Casio CT-X5000 general tone compared to PSR-E463 (EQ'ing)

[yul]

Hello! First post here

I have typically been making electronic/ambient style music via software for ages but recently got back to arrangers (just for fun and scratchpad).

I previously owned a PSR-E453 but let it go due to missing features. I then got tempted but the CT-X5000 and it is very nice (sometimes a bit complex but it delivers).

The only issue I am finding is that my previous 453 recordings were so much more beefier than the CTX. I tried replicating a simple previous recording from the 453 onto my Casio with similar tones and jacked up the EQ's but for some reaons the 453 has so much bass and beef.

I still haven't "analysed" on my computer to see if either the Yamaha has too much bass or of the Casio is a bit on the thin side.

If anyone has some impression or experience here it would be really appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

 

[happyrat1]

What sort of speakers or headphones are you using to make the comparison?

EQ and FX are very subjective things and if you are using the built in speakers then your tests are meaningless.

In consumer grade keyboards compromises are always made to hit the sweet spots on the consumer pricing scale.

It's pretty much common knowledge that among these brands Casio offers more voices and features per dollar while the Yamahas have a slight edge when it comes to natural instrument voicing.

However, people often overlook the competitively priced arrangers from Korg and Roland which sound light years better than the other two.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 on the subject.

Gary

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I have no experience with the CT-X models, but I used to own a very basic CTK model, and I did some comparisons between my old CTK keyboard and my very first PSR-E keyboard to see how similar or different they sounded as far as equivalent tones. It was definitely not an in-depth technical analysis.

What I noticed is that Yamaha likes "wet" sounds, meaning the preset voices usually had a good bit of reverb and chorus applied to them. In contrast, Casio's sounds were "drier." I actually thought this made some of Casio's voices sound "cleaner" or "crisper" than the equivalent Yamaha voices. And my old Casio was so basic that it didn't even have any reverb or chorus effects.

Anyway, you might want to focus more on adding reverb and chorus rather than just fiddling with the EQ settings.

 

[yul]

Hello thanks for your responses.

The comparison was made using headphones and external speakers ( not built in). I am not talking about the quality of instruments (both are awesome) but rather the overall tone. For some reason I can't get the CTX to sound as full even with EQ.

To your point I believe the reverb may actually play a role. CTX does have plenty but I will try an external reverb to see if that helps as the onboard seems to be rejecting some frequencies (i.e bass)

More to come. Thanks

 

[Biggles]

The E464 and X5000 are pretty much the same, so I am a bit surprised that you crecording hanged simply to use features on the Casio.

I would have thought that a change to an S670 or even a SX700 would have provided the leap in quality that you seem to be seeking.

Have you tried exporting your recording into a Computer and processing the audio using Audacity, Ableto or Logic Pro etc?

 

[yul]

Hello! Yes everything is done with Audacity. I am also triple checking with the same setup using a DAW and stock instruments as well as with an external reverb.

I have finally tested all possibilities. There is something about the overall tone I think it's to ensure the sound can be transposed in any circumstance (it will always sound OK).

My conclusion is that the Casio instruments are well detailed yet the Yamaha just has more bass at the final recording.

 

[yul]

Would also like to add that the type of patches used have big impact. I need to get to know more about them since there are just so many variations. Some have more bass and other much less. I think the whole sound palette from Casio is made to sound good under any circumstance and take less risk. Maybe I am too biased towards beefy sounds. Casio sure sounds quite detailed and good.

 

[yul]

Another update guys. I fully tested with the help of a sound guy friend. The CTX tones are really good but the (electronic) basses just need some internal DSP to stand out. Without it you can't get to the deep modern electronic sound even with aggressive master eq.

To the previous point, the internal reverb is good but a bit bright. I tried with external and the difference can be big in some cases.

Is this also the case with other arranger I wonder?

Cheers

 

[Biggles]

Is this also the case with other arranger I wonder?

Yes and No, it is all dependent upon the cost of the Arranger.

Easier if I explain from my own Arranger ownership which was a Korg Pa700

The Yamaha equivalent would be a PSR SX700, also Casio do not have anything in the market at this level except for the S3000 whichis a digital piano with some Arranger functionality, Roland does not produce any Arranger of note. Kursweil also produce an Arranger but I have zero experience or knowledge of their products since they are not very popular here in the UK.

With the Pa700 (and models above) there are a number of Eq presets available, each of which is user customisable to suit. The Eq is in fact parametric and so a tone curve to a desired profile is very easy to configure and to save for future use. There is also a customisable Limiter function to further enhance the tone profile.

If you were to test play any Korg Arranger it would sound good right out of the box, but rather flat in its tonal curve, this is typical Korg but once the Eq is turned on the Arranger comes alive. Correspondingly a Yamaha will have the bass shifted and treble shifted tonal curve with more emphasis on the treble making it a tad bright. That said I am unsure of the adjustments available within higher end Yamaha Arrangers.

We are taking Arrangers by Korg and Yamaha retailing in the region of $1500 so you would expect quite a considerable leap in onboard features compared to a $500 Casio or E series Yamaha.

Hope this helps

 

[SeaGtGruff]

The Casio MZ-X500 is at the low end of the price range you're talking about. I'm not familiar with its sound quality as compared to other models and brands, but I believe it's a popular model among Casio users.

 

[yul]

Hey guys good info!

So my CT-X5000 allegedly has a newer and slightly improved sound set than the MZ-X5000 but the MZ has more tweakability.
After further testing (including an external reverb) and A/B ing with my computer here is my conclusion:

The sounds are all quite very good but seems to have a tonal curve around the mid to bright by default.
I have tried to bring up the bass with the user EQ but it didn't sound right and overloaded the output.

What I did was to do substractive EQ'ing which gave me much better results in getting close to production quality sound.
From some other Casio user (him was a XW-P1), he had suggested to simply bring down the mids which I tried.

I then slightly increased the lows and highs as well as well as the volume of the bass and kick drum section.
This made a much better difference overall.

The sparing use of external reverb also brings an improvement as the Casio one is more conservative.

The synth is still meant to be very crisp and clear I believe to be ensure it sounds good under most situations for amateurs yet some tweaking is possible to bring it closer to production quality.

I still can't get it to sound exactly as my previous Yamaha but considering all the other thigs it does I will stick with it for now

 

[Biggles]

Thanks for the feedback