Beginner to MIDI Keys On Stage

[DiegoJersey]

The keyboard player in my band and I are looking to find better and more realistic sounds while also making it easier for him to switch between them and still use only one keyboard.

He's got a Roland Fantom Xa which has some good sounds in it.

I was thinking maybe MIDI was the way to go.

The sounds we use

Piano, B3, Farfisa, Vox Continental, Violin, Strings, Yamaha CS80 Poly Warm Synth, Mellotron Strings, something called Fantasy Pad which sounds like a synthetic glockenspiel with a Mellotron strings patch underneath.

I have no clue where to start, what we'd need or what it would cost so I thought joining here and inquiring would help me in presenting things as an option.

PS my bands a weird mix of musicians. The bass player is really a blues guitarist and the keyboard players a metal drummer...but it works I swear

 

[Ted Nicoson]

Diego

As an old "dyed in the wool" hardware guy that would be very hard pressed to ever haul a computer on stage, I find it difficult to say that, with the variety of specific sounds you are looking for, a top quality dual or quad core high speed laptop (to avoid latency issues) with some top quality VST synth software, MIDI'd to your Fantom Xa, may be your only way to go. I can't imagine finding all of those specific sounds in a single hardware unit, unless possibly the Waldorf Blofeld, Roland Integra-7, or Yamaha Motif XS synth modules (no keyboards). I am certain that any one of them could make just about any sound you are looking for, but if they do not have one or more of them as presets, that puts your keyboard player in the sound design business, and I am not sure you would want that, if he is not already so inclined. That is an art and science in and of itself. Although, you could have that same problem with VST software on a computer. Whatever it does not have as presets you will have to beg, borrow, steal, buy, download, or DIY. The Roland and Yamaha units both come with huge preset sound pallets, while Waldorf offers after market software soundsets for the Blofeld. Any of these units, as well as VST software, allow for tweaking of existing sounds or creation of entirely new sounds. In view of your desire for easy sound selection from the Fantom Xa, a discrete hardware unit would seem the best way to go, but that may be my own personal preferences coloring that. I have an old Roland sound module that I have used to "expand" the sound pallets of various synths throughout the years. While I allow the synth to send note data to the sound module, I never allow it to send program (sound) change data to the module. The few times I tried that, it eventually led to disaster, so I just mount the module above the keyboard and control each of them separately. Kind of like selecting separate sounds from the upper and lower manual controls on an organ.

I wish I had more specific answers for you. Perhaps some of the other folks here can provide more/better suggestions. Best of luck !

 

[goz211]

Welcome to the forum.

Like Ted's reply above - I'd go with hardware too for live band work if he wants to stick with one keyboard. The Fantom series is good.

If money isn't the main consideration - get in touch with the Muse Receptor people, tell them what you want and get them to set it up - order the extra "VSTs" Ted mentions and demo it. They'll know what works with their magic box.

I see from your location you're in Jersey. Assuming that's Jersey home of Bruce and Jon - rather than the island where the wealthy manage to avoid paying tax - there'll be a Muse rep somewhere near you that you can access. It will be thousands of dollars though - maybe 5 or 6 thousand to buy their box, the extra software and rack mount the thing.

Get them to set it up with control change info to switch sounds easily from the Fantom via midi.

 

[happyrat1]

Actually if money is no object, a Muse Receptor Hardware Module might be the way to go.

http://www.museresearch.com/products/index.php

 

[DiegoJersey]

Thanks guys. Muse makes great stuff but nothing we can afford just yet. I was just looking into what options we might have had. I know we use a wide array of keyboard tones, it's what needs to be done around here. Most bands with keys just use them for piano and organ, I wanted to expand that to stand out and honestly, I like the CS80 warm pad sound better than anything else. I'm gonna check out more on Muse.

 

[happyrat1]

If you're budget is tight, take a look at the Peavey Open Box. Originally designed and built by Muse it's a low budget Receptor with about a thousand patches, it has about 2 gigs of RAM and 8 gigs of Flash RAM and sells for under $650 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Peavey-035871...e=UTF8&qid=1393212121&sr=8-1&keywords=musebox

it's only real failing is a lack of expandability but if you're on a tight budget it's a good way to go.

For some reason Muse doesn't list it on their site any longer. It used to be called the Musebox and I guess Peavey either owns a stake in Muse or they sold the technology to them.

Gary

Edit : Peavey still lists it on their site so I guess it's not discontinued.

http://peavey.com/products/musebox/

 

[DiegoJersey]

The Peavey thing sounds great but it takes a min to load which would make me hesitate to say let's get this for the stage but the sounds are excellent and this is something I'll be getting for my home studio very soon.

Also been thinking of getting a Roland Juno 6 or 106 for home studio.

 

[DiegoJersey]

thanks again

check out our stuff www.diegolot25.com

 

[Tuomas Easton]

Don't be afraid to bring a laptop on stage.. I have done it for years now and it has allowed me to use virtually any sound I want using a MIDI controller (keytar). You'll need a MIDI interface for the computer (you can really use any of the dozens available, look into a used one), unless the keyboard has USB, then you can usually just run that instead.

I have a DAW set up as the main 'control center' for the rig, I use the free program REAPER, which is very similar to ProTools.. but not as restrictive and significantly more customizable. You can set different VSTs to each channel, and even add post-effects to them this way.

If you're not familiar with DAWs, there will be a bit of a learning curve, but after years of struggling with live keyboards, I really prefer the flexibility and freedom I've achieved with MIDI vs on-board keyboard sounds.

 

[DiegoJersey]

I have some experience with DAWs but none with MIDI. Thanks. Just one question, how long does it take to switch sounds in a DAW with VST my keyboardist switches sounds often in middle of a song.

 

[Tuomas Easton]

a milisecond? The way I have it set up is my keytar sends 1 of 16 different MIDI channels to the DAW, and each track/sound in the DAW is 'listening' for a different channel. So when I use the patch control on the keytar, (1, 2, 3) it sends ONLY that MIDI channel information to the DAW. It's kind of like soloing the track I want, except they're all always on, just not always enabled if i'm not sending that track's respective MIDI channel.

a thing to note, becaues MIDI signals are on/off, notes will carry over after patch/channel switches until you release the note. example: you're playing a synth solo and you hold down the last note key, and switch the channel, that note will continue to ring out until you release it, and then start playing that new channel's sound.

 

[DiegoJersey]

Thats how my casino works pretty much. That sounds great. That might be the avenue to take. Thanks

 

[Tuomas Easton]

No Problem, glad I could help. Let me know if you have any other questions/problem setting it up.

 

[b3maniac]

This might be a useful link about midi.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~jgglatt/tutr/miditutr.htm
Don