Crumar and PA5X together?

[PJT610]

Hi,

I have a PA5X along with the PAAS speaker in a home setup. While I'm very happy with both, whenever I watch/listen to a Crumar video, my ears perk up as its drawbars simply sound better to me. While the suggestion has been made on Keyboard World to pair the Crumar (either the suitcase or 61?) with the Ketron EVM module, I prefer not to do down this route which would require a learning curve of the Ketron, and basically resulting in a separate setup. Is it possible or practical to simply add the Crumar 61 to the PA5X where the Crumar plays the melody while the PA5X would play the chords? Any advice as to this idea or any other practical alternatives would be welcomed...

 

[Biggles]

It is simply a matter of connecting the output of a Crumar to the Line input of a 5X.

At the rear of your 5X, left to right there are inputs:- Mike, Guitar, Line and Aux Stereo.

Have you tried adjusting the Maxx audio settings, if you do these may change your listening experience.

Or

What I am going to suggest is a bit different, I am not a fan of the PAAS system so did not buy one for my 5X. I bought a pair of powered monitors and this is what I suggest you try.

Buy a pair and try them with your 5X you may find the 5X sounds even more awesome.

If you go this route buy from a source that offers free returns so you can effective try them knowing you will get the cash back if you return them.

 

[PJT610]

It is simply a matter of connecting the output of a Crumar to the Line input of a 5X.

At the rear of your 5X, left to right there are inputs:- Mike, Guitar, Line and Aux Stereo.

Have you tried adjusting the Maxx audio settings, if you do these may change your listening experience.

Or

What I am going to suggest is a bit different, I am not a fan of the PAAS system so did not buy one for my 5X. I bought a pair of powered monitors and this is what I suggest you try.

Buy a pair and try them with your 5X you may find the 5X sounds even more awesome.

If you go this route buy from a source that offers free returns so you can effective try them knowing you will get the cash back if you return them.

Thank you for your response. Appreciate the powered monitor suggestion, but I've already invest in PAAS and space is an issue. Since the connection of the 5X and Crumar is possible, my question would now be to ask whether there is an appreciable difference between the 5X drawbars on those on the Crumar? The YouTube videos for the Crumar are played by those with talents well above mine, so whatever I hear is certainly better than what I produce on the 5X, but I'm not sure how much (if any) is attributable to the hardware.

 

[amwilburn]

Biggles: I absolutely hated the PAAS for PA3x, PA4x, but apparently the PAA2mk2 (on PA5x, since the KB still provides the amplifier it doesn't add anything to PA4x) is just *killer*. I've been trying to get one into the store for me to demo. But you're right, if space isn't an issue, you powered monitors are great, too (although for something with as much bass punch as a P5x, I'd actually suggest a 2.1 system, if not the PAASmk2)

Mark

 

[Biggles]

I have not played a Crumar so cannot really comment on sound quality differences.

I’ll ask the question again…have you tried adjusting the Maxx Audio settings?

All Pa series are rather flat and slightly dull straight our of the box, that is the Korg way, they need their Eq system tweaking to suit the playing environment.

So do try tweaking the audio setting before shelling out £1100-£1600 on a Crumar.

If you have an iPad or iPhone you can install a Drawbar Organ App and see it that improves the sound you hear.

Galileo II is very good. I have it, it was better than the Drawbars on the Pa700 that I had.

KingB gets great comments

If these improve the sound quality for you and you want the best then there is a Hammond B3 App that gets rave reviews, but it costs £129.

 

[PJT610]

Thank you for the app suggestions. This would be opening up a new area for sound enhancements which I have yet to explore. The Hammond app is appealing (despite the price) as it apparently was developed with the company.

 

[sjmarano]

I can attest to both of the suggestions that Biggles has made here - both in adjusting the PA5X's Maxx Audio settings and in connecting the PA5X to a computer to take advantage of the extraordinarily wide variety of VSTs on offer. I too was quite disappointed in the out-of-the-box PA5X sounds but they really opened up with some adjustments. And I have found the PA5X user interface to be quite friendly in that regard, certainly easier to work with than the Yamaha Motif and Montage, at least in my experience. As for VSTs, that REALLY opens up a new world. And again, I have found the PA5X's user interface for managing MIDI connectivity (in both directions) with external devices to be quite good. And this is coming from someone who has at best an 'advanced beginner' level of experience with sound design and MIDI.

 

[Fitzrovia]

Hi all,

just to add my bit. I have a KORG PA5X with the PAAS MK2. Quite rightly the standard preset of the speaker does need adjusting to your taste and there are many other presets to suit. Also you can create your own eq setting.

I also have the Crumar and EVM, which I have connected together. Using the EVM for the styles accompany the Crumar organ voices. Also to mix between Crumar and EVM voices. I don’t read music, play entirely by ear. I find the Crumar organ sounds amazing especially with the vintage Hammond sound and the double waterfall keys make playing so easy.

