why do my instrumentals sound so cheesy?

Discussion in 'alt.steinberg.cubase' started by Gill Smith, Jul 19, 2009.

  1. Gill Smith Guest

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  2. Bas Guest

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    On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
    <> wrote:

    >http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
    >
    >all made entirely with Cubase SX3
    >

    The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
    sound modules you use and the way you mix them....
  3. Gill Smith Guest

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    "Bas" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
    >>
    >>all made entirely with Cubase SX3
    >>

    > The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
    > sound modules you use and the way you mix them....


    See, this is the sort of thing I don't understand

    Cubase comes packaged with MIDI

    and VST Instruments - which sound even cheesier than the MIDI

    what sort of sound modules do you mean?

    --
    http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
  4. Laurence Payne Guest

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    On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:44:25 +0100, "Gill Smith"
    <> wrote:

    >"Bas" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
    >>>
    >>>all made entirely with Cubase SX3
    >>>

    >> The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
    >> sound modules you use and the way you mix them....

    >
    >See, this is the sort of thing I don't understand
    >
    >Cubase comes packaged with MIDI
    >
    >and VST Instruments - which sound even cheesier than the MIDI
    >
    >what sort of sound modules do you mean?


    Gill - how are you creating these tracks? Forget the sounds for a
    moment, how are the actual notes being played? I don't, to be blunt,
    hear a lot of musical skill. More like it's been done in
    Band-in-a-Box or a nasty Casio auto-play keyboard.

    CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
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  5. Gill Smith Guest

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    "Laurence Payne" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Gill - how are you creating these tracks? Forget the sounds for a
    > moment, how are the actual notes being played? I don't, to be blunt,
    > hear a lot of musical skill. More like it's been done in
    > Band-in-a-Box or a nasty Casio auto-play keyboard.


    It is indeed 'a nasty Casio' (WK-1200)!

    though a lot of the muisc (i.e. chords in the accompaninment) I enter by
    hand

    this makes a difference???!!!

    --
    http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
  6. Gill Smith Guest

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    "Gill Smith" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Laurence Payne" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> Gill - how are you creating these tracks? Forget the sounds for a
    >> moment, how are the actual notes being played? I don't, to be blunt,
    >> hear a lot of musical skill. More like it's been done in
    >> Band-in-a-Box or a nasty Casio auto-play keyboard.

    >
    > It is indeed 'a nasty Casio' (WK-1200)!
    >
    > though a lot of the muisc (i.e. chords in the accompaninment) I enter by
    > hand
    >
    > this makes a difference???!!!


    P.S. I should explain: ALL the music is delivered into Cubase as MIDi

    the only thing that gets 'played to air' is the vocals

    --
    http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
  7. Gill Smith Guest

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  8. Hueyduck Guest

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    Gill Smith a écrit :
    >> CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm

    >
    > whoa, I think I better have a good read of this before I ask any more
    > questions!


    You see Laurence, when one discovbers this FAQ of yours, it always stops
    any "newbie" thread (no disrespect intented, Gill, we all have question
    that seems silly to others).

    I thought that the famous * "how come the sound I hear when I monitor a
    recording in progress is not the same as what I hear when I play it back
    afterward?" * was included in your FAQ. BUt it must be somewhere else.

    Huey
  9. Craigie Guest

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    "Gill Smith" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Bas" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
    >>>
    >>>all made entirely with Cubase SX3
    >>>

    >> The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
    >> sound modules you use and the way you mix them....

    >
    > See, this is the sort of thing I don't understand
    >
    > Cubase comes packaged with MIDI
    >
    > and VST Instruments - which sound even cheesier than the MIDI
    >
    > what sort of sound modules do you mean?
    >
    > --
    > http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/


    Gill

    I am re-recording a lot of my old tracks I created away back in the late 80s
    on my old Fostex X15, Synsonics drum machine and Casio CZ101. In Cubase (SX3
    is what I have) the VST instruments are excellent if they are used propely
    and in the right context. However, I am still using a CZ1000 a lot, and I
    have samples of the Synsonics drum machine and they will be used because
    despite updating all the songs, I don't want to loose the feel and the
    emotion of the originals by getting away too much from the original sound
    sets.

