Can I use a yamaha keyboard as a tone generator for my midi keyboard?

Discussion in 'MIDI' started by jhg, May 6, 2017.

  1. jhg

    jhg

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    Hello, I have a Yamaha YPT 220 and a M-Audio Axiom 61 Midi Keyboard, and I want to be able to use the 220's voices for the Axiom. They both have midi in and out, and the USB In is only on the Axiom.

    I have both a 5 pin midi In/Out USB chord and a USB/USB chord, and was wondering if I could maybe plug in the wires 'IN' into the Axiom's 'IN' and the 'OUT' into the Yamaha 'OUT'.

    Any info is appreciated, as I have no clue what to do.

    Also, I have a smartphone and was wondering if I could plug the midi keyboard into that.

    Thanks!
     
    jhg, May 6, 2017
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  2. jhg

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    Yes, you can get a single MIDI cable, plug one end into the MIDI Out port of the Axiom, and plug the other end into the MIDI In port of the YPT-220. After that, the only challenging part should be programming the Axiom to send the correct Bank Select and Program Change messages for the voices you want to use.

    By the way, the YPT can respond to messages for Pitch Bend, Modulation, Attack, Release, Cutoff, and Resonance, even though it doesn't have any panel controls or functions for those things. So you should able to use the Axiom's controls for modifying the YPT's sounds in a manner similar to a synthesizer. :)

    NOTE: I was just rereading your post, and just to be sure there's no misunderstanding, you cannot use a MIDI-to-USB cable; you will need a standard MIDI cable. But since the communication will be strictly one way, from the Axiom to the YPT, you do not need two MIDI cables, just one.

    As for connecting the Axiom to a phone (or tablet, laptop, or computer), you'll need an appropriate cable, and possibly an adapter as well, to do that. For instance, I use an Apple Camera Connection Kit to connect a Yamaha keyboard to my iPad with a USB cable.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
    SeaGtGruff, May 6, 2017
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  3. jhg

    jhg

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    thank you so much!
     
    jhg, May 7, 2017
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  4. jhg

    jhg

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    If I plug in MIDI in out of each other, how it's supposed to be as in, will the speakers of the YTP be used?

    Thanks!
     
    jhg, May 8, 2017
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  5. jhg

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    If you run a MIDI cable from the MIDI Out of the Axiom to the MIDI In of the YPT-220, you'll be able to use the keyboard and controls on the Axiom to play the YPT-220, and the sounds will come from the speakers on the YPT-220 unless you've got headphones or external speakers connected to it.

    Remember, with a MIDI cable the Out port of one device must be connected to the In port of the other device, because you want the output coming from the first device to be used as the input for the second device. :)
     
    SeaGtGruff, May 8, 2017
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  6. jhg

    jhg

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    Can I split the Axiom to play 2 different voices at once or more?
    Also does the YPT still work as a keyboard? 2 keyboards?
    Also if they do work together, can I have 2 different voices for each?

    Thanks! Really appreciate the help!
     
    jhg, May 12, 2017
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  7. jhg

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    Yes, you should be able to set up multiple "zones," which can be layered together or split. The version I have (Axiom 61-II, or 2nd generation) can have four such zones.

    And yes, you can still play the YPT-220 as a keyboard at the same time that you're sending MIDI data to it-- that is, as long as the Local Control function is set to "On." The notes you send to it from the Axiom will play using whatever voice you've selected from the Axiom, and the notes you play on the YPT itself will play using whatever voice has been selected on the YPT.
     
    SeaGtGruff, May 13, 2017
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  8. jhg

    jhg

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    can I arppegiate anything?
    I am only asking this because I am fully aware that the only type of note-press-into-arpeggio is in the 'style' drum patterns where I press start/stop and the drum patterns go on, and then when you press maybe a chord or something at lower keys, the drum pattern suddenly plays something on that note.

    I just saw it, its called ACMP, and when I turn it on, the lower keys control the pitch of the drum pattern 'style'

    Thanks! Very broken question, but I don't know how to really ask it. :p
     
    jhg, May 13, 2017
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  9. jhg

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    You won't be able to control the Auto Accompaniment (or Style) from the other keyboard-- that's possible on PSR-S models, but not on PSR-E and YPT models. But if your keyboard controller or MIDI software has an arpeggiator function, you can use it to play arpeggios on your YPT-220. Is that what you wanted to know? :)
     
    SeaGtGruff, May 14, 2017
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  10. jhg

    jhg

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    can I change functions whilst on the axiom? I always maximise chorus or turn on sustain for voices, and the axiom has devoted transpose buttons already.

