Condenser mic for 7500?
- Thread starter Mozartian
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happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
I don't really see how you can use a condenser mic with a Casio since there's no way it can supply phantom power to the mic.
One possible solution is to devote a cheap; $45 Behringer 502 5 channel Mixer with an XLR input and phantom power and route the output to the Casio's line level input if it has one.
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-502-XENYX502-5-Channel-Mixer/dp/B000J5UEGQ
One possible solution is to devote a cheap; $45 Behringer 502 5 channel Mixer with an XLR input and phantom power and route the output to the Casio's line level input if it has one.
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-502-XENYX502-5-Channel-Mixer/dp/B000J5UEGQ
Would something like this work on the 7500's line level input---> http://www.amazon.com/ART-Tube-Stud...TF8&colid=3B04RKX85L5W0&coliid=I3EWMOSPO0F9MY
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
Either one would probably work just as well. Read Page E12 of the manual on how to hook it up to the RECORD/Inst IN Jack.
Only problem I have with the preamp you listed is that it's a tube amp. Personally I hate tubes. They're a pain in the ass and they are constantly burning out. Why on earth would anyone want to hook up 1950's technology to a modern instrument is beyond me.
All that a tube adds to an audio circuit is about 2% THD.
Only problem I have with the preamp you listed is that it's a tube amp. Personally I hate tubes. They're a pain in the ass and they are constantly burning out. Why on earth would anyone want to hook up 1950's technology to a modern instrument is beyond me.
All that a tube adds to an audio circuit is about 2% THD.
So do you think I'd be better off keeping my Sure SM57 for recording acoustic instruments from several feet away or do I need to live with close miking with it to get the most out of it compared to trying to rig a condenser mike?
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
I don't have a lot of experience with micing a venue and from what I've read about the SM57 on Shure's spec page, that seems to be exactly what it is designed for.
Then again I'm a bit foggy on what exactly your intentions are? Do you plan to use it to record your clarinet into the 7500 or to record an entire band/combo?
Are you going to record live sessions with an entire group or use it to lay down a track at a time in multitrack format?
Are you planning to add effects and processing from the keyboard to the final mix and then mixdown to your computer for the final recording?
There's a lot of wildcards here. What sort of instruments? How many instruments? Acoustic or amplified? Adding a vocal track? Recording for an album or just recording your practice sessions to audition your own performances?
What are the acoustics of your studio? Are you literally forming a garage band in the garage whose pic you posted the other day?
What style of music?
All of these and a hundred other factors are involved in setting up for a proper recording session and I'm no audio engineer, but that's the skillset you are invoking here. My suggestion is to try with what you have and see if it works or not. Good old trial and error tends to work out the bugs a lot more easily and quickly than hundred hours of slogging thru theory.
If you already have the Shure mic then by all means try it out and see if it works for you or not. Only after you've exhausted the most economical possibilities should you begin to throw more money at it.
Gary
Then again I'm a bit foggy on what exactly your intentions are? Do you plan to use it to record your clarinet into the 7500 or to record an entire band/combo?
Are you going to record live sessions with an entire group or use it to lay down a track at a time in multitrack format?
Are you planning to add effects and processing from the keyboard to the final mix and then mixdown to your computer for the final recording?
There's a lot of wildcards here. What sort of instruments? How many instruments? Acoustic or amplified? Adding a vocal track? Recording for an album or just recording your practice sessions to audition your own performances?
What are the acoustics of your studio? Are you literally forming a garage band in the garage whose pic you posted the other day?
What style of music?
All of these and a hundred other factors are involved in setting up for a proper recording session and I'm no audio engineer, but that's the skillset you are invoking here. My suggestion is to try with what you have and see if it works or not. Good old trial and error tends to work out the bugs a lot more easily and quickly than hundred hours of slogging thru theory.
If you already have the Shure mic then by all means try it out and see if it works for you or not. Only after you've exhausted the most economical possibilities should you begin to throw more money at it.
Gary
Gary: The instruments to be recorded are from one to four clarinets - classical to swing. The location is in my garage. I would be mic-ing directly into the keyboard - no separate tracks.