Back to speakers. I also have a Genos 2 and currently use Genelec Speakers and sub woofer (sounds amazing - far better than the Yamaha Satellite speakers.) I’m waiting on a mixer so that I can link all keyboards and EVM. I‘ll be interested to hear the difference between the Genelec Speakers and my Korg PAAS MK2, which was expensive but if the sound is far better on the Genelec’s then I will consider selling the PAAS MK2.

The Crumar organ voices far outweigh the onboard KORG organ voices, although there are some really good organ voices on there and third party organ voices.

Happy New Year to all.
James.

 

[PJT610]

With regard to the original recommendation regarding speakers, I do have the PAAS MK2 and had previously made adjustments to match my room, so I’m quite pleased with the overall sound. As far as the drawbars, I was happy to read that James is of the opinion that the Crummar sounds outweigh those on the Korg. As far as the VST’s, I’ve watched a number of YouTube videos for the Hammond B3 app since recommended yesterday, and it seems too good to be true - although the various reviewers are quite convincing. Perhaps the VST route is the safer step at this point. I admit to being a bit lazy not taking more time to further explore and experiment with the drawbars on the PA5X, but some of the presets that I heard on the Hammond B3 app were closer to the sound that I’m seeking. I thank everyone for their input and recommendations.

 

[Gourockian]

All Pa series are rather flat and slightly dull straight our of the box, that is the Korg way, they need their Eq system tweaking to suit the playing environment.

Yes, I have to agree there, although some are pretty good as they are.

I was hoping to find a reference to Maxx audio in the Pa1000 manual but it comes up blank when doing a search. There were plenty of hits for Audio and a few for Max but no Maxx. It looks like it's only available to Pa5x and possibly Pa4X owners. Bummer!

 

[amwilburn]

James, while waiting for that mixer, you could just run a pair of 1/4" to 1/4" (ts) cables to either run the pa5x into the G2 or vice versa (personally, in your case, both your speaker setups are great, so it doesn't matter which way around). At our store, I'd setup the PA5x into the G1 into the G2 (because I only have the GNSMS01 2.1 speaker on display; hence why I'd been trying to get a PAAS2mk2 in) and they all sound great, even through the tiny 2.1 system.

And since you can run both (but be careful running the G2 into the Pa5x, if I recall (on the PA4x at least), the default was mic gain, you had to manually set line level). My branch is currently under renovation so I can't even go back to check the inputs on the PA5x right now :1 But yes, just in case, make sure the Pa5x main 1/4" inputs don't default to mic level gain.

Mark

 

[Biggles]

Yes, I have to agree there, although some are pretty good as they are.

I was hoping to find a reference to Maxx audio in the Pa1000 manual but it comes up blank when doing a search. There were plenty of hits for Audio and a few for Max but no Maxx. It looks like it's only available to Pa5x and possibly Pa4X owners. Bummer!

In the Pa 1000 and 700 there is an EQ feature.

It is set to Off by Default, there are 6 Presets available with each having its own configuration.

Each of these presets is a starter for ten and each can be tweaked to suit your requirements.

It should be in the Sound section and on its own Tab.

At least that is how I remember it, but it is 7 years since I sold the 700 that I had.

 

[Gourockian]

In the Pa 1000 and 700 there is an EQ feature.

It is set to Off by Default, there are 6 Presets available with each having its own configuration.

Each of these presets is a starter for ten and each can be tweaked to suit your requirements.

It should be in the Sound section and on its own Tab.

At least that is how I remember it, but it is 7 years since I sold the 700 that I had.

Thanks. I've not been playing the Pa1000 for a few months, due to house renovations and stuff presently blocking access to it, so I'm a bit more rusty than normal. When I've finally got things back in place, I'll do some experimenting with the EQ.

 

[orangeman]

PJT610, the software of the Crumar is available as an app VB3-II and is excellent. I actually prefer it to the B-3X app, but both are excellent. I assure you that it’s not too good to be true. The modern organs have software engines and this is the software.

I think we have lost our perspective in terms of apps and value. The cost to purchase both VB3-II AND B-3X, is a tiny fraction of the cost of a Crumar Mojo or any other modern organ. I think of these apps as a bargain.

 

[sjmarano]

Yes, I have to agree there, although some are pretty good as they are.

I was hoping to find a reference to Maxx audio in the Pa1000 manual but it comes up blank when doing a search. There were plenty of hits for Audio and a few for Max but no Maxx. It looks like it's only available to Pa5x and possibly Pa4X owners. Bummer!

Let me suggest an extremely effective, quick and easy way to accomplish this: use any of the available free AI inquiry tools, starting with the relatively new "AI Mode" search option that's now built into Google. You could literally start by entering this string verbatim: "Provide a quick tutorial on using the Waves Maxx Audio feature built into the Korg PA5X to improve sound quality." It will almost instantaneously return a set of well organized steps to access the function. And if you click on the "Dive deeper in AI mode" at the bottom of its initial suggestions, you'll get a lot more information along with a set of suggested - and very relevant - followup inquiries that you can make simply by clicking on any of them.

