See, this is the sort of thing I don't understand
>
>Cubase comes packaged with MIDI
>
>and VST Instruments - which sound even cheesier than the MIDI
>
>what sort of sound modules do you mean?

Gill - how are you creating these tracks? Forget the sounds for a
moment, how are the actual notes being played? I don't, to be blunt,
hear a lot of musical skill. More like it's been done in
Band-in-a-Box or a nasty Casio auto-play keyboard.

CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm

"Laurence Payne" <> wrote in message
news:...

> Gill - how are you creating these tracks? Forget the sounds for a
> moment, how are the actual notes being played? I don't, to be blunt,
> hear a lot of musical skill. More like it's been done in
> Band-in-a-Box or a nasty Casio auto-play keyboard.

It is indeed 'a nasty Casio' (WK-1200)!

though a lot of the muisc (i.e. chords in the accompaninment) I enter by
hand

this makes a difference???!!!

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

"Gill Smith" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Laurence Payne" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>
>> Gill - how are you creating these tracks? Forget the sounds for a
>> moment, how are the actual notes being played? I don't, to be blunt,
>> hear a lot of musical skill. More like it's been done in
>> Band-in-a-Box or a nasty Casio auto-play keyboard.
>
> It is indeed 'a nasty Casio' (WK-1200)!
>
> though a lot of the muisc (i.e. chords in the accompaninment) I enter by
> hand
>
> this makes a difference???!!!

P.S. I should explain: ALL the music is delivered into Cubase as MIDi

the only thing that gets 'played to air' is the vocals

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

> CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm

whoa, I think I better have a good read of this before I ask any more
questions!

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

Gill Smith a écrit :
>> CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
>
> whoa, I think I better have a good read of this before I ask any more
> questions!

You see Laurence, when one discovbers this FAQ of yours, it always stops
any "newbie" thread (no disrespect intented, Gill, we all have question
that seems silly to others).

I thought that the famous * "how come the sound I hear when I monitor a
recording in progress is not the same as what I hear when I play it back
afterward?" * was included in your FAQ. BUt it must be somewhere else.

Huey

"Gill Smith" <> wrote in message
news:...
> "Bas" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
>> <> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
>>>
>>>all made entirely with Cubase SX3
>>>
>> The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
>> sound modules you use and the way you mix them....
>
> See, this is the sort of thing I don't understand
>
> Cubase comes packaged with MIDI
>
> and VST Instruments - which sound even cheesier than the MIDI
>
> what sort of sound modules do you mean?
>
> --
> http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

Gill

I am re-recording a lot of my old tracks I created away back in the late 80s
on my old Fostex X15, Synsonics drum machine and Casio CZ101. In Cubase (SX3
is what I have) the VST instruments are excellent if they are used propely
and in the right context. However, I am still using a CZ1000 a lot, and I
have samples of the Synsonics drum machine and they will be used because
despite updating all the songs, I don't want to loose the feel and the
emotion of the originals by getting away too much from the original sound
sets.

Sounds will sound cheezy if you use them "cheezily" You could use the most
up to date keyboards etc and still end up sounding cheezy if you use the
wrong sounds. I still have all my old Casios and will be creating a song
using them all..VL1, SK1, PT30, MT68 and CZ1000 and the art is using the
right sounds for the right parts...THEN SMOTHER THEM IN REVERB AND
FLANGER...!! sorry, that was the devil on my shoulder shouting that.

Craig

Craigie a écrit :
>I still have all my old Casios and will be creating a song
> using them all..VL1, SK1, PT30, MT68 and CZ1000 and the art is using the
> right sounds for the right parts...THEN SMOTHER THEM IN REVERB AND
> FLANGER...!! sorry, that was the devil on my shoulder shouting that.

I was sooooo waiting for that "reverb" additionnal suggestion, that was
really funny to actually read it )

Laurence Payne a écrit :
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:44:25 +0100, "Gill Smith"
> <> wrote:
>
>> "Bas" <> wrote in message
>> news:...
>>> On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
>>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
>>>>
>>>> all made entirely with Cubase SX3
>>>>
>>> The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
>>> sound modules you use and the way you mix them....
>> See, this is the sort of thing I don't understand
>>
>> Cubase comes packaged with MIDI
>>
>> and VST Instruments - which sound even cheesier than the MIDI
>>
>> what sort of sound modules do you mean?
>
> Gill - how are you creating these tracks? Forget the sounds for a
> moment, how are the actual notes being played? I don't, to be blunt,
> hear a lot of musical skill. More like it's been done in
> Band-in-a-Box or a nasty Casio auto-play keyboard.
>
> CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
Blunt you are, and you should be thankful you can still hear...
Hello, excuse my intruding, english is not my mother's language and I
did read about "cheesy" sounds in Computer Music magazine, which could
make it through to Montauban France ten years ago : now, thanks to you
Gil Smith, I can hear what it meant !
May I say, coming from a country known for its skills in cheese-making,
that it is a bit insulting, having those toyish sounds called cheesy ?
But I should not expect anything else from someone in any way related to
a country whose only edible cheese is called the "stinking bishop" !
Vive le fromage !
Olivier