I understand a condenser mic tends to provide a more balanced pickup from several feet away which a small ensemble would have to be. I understand that a dynamic mic begins to sound a bit thin the further away the source of the sound. I was wondering how much difference those who have experience with condenser vs dynamic mics might have noticed with these conditions recording any acoustical instrument. Ideally if an SM57-type mic is used with more than one instrument, each would be separately mic-ed - which I cannot afford.
I didn't want to unpackage the SM57 and its transformer until I received a bit more feedback from those who know better than I. The ***ideal*** for my use would have been a condenser mic. But the unknown result from an unorthodox setup with this keyboard is not something I want to mess with if the Shure 57 will provide decent results.
It appears from the posts so far that my best bet is to keep and try out the SM57. With a small ensemble in a circle (not performing to an audience) the boom for the mic could place the mic right down in the middle of the group without any instrument being more than 2 or 3 feet away from it.
Thanks for helping me think this through.
Jerry
I understand a condenser mic tends to provide a more balanced pickup from several feet away which a small ensemble would have to be. I understand that a dynamic mic begins to sound a bit thin the further away the source of the sound. I was wondering how much difference those who have experience with condenser vs dynamic mics might have noticed with these conditions recording any acoustical instrument. Ideally if an SM57-type mic is used with more than one instrument, each would be separately mic-ed - which I cannot afford.
I didn't want to unpackage the SM57 and its transformer until I received a bit more feedback from those who know better than I. The ***ideal*** for my use would have been a condenser mic. But the unknown result from an unorthodox setup with this keyboard is not something I want to mess with if the Shure 57 will provide decent results.
It appears from the posts so far that my best bet is to keep and try out the SM57. With a small ensemble in a circle (not performing to an audience) the boom for the mic could place the mic right down in the middle of the group without any instrument being more than 2 or 3 feet away from it.
Thanks for helping me think this through.
Jerry
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
You're welcome.
However, I will mention one small detail.
A circular arrangement won't work that well with a cardioid pattern mic. It's a directional heart shaped pattern of sensitivity that won't pick up properly in a 360 degree pattern. You'll have to arrange your players in more of a semi circle about 170 degrees apart from end to end. Even then that may not be optimal. Here's a diagram of the SM57's cardioid pattern. It seems to be pretty even coverage from end to end about 180 degrees.
What I was going to suggest, until you mentioned that money was tight, was that you invest in an electric pickup for each clarinet.
http://www.pasoana.com/
Otherwise I'd suggest getting a second SM57 and feeding both mics thru a mixer and then doing your final recording and effects on the computer instead of thru the keyboard.
However, I will mention one small detail.
A circular arrangement won't work that well with a cardioid pattern mic. It's a directional heart shaped pattern of sensitivity that won't pick up properly in a 360 degree pattern. You'll have to arrange your players in more of a semi circle about 170 degrees apart from end to end. Even then that may not be optimal. Here's a diagram of the SM57's cardioid pattern. It seems to be pretty even coverage from end to end about 180 degrees.
What I was going to suggest, until you mentioned that money was tight, was that you invest in an electric pickup for each clarinet.
http://www.pasoana.com/
Otherwise I'd suggest getting a second SM57 and feeding both mics thru a mixer and then doing your final recording and effects on the computer instead of thru the keyboard.
As I understand the diagram above, the mike is vertical facing south. I was picturing the mike on the boom in the middle of the group pointing straight DOWN. If it is pointed straight down, the horns would be picked up uniformly plus get the reflection (reinforcement) off the concrete floor.You're welcome.
However, I will mention one small detail.
A circular arrangement won't work that well with a cardioid pattern mic. It's a directional heart shaped pattern of sensitivity that won't pick up properly in a 360 degree pattern. You'll have to arrange your players in more of a semi circle about 170 degrees apart from end to end. Even then that may not be optimal. Here's a diagram of the SM57's cardioid pattern. It seems to be pretty even coverage from end to end about 180 degrees.