For the record, Google's AI Mode gets its information by searching through the very same Korg reference manuals that you probably are looking at, along with any relevant Youtube tutorials and user community forums it might find. It basically does all the dirty work for you, and frankly far more comprehensively and quickly than conducting the search yourself.

And believe it or not, Google's AI Mode is actually my third choice among free AI search tools, the others being ChatGPT and Perplexity.AI. In my experience, the latter two usually return even more in-depth information. One small caveat with all of these: I have found that occasionally any of these AI search tools might return slightly inaccurate information. But that is pretty uncommon, and it's dwarfed by the truly useful and accurate information provided. Frankly, I have stopped perusing the Korg manuals, or almost any manual on music software or hardware products for that matter. And you don't have to stop with using these tools simply to sift through instructional material. You could actually ask for its help on product recommendations of virtually any kind. For example, I now frequently ask one or more of the tools to search the web for consensus views on a product category I might be interested in, asking it to find candidates and even asking it to summarize the pros and cons of each it might find. While I wouldn't take these responses as definitive gospel, I have been amazed at how useful an AI's suggestions can be.

 

[Gourockian]

Thanks for the very detailed information - was some of that AI generated by any chance?

I tried your suggestion for the Pa1000, using Google Gemini (I think that's the only AI tool I have ready access to without setting up an account) and it gave fairly basic details about tweaking the EQ settings.

After I get the house back to normal, I'll perhaps delve deeper into trying to customise some of the keyboard's sounds. I appreciate your suggestions.

 

[PJT610]

Let me suggest an extremely effective, quick and easy way to accomplish this: use any of the available free AI inquiry tools, starting with the relatively new "AI Mode" search option that's now built into Google. You could literally start by entering this string verbatim: "Provide a quick tutorial on using the Waves Maxx Audio feature built into the Korg PA5X to improve sound quality." It will almost instantaneously return a set of well organized steps to access the function. And if you click on the "Dive deeper in AI mode" at the bottom of its initial suggestions, you'll get a lot more information along with a set of suggested - and very relevant - followup inquiries that you can make simply by clicking on any of them.

For the record, Google's AI Mode gets its information by searching through the very same Korg reference manuals that you probably are looking at, along with any relevant Youtube tutorials and user community forums it might find. It basically does all the dirty work for you, and frankly far more comprehensively and quickly than conducting the search yourself.

And believe it or not, Google's AI Mode is actually my third choice among free AI search tools, the others being ChatGPT and Perplexity.AI. In my experience, the latter two usually return even more in-depth information. One small caveat with all of these: I have found that occasionally any of these AI search tools might return slightly inaccurate information. But that is pretty uncommon, and it's dwarfed by the truly useful and accurate information provided. Frankly, I have stopped perusing the Korg manuals, or almost any manual on music software or hardware products for that matter. And you don't have to stop with using these tools simply to sift through instructional material. You could actually ask for its help on product recommendations of virtually any kind. For example, I now frequently ask one or more of the tools to search the web for consensus views on a product category I might be interested in, asking it to find candidates and even asking it to summarize the pros and cons of each it might find. While I wouldn't take these responses as definitive gospel, I have been amazed at how useful an AI's suggestions can be.

Good advice regarding AI and its ability to seek solutions. After prompting from my son to use ChatGPT (or other AI software) so I don't fall behind, I just started using it for something as simple as recommending songs to play with the various Korg styles. There are so many terrific styles but I often have a hard time finding a song that fits - particularly those from the last few decades as my musical tastes have declined considerably as I've gotten older. What I like about ChatGPT is that it asks you questions in an effort to probe further into your inquiry and come up with helpful solutions.

 

[sjmarano]

Good advice regarding AI and its ability to seek solutions. After prompting from my son to use ChatGPT (or other AI software) so I don't fall behind, I just started using it for something as simple as recommending songs to play with the various Korg styles. There are so many terrific styles but I often have a hard time finding a song that fits - particularly those from the last few decades as my musical tastes have declined considerably as I've gotten older. What I like about ChatGPT is that it asks you questions in an effort to probe further into your inquiry and come up with helpful solutions.

I actually use Perplexity.AI most of all, which uses its own AI engine/s and is optimized for providing direct, source-cited answers by performing real-time web searches, making it excellent for research and fact-checking. It's like having a pure Web-based version of Google's NotebookLM (another extremely useful option). Perplexity is incredibly adept at sifting through multiple information sources and presenting the information in an extremely cogent manner, even building tables where appropriate to weigh the pro's/con's of whatever alternatives you might be considering. ChatGPT, while very good, is more optimized for conversational generation. The caveats for Perplexity: first, I accidentally lucked out in somehow receiving a complementary account whereas I believe it's now a paid service. Second, it actually remembers your past interactions with it, and tailors its responses to current questions with knowledge of that context. Example: when I asked it recently to provide a tutorial on using Logic Pro to accommplish a given task, it actually recalled from past inquiries that I owned a Korg PA5X and incorporated that in its tutorial, even though I never mentioned that in my new inquiry. Incredibly helpful, yet sobering from a privacy standpoint. I keep that in mind whenever I use it.