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:13:22 +0200, Hueyduck <>
wrote:

>Gill Smith a écrit :
>>> CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
>>
>> whoa, I think I better have a good read of this before I ask any more
>> questions!
>
>You see Laurence, when one discovbers this FAQ of yours, it always stops
>any "newbie" thread (no disrespect intented, Gill, we all have question
>that seems silly to others).
>
>I thought that the famous * "how come the sound I hear when I monitor a
>recording in progress is not the same as what I hear when I play it back
>afterward?" * was included in your FAQ. BUt it must be somewhere else.

Write it and I'll consider adding it

CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm

On Jul 19, 5:00 pm, "Gill Smith" <>
wrote:
> http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
>
> all made entirely with Cubase SX3

You have an interesting voice...try cutting down the instrumentation
to a single and simple piano sound and build from there. As soon as it
starts sounding cheesy, take away what you just added.

Keep at her, CS

"Olivier" <> wrote in message
news:4a65c429$0$298$-internet.fr...
> Blunt you are, and you should be thankful you can still hear...
> Hello, excuse my intruding, english is not my mother's language and I
> did read about "cheesy" sounds in Computer Music magazine, which could
> make it through to Montauban France ten years ago : now, thanks to you
> Gil Smith, I can hear what it meant !
> May I say, coming from a country known for its skills in cheese-making,
> that it is a bit insulting, having those toyish sounds called cheesy ?
> But I should not expect anything else from someone in any way related to
> a country whose only edible cheese is called the "stinking bishop" !
> Vive le fromage !
> Olivier

This is what I don't understand.

I've seen pros entering MIDI into their music-making software using 'toy'
(12-note) keyboards

but it doesn't matter, because it's the clever programme makes the music,
not the keyboard

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:39:36 +0100, "Gill Smith"
<> wrote:
>This is what I don't understand.
>
>I've seen pros entering MIDI into their music-making software using 'toy'
>(12-note) keyboards
>
>but it doesn't matter, because it's the clever programme makes the music,
>not the keyboard

But if you are using the standard cubase sound modules that come with
sx3, you are a pro indeed if the end result doesn't sound cheesy

On 21 July, 21:11, Cyberserf <> wrote:
> On Jul 19, 5:00 pm, "Gill Smith" <>
> wrote:
>
> >http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
>
> > all made entirely with Cubase SX3
>
> You have an interesting voice...

Heh, praise indeed.

Because of all my musical delusions, singing was never one of them.



> ...try cutting down the
> instrumentation
> to a single and simple piano sound and build from there. As soon as it
> starts sounding cheesy, take away what you just added.

Useful tip.



> Keep at her, CS

I'm too far gone to back out now!


--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

On Jul 22, 5:39 am, "Gill Smith" <>
wrote:
> "Olivier" <> wrote in message
>
> news:4a65c429$0$298$-internet.fr...
>
> > Blunt you are, and you should be thankful you can still hear...
> > Hello, excuse my intruding, english is not my mother's language and I
> > did read about "cheesy" sounds in Computer Music magazine, which could
> > make it through to Montauban France ten years ago : now, thanks to you
> > Gil Smith, I can hear what it meant !
> > May I say, coming from a country known for its skills in cheese-making,
> > that it is a bit insulting, having those toyish sounds called cheesy ?
> > But I should not expect anything else from someone in any way related to
> > a country whose only edible cheese is called the "stinking bishop" !
> > Vive le fromage !
> > Olivier
>
> This is what I don't understand.
>
> I've seen pros entering MIDI into their music-making software using 'toy'
> (12-note) keyboards
>
> but it doesn't matter, because it's the clever programme makes the music,
> not the keyboard
>
> --http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

Actually, it's the sound module that the midi programming is driving
that makes it all sound great (or bad). If you play the same midi
track through cheap software modules (like those that can be loaded
into a soundblaster card), it may sound cheesy...drive that same midi
program through an Edirol SD20, Roland DD550 or an EMU outboard and
you'll hear high quality playback because the sounds (GM and GS) are
more natural and there are more "sounds" for each instrument (so that
you get better expression) and they are multitimbral. The guitar patch
sounds like a guitar, the dynamics, glissendos, vibratos and other
parameters don't simply tweak a sound, they actually use a seperate
sound for each technique. Check this out for a detailed explanation:

http://www.tweakheadz.com/midi_synth_modules.htm

Indeed, some of these units are both synth modules and
samplers...allowing you to create your own patches...and play the
sounds back using any old keys with midi cables....the cheese may not
be with the program, but with the playback.

