Down the wrong path

[guscar66]

OK---so I am , a beginner but someway down the road, taking lessons for a few years now and play every Friday with a similar group of guitarists/keyboard/drummer. ----we are sufficiently competent to play through a set (usually about 24 numbers) ---following the chords getting the timing and rythm right, managing a few fills and intros etc.----nothing too complex. When i started I kinda fell into it, being gifted a middle of the road Casio keyboard (everybody seems to have one in their attic!)----after a while found its tone annoying (why does casio always have that aftertaste of video game about it?) ---anyway then fell over an old Technics 2600---which was a revelation----that led to a KN6000 (very heavy and delicate) then fell air to KN5000 a little lighter but very well used. So in my ignorance went and bought a Casio CtK 7200 (light , modern, and with drawbars!) --what a disappointment ----couldn't separate left and right volumes ---well not easily anyway, and guess what ---that casio aftertaste still evident!----albeit further in the background. So with my beloved 5000 failing I looked again ---this time settled on a Roland Vr-09----still not got to grips with it quite yet ---but it looks like it has another fatal flaw ----or maybe its just me being used to Technics----that (perceived flaw is) -----. when you play with 'split' (organ left/piano or other on right) which is like most of the time ---the Technics brought the octave to the left of the split to 'middle c' thus both instruments now in same octave ----it seemed right to me and still does. But the Roland does not. This makes the organ very muddy (as low chords on organs do).
So , I seem to be galloping down the wrong road trying to find a keyboard that did what the technics did---or is what technics did wrong? Any advice on finding the 'right' keyboard would be much appreciated .

 

[Biggles]

Road Trip time.

I suggest that you take a look at the Music Stores near(ish) to your location up there in God’s country and find those who have a good selection of keyboards all set up in Demo mode and visit them.

I’m a Korg fan and Kenny’s in Dunfermline or Dundee should have a good selection of their keyboards in stock but they will be more or vastly more expensive than the c£600 that you would have paid for a new VR.

The Technics were great keyboards, well ahead of their time and finding something similar is just not possible. The nearest you will get is a Korg Pa5X or a Yamaha Genos 2 and these are both £3000+ keyboards. That said it IMO would be worth you researching these are going and getting hands on, if you can play them back to back then even better.

You will then have an idea of the best two keyboards of their type that are currently available.

 

[Bouncingogre]

There are, currently 7 x Technics KN SX-7000's for sale on Ebay in the UK.
The most expensive is £600.
The least expensive is £300.

Obviously look at all the information that the sellers give you.
It just might be worth getting in your car!
I travelled 600 miles a few years back to pick up a Mint, still boxed, Tyros 1 with speaker kit, stand, stool and music.

Depends on how much you want it!!

 

[TedS]

If you're willing to persevere with your VR-09, I'm sure there is a way to change the octave of the LH voice. Then you can store "registrations" or presets of your favorite voice combinations once you have everything tuned to your preference.

The KN7000, though mighty, was last sold over 20 years ago. Anything that old will be long past warranty and susceptible to failure. I'm all in favor of a trip to the music store! However, if you have a drummer, guitarist, etc., try to decide for yourself whether you really need an arranger with rhythm and orchestrated accompaniment. My $.02.

 

[Bouncingogre]

Yeah, I agree with you Ted.
It's always the potential risk versus age factor with older keyboards.
But I was just illustrating that there are some pretty meaty keyboards around and Gus seems to like his Technics keyboards.
There are plenty of Genos 1, SX700, SX900 and even later Tyros 5 models out there too. Some chancers are still expecting big money for them, but they won't get it. A haggle is the best possibility they've got.
We've got a beautiful Technics SX-PR900 Ensemble piano which looks and sounds amazing. My wife plays it, and loves it. I play Korg Pa5X.
Buy I agree with both you and Biggles. The obvious choice is the music store.

 

[Biggles]

There is always an alternative solution.

Keep the VR and CTK and buy a 2 tiered stand, and a small mixer.

Mount the Roland and Casio in the order you want and away you go.

Job sorted and it is the cheapest option.

£165 for a 2 tier On Stage stand (the most robust that there is) and c£100 for a Mixer.