What I was going to suggest, until you mentioned that money was tight, was that you invest in an electric pickup for each clarinet.
http://www.pasoana.com/
Otherwise I'd suggest getting a second SM57 and feeding both mics thru a mixer and then doing your final recording and effects on the computer instead of thru the keyboard.
Obviously experimentation is in order. That will be my project when I get my boom in the next day or so. I'll report back on the results.
Electric pickups for clarinet. YIKES! 335 EURs!
Rumberger K1x, Pickup Clarinet Rumberger K1x Clarinet Pickup - very good sound, no feedback, 50Hz-20kHz linear response, easy to remove, suitable for wireless systems (cable optional Art. 227149), includes case, cable with phantom adapter and accessories.Yes, for $450, I'd sound good, too.
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
I think your best and most economical option would be to have two SM57s each facing forward with two clarinets playing into each one from about a foot away.
I think hanging it down into the middle of a circle of four is going to be a very odd way to play and might produce some weird acoustic artifacts.
Anyway, I had no idea that clarinet pickups were so god awful expensive. Flute pickups can be had for well under $200.
I think hanging it down into the middle of a circle of four is going to be a very odd way to play and might produce some weird acoustic artifacts.
Anyway, I had no idea that clarinet pickups were so god awful expensive. Flute pickups can be had for well under $200.
I might have randomly picked a pricey one. They all can't be that much.
$450 = very good sound
$300 = good sound
$200 = mediocre sound
$100 = really crappy sound
I think that's the way it works.
This Behringer looks like the cheapest one with a 3-pin mike input: http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-502-XENYX502-5-Channel-Mixer/dp/B000J5UEGQ/ref=pd_cp_MI_0 Plus I would get the benefit of some equalization.
So you believe the output of this mixer will work with the instrument IN on the 7500? If that is the case, there are some decent condenser mikes for less than $100 that would provide better results than the dynamic mike for my purposes.
So you believe the output of this mixer will work with the instrument IN on the 7500? If that is the case, there are some decent condenser mikes for less than $100 that would provide better results than the dynamic mike for my purposes.
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
Yeah the 502 definitely outputs line level signals on the line outs and the studio monitor jacks and it provides 48V phantom power for XLR condenser mics. Definitely compatible with the Record/Inst IN jack on the 7500.
Refer to page E12 of the manual for proper cabling and hookup info.
Refer to page E12 of the manual for proper cabling and hookup info.
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
BTW, be VERY careful with your levels when you set this up in your garage studio. It seems to me that a rig like you are designing will be very prone to feedback.
Either keep your keyboard volume levels very low or else use headphones when you are setting up and playing.
Either keep your keyboard volume levels very low or else use headphones when you are setting up and playing.
I'm about to hit the "buy" button on a starter condenser mic that fits my needs and wallet. Most who record woodwind instruments suggest a medium to large diaphragm condenser mic and several indicate they get excellent results using a stereo mic setup to get the best presence from that instrument. So I am looking at a single mic that has two diaphragms in it in an X/Y configuration, the MXL 990 Stereo, along with the Alto ZMX862 mixer/equalizer/phantom power supply board. As I understand things, the out of this board will go to the instrument "in" of the keyboard for recording through the keyboards mixer/sequencer onto the SD card in the keyboard. The Mic Volume on the keyboard won't affect anything if nothing is plugged into the "mic in" jack. Please let me know if I have this right, or if there are alternate approaches. As I gain understanding of the keyboard's recording work flow as well as recording software on my computer, I expect to graduate to other means of recording - integrating the clarinet with the keyboard.
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
Sounds like a good solution to me. You can control the mic volumes from the mixer board itself so you should be good to go.
Gary
Gary
Speaking of "if its not fun its not music" I have had such an obsessive blast the last 4 days researching mics - up till 3 in the morning doing this. So many variables, so little time. I think my mic solution is to order my 3 or 4 favorites, try each out, and return the couple that don't fit my needs. I did that when I bought my present clarinet and it worked out fine, except with clarinets you have $$$$$ on your card instead of just $$$ with mics.