    Sounds will sound cheezy if you use them "cheezily" You could use the most
    up to date keyboards etc and still end up sounding cheezy if you use the
    wrong sounds. I still have all my old Casios and will be creating a song
    using them all..VL1, SK1, PT30, MT68 and CZ1000 and the art is using the
    right sounds for the right parts...THEN SMOTHER THEM IN REVERB AND
    FLANGER...!! sorry, that was the devil on my shoulder shouting that.

    Craig
  10. Hueyduck Guest

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    Craigie a écrit :
    >I still have all my old Casios and will be creating a song
    > using them all..VL1, SK1, PT30, MT68 and CZ1000 and the art is using the
    > right sounds for the right parts...THEN SMOTHER THEM IN REVERB AND
    > FLANGER...!! sorry, that was the devil on my shoulder shouting that.


    I was sooooo waiting for that "reverb" additionnal suggestion, that was
    really funny to actually read it :))
  11. Olivier Guest

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    Laurence Payne a écrit :
    > On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:44:25 +0100, "Gill Smith"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> "Bas" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:59 +0100, "Gill Smith"
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
    >>>>
    >>>> all made entirely with Cubase SX3
    >>>>
    >>> The cheesy sound doesn't have so much to do with Cubase, more with the
    >>> sound modules you use and the way you mix them....

    >> See, this is the sort of thing I don't understand
    >>
    >> Cubase comes packaged with MIDI
    >>
    >> and VST Instruments - which sound even cheesier than the MIDI
    >>
    >> what sort of sound modules do you mean?

    >
    > Gill - how are you creating these tracks? Forget the sounds for a
    > moment, how are the actual notes being played? I don't, to be blunt,
    > hear a lot of musical skill. More like it's been done in
    > Band-in-a-Box or a nasty Casio auto-play keyboard.
    >
    > CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm

    Blunt you are, and you should be thankful you can still hear...
    Hello, excuse my intruding, english is not my mother's language and I
    did read about "cheesy" sounds in Computer Music magazine, which could
    make it through to Montauban France ten years ago : now, thanks to you
    Gil Smith, I can hear what it meant !
    May I say, coming from a country known for its skills in cheese-making,
    that it is a bit insulting, having those toyish sounds called cheesy ?
    But I should not expect anything else from someone in any way related to
    a country whose only edible cheese is called the "stinking bishop" !
    Vive le fromage !
    Olivier
  12. Laurence Payne Guest

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    On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:13:22 +0200, Hueyduck <>
    wrote:

    >Gill Smith a écrit :
    >>> CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm

    >>
    >> whoa, I think I better have a good read of this before I ask any more
    >> questions!

    >
    >You see Laurence, when one discovbers this FAQ of yours, it always stops
    >any "newbie" thread (no disrespect intented, Gill, we all have question
    >that seems silly to others).
    >
    >I thought that the famous * "how come the sound I hear when I monitor a
    >recording in progress is not the same as what I hear when I play it back
    >afterward?" * was included in your FAQ. BUt it must be somewhere else.


    Write it and I'll consider adding it :)

    CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
  13. Cyberserf Guest

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    On Jul 19, 5:00 pm, "Gill Smith" <>
    wrote:
    > http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
    >
    > all made entirely with Cubase SX3


    You have an interesting voice...try cutting down the instrumentation
    to a single and simple piano sound and build from there. As soon as it
    starts sounding cheesy, take away what you just added.

    Keep at her, CS
  14. Gill Smith Guest

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    "Olivier" <> wrote in message
    news:4a65c429$0$298$-internet.fr...
    > Blunt you are, and you should be thankful you can still hear...
    > Hello, excuse my intruding, english is not my mother's language and I
    > did read about "cheesy" sounds in Computer Music magazine, which could
    > make it through to Montauban France ten years ago : now, thanks to you
    > Gil Smith, I can hear what it meant !
    > May I say, coming from a country known for its skills in cheese-making,
    > that it is a bit insulting, having those toyish sounds called cheesy ?
    > But I should not expect anything else from someone in any way related to
    > a country whose only edible cheese is called the "stinking bishop" !
    > Vive le fromage !
    > Olivier


    This is what I don't understand.