    Thanks!
     
    jhg, May 14, 2017
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  11. jhg

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    If you program some of the controls on the Axiom to send the right messages, I think you should be able to control the reverb and chorus levels, as well as turn the sustain on or off. Refer to the MIDI Implementation guide for a list of the MIDI messages that are recognized by the YPT-220 (contained in the Data List document).

    Note that changing the Reverb Type or Chorus Type requires sending a SysEx message, and I'm not sure if the Axiom can be programmed to send SysEx messages. And even if it can send SysEx messages, it might be a bit of trouble to set them up. So it would probably be best to select the desired Reverb Type and Chorus Type directly on the YPT-220, and then just send CC messages from the Axiom to control the Reverb Depth and Chorus Depth.

    CC #64 = Sustain (0 to 63 = off, 64 to 127 = on)
    CC #91 = Effect 1 Depth (Reverb; 0 = minimum/none, 127 = maximum)
    CC #93 = Effect 3 Depth (Chorus; 0 = minimum/none, 127 = maximum)
     
    SeaGtGruff, May 15, 2017
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  12. jhg

    jhg

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    Hello what order does the midi cable go into?
    Axiom {IN} - Midi Cable {OUT} ?
     
    jhg, May 16, 2017
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  13. jhg

    Fred Coulter Collector of ancient keyboards

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    I'm confused. Generally a MIDI Cable isn't labeled with an In or an Out. Either side works the same.

    Connect one end of the MIDI cable to the MIDI OUT of the Axiom, and connect the other end of the cable to the MIDI IN of the Yamaha. That's the way the control signal goes. You play the Axiom, and it creates a signal that say "hey, this note was pushed down at this velocity". That signal goes out of the Axiom. Then it goes into the Yamaha, which receives the signal and says "since that note was pressed down at that velocity, I've got to make this sound."

    Then you either listen to the sound through the internal speakers of the Yamaha, or you connect the Yamaha to an external audio amplifier using the audio outs on the Yamaha.
     
    Fred Coulter, May 16, 2017
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  14. jhg

    jhg

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    How do I create zones with unique voices for each zone?
     
    jhg, May 18, 2017
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  15. jhg

    Fred Coulter Collector of ancient keyboards

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    Program the Axiom so that each zone sends on a different channel. (MIDI allows for 16 channels on a single cable.) Program the YPT so that each channel plays a different sound.

    The more impressive version would be to program the Axiom so that each zone sends on a different channel AND selects the sound you want on that channel. But that requires specific knowledge of both the Axiom and the YPT.
     
    Fred Coulter, May 18, 2017
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  16. jhg

    jhg

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    HOW do I program?
     
    jhg, May 18, 2017
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  17. jhg

    Fred Coulter Collector of ancient keyboards

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    Do you have the manuals? Yamaha usually has them online. I don't know about the Axiom.
     
    Fred Coulter, May 18, 2017
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  18. jhg

    jhg

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    Thanks, will look at the manual.
     
    jhg, May 18, 2017
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  19. jhg

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    I think it might be easier to program the Axiom. I have an Axiom 61-II myself, so I'll try this later tonight. It should be covered in your Axiom's User Guide, which you can download from M-Audio's web site. In the version I have, it's mentioned in "Chapter 4: Advanced Keyboard Functions"-- although the actual information is rather sparse. :(

    Programming the YPT itself isn't really an option, which is not to say that you can't select the voices from the YPT. But I believe you'd need to create MIDI "song" files on your computer-- although they wouldn't contain any Note events, just the MIDI messages needed for selecting and setting up the desired voices. Then you'd need to transfer these "song" files to your YPT's internal memory so you can select them when you want to change voices.
     
    SeaGtGruff, May 19, 2017
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  20. jhg

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    I'm embarrassed to say that I bought my Axiom 61-II in 2012 and never tried to learn how to program it; I just used it with its default settings for a while, then more or less stowed it away after I bought my PSR-E433! However, I've just read through its User Guide cover-to-cover, and now I'm looking forward to programming it to use with my PSR-E443. I won't be able to do that until later tonight, then I'll see about typing up some guidelines for you.

    Which Axiom 61 version do you have-- first generation, second generation, AIR, Pro, etc.? I've got the PDF documents for all or most of them, so if I know which one you've got I'll be sure to check its User Guide for any differences between it and my second generation model.
     
    SeaGtGruff, May 19, 2017
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