Regards, CS

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:34:37 -0700 (PDT), Cyberserf
<> wrote:

>If you play the same midi
>track through cheap software modules (like those that can be loaded
>into a soundblaster card), it may sound cheesy...drive that same midi
>program through an Edirol SD20, Roland DD550 or an EMU outboard and
>you'll hear high quality playback because the sounds (GM and GS) are
>more natural and there are more "sounds" for each instrument (so that
>you get better expression) and they are multitimbral.

But if it's a cheesy MIDI track, constructed by a Casio auto-play
engine or step-entered by someone who can't play, it's going to sound
cheesy on any playback system.

CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm

On Jul 23, 5:04 pm, Laurence Payne <> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:34:37 -0700 (PDT), Cyberserf
>
> <> wrote:
> >If you play the same midi
> >track through cheap software modules (like those that can be loaded
> >into a soundblaster card), it may sound cheesy...drive that same midi
> >program through an Edirol SD20, Roland DD550 or an EMU outboard and
> >you'll hear high quality playback because the sounds (GM and GS) are
> >more natural and there are more "sounds" for each instrument (so that
> >you get better expression) and they are multitimbral.
>
> But if it's a cheesy MIDI track, constructed by a Casio auto-play
> engine or step-entered by someone who can't play, it's going to sound
> cheesy on any playback system.
>
> CubaseFAQ page:http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm

No doubt you are correct...the performance certainly counts for
something, but I remember getting a midi track for "Tears in Heaven"
that was passed to me by my old guitar instructor. He played it
through his outboard and it sounded brilliant...very realistic
guitars, great expression on the bass, fantastic drums and all in all,
a great arrangement. When I brought it home and played it back on my
software only GM/GS (Edirol VSC Virtual Sound Canvas) it
sounded...well...like a cheesy midi track...plinky guitars and shallow
bass, not depth at all to the drums...like a toy....played on a
Sounblaster with the 8Mb Soundfont pack loaded, it was even
worse...played through my Fantom XR outboard module, it came right
back to life...in a huge way. You don't have to spend $1200 on a
module, but it helps and might change the Gorgonzola to a nice mild
Cheddar.

Regards, CS

On 23 July, 12:34, Cyberserf <> wrote:
> On Jul 22, 5:39 am, "Gill Smith" <>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Olivier" <> wrote in message
>
> >news:4a65c429$0$298$-internet.fr...
>
> > > Blunt you are, and you should be thankful you can still hear...
> > > Hello, excuse my intruding, english is not my mother's language and I
> > > did read about "cheesy" sounds in Computer Music magazine, which could
> > > make it through to Montauban France ten years ago : now, thanks to you
> > > Gil Smith, I can hear what it meant !
> > > May I say, coming from a country known for its skills in
> > > cheese-making,
> > > that it is a bit insulting, having those toyish sounds called cheesy ?
> > > But I should not expect anything else from someone in any way related
> > > to
> > > a country whose only edible cheese is called the "stinking bishop" !
> > > Vive le fromage !
> > > Olivier
>
> > This is what I don't understand.
>
> > I've seen pros entering MIDI into their music-making software using
> > 'toy'
> > (12-note) keyboards
>
> > but it doesn't matter, because it's the clever programme makes the
> > music,
> > not the keyboard
>
> > --http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
>
> Actually, it's the sound module that the midi programming is driving
> that makes it all sound great (or bad). If you play the same midi
> track through cheap software modules (like those that can be loaded
> into a soundblaster card), it may sound cheesy...drive that same midi
> program through an Edirol SD20, Roland DD550 or an EMU outboard and
> you'll hear high quality playback because the sounds (GM and GS) are
> more natural and there are more "sounds" for each instrument (so that
> you get better expression) and they are multitimbral. The guitar patch
> sounds like a guitar, the dynamics, glissendos, vibratos and other
> parameters don't simply tweak a sound, they actually use a seperate
> sound for each technique. Check this out for a detailed explanation:
>
> http://www.tweakheadz.com/midi_synth_modules.htm

Hey, this looks useful

I'll be back......

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

> Indeed, some of these units are both synth modules and
> samplers...allowing you to create your own patches...and play the
> sounds back using any old keys with midi cables....the cheese may not
> be with the program, but with the playback.
>
> Regards, CS