    I've seen pros entering MIDI into their music-making software using 'toy'
    (12-note) keyboards

    but it doesn't matter, because it's the clever programme makes the music,
    not the keyboard

    --
    http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
  15. Bas Guest

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    On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:39:36 +0100, "Gill Smith"
    <> wrote:
    >This is what I don't understand.
    >
    >I've seen pros entering MIDI into their music-making software using 'toy'
    >(12-note) keyboards
    >
    >but it doesn't matter, because it's the clever programme makes the music,
    >not the keyboard


    But if you are using the standard cubase sound modules that come with
    sx3, you are a pro indeed if the end result doesn't sound cheesy :p
  16. Gill Smith Guest

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    On 21 July, 21:11, Cyberserf <> wrote:
    > On Jul 19, 5:00 pm, "Gill Smith" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

    >
    > > all made entirely with Cubase SX3

    >
    > You have an interesting voice...


    Heh, praise indeed.

    Because of all my musical delusions, singing was never one of them.



    > ...try cutting down the
    > instrumentation
    > to a single and simple piano sound and build from there. As soon as it
    > starts sounding cheesy, take away what you just added.


    Useful tip.



    > Keep at her, CS


    I'm too far gone to back out now!


    --
    http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
  17. Cyberserf Guest

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    On Jul 22, 5:39 am, "Gill Smith" <>
    wrote:
    > "Olivier" <> wrote in message
    >
    > news:4a65c429$0$298$-internet.fr...
    >
    > > Blunt you are, and you should be thankful you can still hear...
    > > Hello, excuse my intruding, english is not my mother's language and I
    > > did read about "cheesy" sounds in Computer Music magazine, which could
    > > make it through to Montauban France ten years ago : now, thanks to you
    > > Gil Smith, I can hear what it meant !
    > > May I say, coming from a country known for its skills in cheese-making,
    > > that it is a bit insulting, having those toyish sounds called cheesy ?
    > > But I should not expect anything else from someone in any way related to
    > > a country whose only edible cheese is called the "stinking bishop" !
    > > Vive le fromage !
    > > Olivier

    >
    > This is what I don't understand.
    >
    > I've seen pros entering MIDI into their music-making software using 'toy'
    > (12-note) keyboards
    >
    > but it doesn't matter, because it's the clever programme makes the music,
    > not the keyboard
    >
    > --http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/


    Actually, it's the sound module that the midi programming is driving
    that makes it all sound great (or bad). If you play the same midi
    track through cheap software modules (like those that can be loaded
    into a soundblaster card), it may sound cheesy...drive that same midi
    program through an Edirol SD20, Roland DD550 or an EMU outboard and
    you'll hear high quality playback because the sounds (GM and GS) are
    more natural and there are more "sounds" for each instrument (so that
    you get better expression) and they are multitimbral. The guitar patch
    sounds like a guitar, the dynamics, glissendos, vibratos and other
    parameters don't simply tweak a sound, they actually use a seperate
    sound for each technique. Check this out for a detailed explanation:

    http://www.tweakheadz.com/midi_synth_modules.htm

    Indeed, some of these units are both synth modules and
    samplers...allowing you to create your own patches...and play the
    sounds back using any old keys with midi cables....the cheese may not
    be with the program, but with the playback.

    Regards, CS
  18. Laurence Payne Guest

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    On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:34:37 -0700 (PDT), Cyberserf
    <> wrote:

    >If you play the same midi
    >track through cheap software modules (like those that can be loaded
    >into a soundblaster card), it may sound cheesy...drive that same midi
    >program through an Edirol SD20, Roland DD550 or an EMU outboard and
    >you'll hear high quality playback because the sounds (GM and GS) are
    >more natural and there are more "sounds" for each instrument (so that
    >you get better expression) and they are multitimbral.