 

[guscar66]

I thank you all for your advice and experience----yes It appears I am looking for 'a holy grail' , well at the price I can afford anyway. I will carry on with the Roland --and see where it takes me. Strange though I cannot bear to part with the technics---a bit of bonding going on I think---I guess its particularly good when playing alone --with its great accompanies and rythms. --when left set up and not being heaved about. Still a bit cold about the Casio but worth some research in the light of advice. Just as an aside my teacher has a 7000 which although has more of everything----does not bring much more to the party (at the basic playing level) than the 6000 ----once again ---damn heavy. Price you pay for onboard sound .
If only you could get a 'stage' version of technics----and have separate amp/speaker when required ahhh dream on.
Once again thanks to all for your time.

 

[Alicekf8]

OK---so I am , a beginner but someway down the road, taking lessons for a few years now and play every Friday with a similar group of guitarists/keyboard/drummer. ----we are sufficiently competent to play through a set (usually about 24 numbers) ---following the chords getting the timing and rythm right, managing a few fills and intros etc.----nothing too complex. When i started I kinda fell into it, being gifted a middle of the road Casio keyboard (everybody seems to have one in their attic!)----after a while found its tone annoying (why does casio always have that aftertaste of video game about it?) ---anyway then fell over an old Technics 2600---which was a revelation----that led to a KN6000 (very heavy and delicate) then fell air to KN5000 a little lighter but very well used. So in my ignorance went and bought a Casio CtK 7200 (light , modern, and with drawbars!) --what a disappointment ----couldn't separate left and right volumes ---well not easily anyway, and guess what ---that casio aftertaste still evident!----albeit further in the background. So with my beloved 5000 failing I looked again ---this time settled on a Roland Vr-09----still not got to grips with it quite yet ---but it looks like it has another fatal flaw ----or maybe its just me being used to Technics----that (perceived flaw is) -----. when you play with 'split' (organ left/piano or other on right) which is like most of the time ---the Technics brought the octave to the left of the split to 'middle c' thus both instruments now in same octave ----it seemed right to me and still does. But the Roland does not. This makes the organ very muddy (as low chords on organs do).
So , I seem to be galloping down the wrong road trying to find a keyboard that did what the technics did---or is what technics did wrong? Any advice on finding the 'right' keyboard would be much appreciated .

I am not familiar with the VR-09 but on my Roland Juno DS-61 you can set up splits and then in the performance edit mode can change the octave range of each split - I had that same issue until I watched a lot of videos and tried it.

 

[Peter J Martin]

I love my Technics KN7000, on which everything works (lucky to get for £350)... but not sure how long it would last if gigging.

 

[Dasntn]

I'm pretty sure you can adjust the Octave for the splits on the VR09 on the menu somewhere, but I would very much recommend getting the free Roland VR09 editor from https://v-combo.webspace.rocks/vr-software - I use this with mine and it gives you such a lot of control in setting up the keyboard, and is much easier than the menus. You can also access more sounds than you can just via the menus on the keyboard. You could perhaps then use the Casio as a second midi controller keyboard with the VR09 (if you don't like it's sounds) and then use the second keyboard to control the split keyboard sounds (I think I could have phrased that better!) I use a midi keyboard linked to mine so can have two different voices (one for each keyboard).

UPDATE - on page 31 of the Reference manual it mentions setting the octave for split parts

 

[happyrat1]

My advice? If you've proven to yourself that you are serious about being a musician, you should sooner or later dump the training wheels of an arranger and invest in secondary stage piano or workstation to expand your sonic palette 50 fold .

That's my $0.02.

 

[happyrat1]

And guaranteed somewhere inside the VR's menu tree is an item listed as ACMPVOL or something similarly cryptic. Time to stop using the manual to stabilize the kitchen table and start getting an overview of the features of your board.


Hey!!! I just noticed this editor suddenly tries to autocorrect??? WTF???

I prefer to create my own. syntax errors thank you very much. :O

 

[guscar66]

My advice? If you've proven to yourself that you are serious about being a musician, you should sooner or later dump the training wheels of an arranger and invest in secondary stage piano or workstation to expand your sonic palette 50 fold .

That's my $0.02.

