Default keyboard Arpeggios are they of any use?


Joined
May 7, 2019
Messages
89
Reaction score
16
I have a PSR E363 keyboard,there are lot of arpeggios. I wanted to do guiter like struming on piano. As I am not good with hand making arpeggio therefore I rely on keyboard offered arpeggio. I even have find strumming arpeggio but none of them give a pleasing effect, I mean when I shift a chord,even though of sustain pedal ON, the sound stops as soon as I jump from one chord to another n all rhythm breaks.

In nutshell I am just curious to know how to use default Yamaha offered arpeggios to make my sound more lively. I have seen lot of tutorials no one is using default keyboard arpeggios, are they of no any use?

IMG_20200504_104444.jpg


see there is button for arpeggio
IMG_20200504_104504.jpg
 
Ad

Advertisements

SeaGtGruff

I meant to play that note!
Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
3,727
Reaction score
1,579
Getting a really good acoustic guitar sound out of a keyboard can be a real challenge. Generally speaking, if I'm playing a chord using an acoustic guitar voice and I want it to sound like a guitar, I try to play the chord with a rolling motion of my hand-- that is, play the leftmost note of the chord first, followed quickly by the next note of the chord, then the next, then the next, until you're holding down all notes of the chords, so it sounds more like the way it would if a guitarist were quickly running the guitar pic across the strings to play the chord. It might take a little time to get used to playing chords this way, but it's not too difficult. I think there are YouTube videos of people showing how to use this method to get a more convincing acoustic guitar sound on a keyboard. Otherwise, if you play the chords the way you would normally play them on a keyboard-- trying to strike all keys of the chord as close to simultaneously as possible-- the acoustic guitar voices will tend to sound sort of like a piano voice.

As far as arpeggios, I'd like to make two comments.

First, the arpeggios which are programmed into a keyboard will be very precisely timed, which can make them sound "robotic" or as if a robot were playing them. For some types of music, such as electronic music, that might be exactly what you're trying to achieve. But for other types of music, it usually sounds more convincing if you can play the arpeggiated chords and arpeggiated phrases manually, because then there will be all sorts of little "timing variations"-- I hesitate to call them "timing errors"-- where the notes being played don't always occur infallibly on the precise down beats, up beats, quarter beats, or other fractions of a beat. These little imperfections or variations in the timing will make it sound like a human being is playing the music, rather than a robot or computer.

And second, I think the answer to your specific problem can be found in the Function menu. If you look on page 46 in the Owner's Manual, at the very bottom it lists the "Pedal Function" setting, which controls whether the foot pedal will sustain the notes you've pressed when you lift your hand, or will hold the arpeggio you're playing when you lift your hand, or do both at the same time. See page 20 for a slightly more detailed explanation of the "Arp Hold" setting. Note that you'll need to have a foot pedal or foot switch to make use of this feature. If you have the Survival Kit which is designed for the PSR-E363 (which I think would be the SK B2 version of the Survival Kit), it includes a foot switch that you can use as a sustain pedal. However, the FC5 foot switch or FC4A foot pedal should be more sturdily built and durable than the foot switch that comes in the Survival Kit.

Now, as far as your question about how useful the preset arpeggios really are, this can depend on how you're trying to use them. As I said, they do tend to sound a bit "robotic," so they can be best suited for various types of electronic music. However, the Arpeggio and Harmony features can be very useful for playing certain types of voices, such as Steel Drums or Timpani, or Acoustic Guitar, or Harp-- any type of instrument where a sound is rapidly repeated (such as Steel Drums or Timpani), or where a series of notes are played in repetitive sequence (such as Acoustic Guitar or Harp). I have a lot of fun experimenting using the various arpeggios with a given voice, especially by finding an arpeggio that I like and then adjusting the tempo to speed up or slow down the rate of the arpeggio.

Note that the Arpeggio and Harmony features are closely related to each other, which is why you can use one or the other, but not both at the same time. You could say that Harmony like a simplified Arpeggio, although that isn't quite right, since they behave a bit differently.
 
Joined
May 7, 2019
Messages
89
Reaction score
16
sir first thank you for such detailed reply. I really salute your knowledge that you remember even the references (page no).

if I try to imitate like a guiter player and play notes one after an other then the triads only have 3 notes or do I need to play fifth or seventh?

My second question, through this approach I only hit each guitar strings down but it's not strumming. Strumming is far more complicated (it is up and down pattern) and shifting chords b/w it will make it far more more complicated.

3rd question regarding sustain pedal, as believe this is the most practical approach to arpeggios (strumming of course), I don't have any idea of sustain pedal. so is there any specific sustain pedal for this model or there is a universal one. what's the difference b/w sustain pedal or foot pedal which one should I buy. I don't want to go for very high end pedal as my instrument itself isn't that much expense. I just need the right one which is durable n cover all needs

I also don't get why the pedal is necessary when there is setting in keyboard for holding arpeggios already
 
Last edited:

SeaGtGruff

I meant to play that note!
Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
3,727
Reaction score
1,579
Trust me, my memory isn't good enough to remember page numbers! :) I happen to have the Owner's Manual for the PSR-E363 downloaded to my iPad, so I looked in the manual to see which pages to refer you to. If I hadn't had the manual on my iPad, I would have viewed it on Yamaha's website. But I'd been checking out the new features and voices on the PSR-E363 (as compared to the PSR-E353) a few years ago when it came out, so I didn't need to go to Yamaha's website.

Your question about how many notes to play is tricky, because guitarists don't always strum across all 6 strings when they play a chord. But it's a good question, and could apply to any make and model of keyboard, so it would be best to cover it in a separate thread.