    But if it's a cheesy MIDI track, constructed by a Casio auto-play
    engine or step-entered by someone who can't play, it's going to sound
    cheesy on any playback system.

    CubaseFAQ page: http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
  19. Cyberserf Guest

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    On Jul 23, 5:04 pm, Laurence Payne <> wrote:
    > On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:34:37 -0700 (PDT), Cyberserf
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > >If you play the same midi
    > >track through cheap software modules (like those that can be loaded
    > >into a soundblaster card), it may sound cheesy...drive that same midi
    > >program through an Edirol SD20, Roland DD550 or an EMU outboard and
    > >you'll hear high quality playback because the sounds (GM and GS) are
    > >more natural and there are more "sounds" for each instrument (so that
    > >you get better expression) and they are multitimbral.

    >
    > But if it's a cheesy MIDI track, constructed by a Casio auto-play
    > engine or step-entered by someone who can't play, it's going to sound
    > cheesy on any playback system.
    >
    > CubaseFAQ page:http://www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm


    No doubt you are correct...the performance certainly counts for
    something, but I remember getting a midi track for "Tears in Heaven"
    that was passed to me by my old guitar instructor. He played it
    through his outboard and it sounded brilliant...very realistic
    guitars, great expression on the bass, fantastic drums and all in all,
    a great arrangement. When I brought it home and played it back on my
    software only GM/GS (Edirol VSC Virtual Sound Canvas) it
    sounded...well...like a cheesy midi track...plinky guitars and shallow
    bass, not depth at all to the drums...like a toy....played on a
    Sounblaster with the 8Mb Soundfont pack loaded, it was even
    worse...played through my Fantom XR outboard module, it came right
    back to life...in a huge way. You don't have to spend $1200 on a
    module, but it helps and might change the Gorgonzola to a nice mild
    Cheddar.

    Regards, CS
  20. Gill Smith Guest

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    On 23 July, 12:34, Cyberserf <> wrote:
    > On Jul 22, 5:39 am, "Gill Smith" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > "Olivier" <> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:4a65c429$0$298$-internet.fr...

    >
    > > > Blunt you are, and you should be thankful you can still hear...
    > > > Hello, excuse my intruding, english is not my mother's language and I
    > > > did read about "cheesy" sounds in Computer Music magazine, which could
    > > > make it through to Montauban France ten years ago : now, thanks to you
    > > > Gil Smith, I can hear what it meant !
    > > > May I say, coming from a country known for its skills in
    > > > cheese-making,
    > > > that it is a bit insulting, having those toyish sounds called cheesy ?
    > > > But I should not expect anything else from someone in any way related
    > > > to
    > > > a country whose only edible cheese is called the "stinking bishop" !
    > > > Vive le fromage !
    > > > Olivier

    >
    > > This is what I don't understand.

    >
    > > I've seen pros entering MIDI into their music-making software using
    > > 'toy'
    > > (12-note) keyboards

    >
    > > but it doesn't matter, because it's the clever programme makes the
    > > music,
    > > not the keyboard

    >
    > > --http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

    >
    > Actually, it's the sound module that the midi programming is driving
    > that makes it all sound great (or bad). If you play the same midi
    > track through cheap software modules (like those that can be loaded
    > into a soundblaster card), it may sound cheesy...drive that same midi
    > program through an Edirol SD20, Roland DD550 or an EMU outboard and
    > you'll hear high quality playback because the sounds (GM and GS) are
    > more natural and there are more "sounds" for each instrument (so that
    > you get better expression) and they are multitimbral. The guitar patch
    > sounds like a guitar, the dynamics, glissendos, vibratos and other
    > parameters don't simply tweak a sound, they actually use a seperate
    > sound for each technique. Check this out for a detailed explanation:
    >
    > http://www.tweakheadz.com/midi_synth_modules.htm


    Hey, this looks useful

    I'll be back......

    --
    http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

    > Indeed, some of these units are both synth modules and
    > samplers...allowing you to create your own patches...and play the
    > sounds back using any old keys with midi cables....the cheese may not
    > be with the program, but with the playback.
    >
    > Regards, CS
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