Thing is its tooo late for me to be a serious musician----74 going on 26---- I realised in 2015 when i took it up that it was never going to happen----I said to my teacher---no time left in my life for serious study----just want to bang out some favorite numbers ----he then took me through the 'three book system' where you only learn what you need to know as you go. Its been great really fulfilling. Right then ---thanks to all for this. I looked further into the Vr ----spent a whole day ----and yes !! its DOES everything I need! ----just needed to figure it out (the split and octave change is actually quite easy----once you sus out the method which is not obvious at first) ----so now being a VR 'user' I can see it for what it is. There are enough available sounds for me, although much, much fewer than Technics. The ones that are available are very good -----the organ sounds are just amazing ---when I do the intro to 'walk of life' ---its bang on the original tone. The piano JD and honky-tonk are favorite----strings are limited but found one that works----so few guitars (I do 'down south ' by Tom Petty) there is no 12 string , but the guitar that's there works Okay with a bit of reverb. Of course there are drum rythms but no auto start ---or accompaniment---but thats not what this board is all about. Keys are really sensitive, short travel----so not suited to piano BUT helps my old wrists as I have a bit of arthritis. SOOOO its going to suit me 90% of the time and thats fine-----My beloved Technics will remain set-up in the spare room as it is still the business for playing alone --the accompaniments just make you feel you have a great band behind you !

As a point of interest ---i have had a fair bit of experience fettling these Technics boards---(back in the day electro-mech and then electronics tech.) They don't respond well to being moved---their weight can cause damage to switches and circuitry (cracked boards) with even small 'bumps' . But I guess that's common to all 'performance' boards that have heavy amp and speakers onboard. The circuitry however is electrically quite robust, switches are good quality and they should last for years and years ----unlike some earlier boards that were well populated with electrolytic capacitors ---which have a limited life . I once brought an old KORG BX (?) back to life-----I changed two divider chips , one generator , two transistors AND 156 capacitors! mind you it did sound good once complete.

 

[Skipper57]

OK---so I am , a beginner but someway down the road, taking lessons for a few years now and play every Friday with a similar group of guitarists/keyboard/drummer. ----we are sufficiently competent to play through a set (usually about 24 numbers) ---following the chords getting the timing and rythm right, managing a few fills and intros etc.----nothing too complex. When i started I kinda fell into it, being gifted a middle of the road Casio keyboard (everybody seems to have one in their attic!)----after a while found its tone annoying (why does casio always have that aftertaste of video game about it?) ---anyway then fell over an old Technics 2600---which was a revelation----that led to a KN6000 (very heavy and delicate) then fell air to KN5000 a little lighter but very well used. So in my ignorance went and bought a Casio CtK 7200 (light , modern, and with drawbars!) --what a disappointment ----couldn't separate left and right volumes ---well not easily anyway, and guess what ---that casio aftertaste still evident!----albeit further in the background. So with my beloved 5000 failing I looked again ---this time settled on a Roland Vr-09----still not got to grips with it quite yet ---but it looks like it has another fatal flaw ----or maybe its just me being used to Technics----that (perceived flaw is) -----. when you play with 'split' (organ left/piano or other on right) which is like most of the time ---the Technics brought the octave to the left of the split to 'middle c' thus both instruments now in same octave ----it seemed right to me and still does. But the Roland does not. This makes the organ very muddy (as low chords on organs do).
So , I seem to be galloping down the wrong road trying to find a keyboard that did what the technics did---or is what technics did wrong? Any advice on finding the 'right' keyboard would be much appreciated .

 

[Skipper57]

OK---so I am , a beginner but someway down the road, taking lessons for a few years now and play every Friday with a similar group of guitarists/keyboard/drummer. ----we are sufficiently competent to play through a set (usually about 24 numbers) ---following the chords getting the timing and rythm right, managing a few fills and intros etc.----nothing too complex. When i started I kinda fell into it, being gifted a middle of the road Casio keyboard (everybody seems to have one in their attic!)----after a while found its tone annoying (why does casio always have that aftertaste of video game about it?) ---anyway then fell over an old Technics 2600---which was a revelation----that led to a KN6000 (very heavy and delicate) then fell air to KN5000 a little lighter but very well used. So in my ignorance went and bought a Casio CtK 7200 (light , modern, and with drawbars!) --what a disappointment ----couldn't separate left and right volumes ---well not easily anyway, and guess what ---that casio aftertaste still evident!----albeit further in the background. So with my beloved 5000 failing I looked again ---this time settled on a Roland Vr-09----still not got to grips with it quite yet ---but it looks like it has another fatal flaw ----or maybe its just me being used to Technics----that (perceived flaw is) -----. when you play with 'split' (organ left/piano or other on right) which is like most of the time ---the Technics brought the octave to the left of the split to 'middle c' thus both instruments now in same octave ----it seemed right to me and still does. But the Roland does not. This makes the organ very muddy (as low chords on organs do).
So , I seem to be galloping down the wrong road trying to find a keyboard that did what the technics did---or is what technics did wrong? Any advice on finding the 'right' keyboard would be much appreciated .

Try Yamaha YC series - I have Modx7+ too and love both