As far as the type of foot pedal or foot switch to get, I gave the names of the compatible Yamaha products in my previous post-- FC5, which is a foot switch, or FC4A, which is a foot pedal. The difference between them is that the FC5 foot switch is rectangular like a volume pedal (but smaller), whereas the FC4A foot pedal looks more like one of the pedals on a piano. Also, a foot switch is usually latchable, meaning you press down on it and it clicks on, then you can lift your foot off of it and will still be on; and you press down on it again to click it off. A foot pedal, on the other hand, is usually not latchable, meaning it doesn't register as being "on" unless you've got it held down with your foot, and when you lift your foot it will register as being "off" again.

To be honest, I'm not sure whether or not you do need a foot pedal or foot switch; it depends on whether the effect of the panel sustain button is affected by the "Pedal Function" setting. I assumed that the panel sustain is strictly for sustaining notes, but if it can also sustain the arpeggios then that's good. Have you tried it?
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Messages
4,271
Reaction score
2,479
Location
Lancashire, UK.
A guitar in standard tuning is tuned in 4th.

From to top string (thickest) vertically down the tune is:-

E - A - D - G - B - E

To play a C chord on a guitar three fingers will press on frets on the A D and B strings and with a downward stroke of the pick will play:-

E - C - E - G - C - E

Try replicating this combination of notes on a keyboard with just a slight difference in timing to account for the strum.

There are some excellent guitar patches, equally there are some dire ones but very rarely have I heard or even (with my limited keyboard skills) played any guitar sounds on a keyboard that compare favourably to a live guitar.
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
1,852
Reaction score
1,776
Location
Adelaide, Australia
@daniyal113 , the guys have posted some excellent info for you above.

Without wanting to sound negative, I think you're really going to struggle to get a STRUMMING sound out of your keyboard that is anywhere near realistic.

I'm sorry to say that a sustain pedal, while a useful addition to any keyboardist's arsenal, won't resolve all your issues because the mechanics of strumming also involve the damping of certain strings, and rapid fire up and down firing of each string, with only the tiniest time elapsing between each note sounding. Also, a realistic sounding strumming pattern should have a bit of syncopation in it, which massively increases the complexity of what you're trying to do.

Case in point - this is my friend and band mate Mark MacNab strumming a very simple pattern that predominantly goes between G major and C major. But as simple as it is, if you break down what's going on there there's plenty happening - I wouldn't even begin to try and replicate this on keys.


You'll note the chap on the video that Gary posted (who does a pretty good job) doesn't attempt to replicate true strumming either.

I think this is why guitarists have survived this long. We can't make them obsolete!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 6, 2017
Messages
4,271
Reaction score
2,479
Location
Lancashire, UK.
When a keyboard can bend three or four notes at different amounts, then it will they have a chance of being as expressive as a guitar can be.

Even with my limited musical skills when I play my guitar often when fretting and playing two strings at the same time one can be bent a full step whilst the other can be bent a half step.

I am sure Cowboy will see and hear this guitar technique all the time when his Pink Floyd cover band perform.
 

Rayblewit

Love Music / Love Life
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
2,510
Reaction score
1,995
Location
Melbourne Australia
WOW!!!
Paul.
That video of PIGS is unbelievably awesome!
The vocal would be awkward I would imagine. Getting the timing right would be a challenge. It is a complex tune and Matt makes it look easy. But I reckon would require supreme talent. I give Matt platinum ticks for his vocal ability.
The acoustic strumming and lead guitar are just first rate too.
This video is a treasure. I just love it!
Why have I not seen it before?
Are there any other treasures like this you are hiding?
Ray
 
Ad

Advertisements

Joined
May 7, 2019
Messages
89
Reaction score
16
Trust me, my memory isn't good enough to remember page numbers! :) I happen to have the Owner's Manual for the PSR-E363 downloaded to my iPad, so I looked in the manual to see which pages to refer you to. If I hadn't had the manual on my iPad, I would have viewed it on Yamaha's website. But I'd been checking out the new features and voices on the PSR-E363 (as compared to the PSR-E353) a few years ago when it came out, so I didn't need to go to Yamaha's website.

Your question about how many notes to play is tricky, because guitarists don't always strum across all 6 strings when they play a chord. But it's a good question, and could apply to any make and model of keyboard, so it would be best to cover it in a separate thread.

As far as the type of foot pedal or foot switch to get, I gave the names of the compatible Yamaha products in my previous post-- FC5, which is a foot switch, or FC4A, which is a foot pedal. The difference between them is that the FC5 foot switch is rectangular like a volume pedal (but smaller), whereas the FC4A foot pedal looks more like one of the pedals on a piano. Also, a foot switch is usually latchable, meaning you press down on it and it clicks on, then you can lift your foot off of it and will still be on; and you press down on it again to click it off. A foot pedal, on the other hand, is usually not latchable, meaning it doesn't register as being "on" unless you've got it held down with your foot, and when you lift your foot it will register as being "off" again.

To be honest, I'm not sure whether or not you do need a foot pedal or foot switch; it depends on whether the effect of the panel sustain button is affected by the "Pedal Function" setting. I assumed that the panel sustain is strictly for sustaining notes, but if it can also sustain the arpeggios then that's good. Have you tried it?
thanks sir Gruff I read the manual and thanks for the detailed info abt pedals. I will soon buy one, as soon as the lock down ends in my city. In mean time I am learning inversions, As first I assumed it was not of much importance in early days. I saw a video few days back where a guy demostrate arpeggios and strumming which requires near chords where minimum shift of key is possible.

The reason for posting this thread is to achieve strumming through Arpeggios. As the name of my post clearly indicates this. I am also not denying this fact that I have received golden advices from this post. I will implement on all and will figure out a way. soon I will follow up this post as soon as I encountered anything new while experiencing them.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top