Ferrofish B4000+ issues resolved

[Gourockian]

Hi, this post details a couple problems I came across and the solution I found, which hopefully might help others.

I have a Ferrofish B4000+ hooked up via Midi to my Yamah Tyros2. The first issue I noticed was that when I switched on the Rotor effect of the B4000+, after playing for a few seconds it would turn off then sometimes back on for maybe a second or so. The second problem was that when using a Yamaha FC-7 Expression pedal to control the volume of both the Tyros and B4000+, the volume of the module initially would increase, but then decrease after about the mid-way position of the pedal. The volume of the Tyros, meanwhile, would increase over the full range of the pedal, as normal.

After experimenting with various settings, I discovered that both problems were being caused by Aftertouch being transmitted by the keyboard. I also found that I could fix them both by either of two methods. The first was to uncheck Aftertouch in the Midi Transmit section of the Tyros. The second method was to leave the keyboard transmitting Aftertouch data but on the B4000+ to set Aftertouch to 000, under the Rotor Threshold setting.

I'm no Midi expert (rather obvious) so to some other members with far more experience, this might be pretty basic stuff. However, if the above info helps even just one person, it will be worth posting.

 

[delaware dave]

Back in my Ensoniq days (early 90's) I actually used aftertouch to trigger the rotary slow/fast on that keyboard. One of the issues is that unless you can set aftertouch to a feel that your comfortable with you might turn it on/off accidentally. I find that aftertouch response is different in newer keybeds; some are difficult to engage (especially on the black keys) while my M-Audio controller's aftertouch gets triggered just with higher velocities; as soon as the bottom of the key hits, boom, aftertouch is engaged. So its a nice feature if the aftertouch can be adjusted to your playing style otherwise I often find it actually can get in the way.

 

[Gourockian]

Hi Dave, yes I do know that aftertouch can be set up to toggle between fast and slow rotary when desired . In my case it was happening when I didn't want it to. I don't play like some others where they are constantly switching between fast and slow (nothing against that style, btw) but prefer to have it on fast, perhaps for quite a long passage then back to slow. I don't really know why but for some reason, the B4000+ would revert to slow, even when playing the keys lightly and with different aftertouch thresholds set.

Actually, after re-reading my post I realize that I didn't use the correct terminology when I mentioned switching the rotary effect on and off.....I should have said switching between fast and slow but you obviously knew what I meant. Initially, I used a spare sustain pedal to
to select either fast or slow but it was not really ideal to have to keep it depressed so now I have temporary on/off switch wired to a jack plug. However, it would be handy if there was a way to not only toggle between fast and slow but to also switch the rotor on and off remotely.

On the B4000+, as you are already perhaps aware, the rotor effect needs to be engaged by first pushing the Rotor button to bring up the menu then using Knob A to turn it on, before you can select between slow and fast. I'm only playing at home for my own amusement (sometimes amazement) but I can see that if playing a gig, this procedure would be a bit of a distraction to any player.

 

[delaware dave]

I don't have a ferrofish (Happyrat does and perhaps he'll chime in) but it sounds like when you tried the sustain pedal approach you are having to hold down the sustain pedal the entire time (known as momentary behaviour) that you want to be on fast. There should be a way to latch the sustain so that you push down (and release the pedal) and it engages fast then push down (and release the pedal) and it reverts back to slow. This is known as latching behaviour. That is either a setting on the Ferrofish or the type of pedal itself. Note the HOSA pedals below, one is a latching pedal and one is momentary

Momentary

Latching

If this is the issue either set the Ferrofish to Latching internally in the menu system (if this is an option) or try purchasing a latching pedal. I use a footpedal to control speed and set it within my controller to be latching.

 

[Gourockian]

Well, you just helped me solve the issue with using the sustain pedal, for which I'm very grateful. I have three different pedals which are all non-latching but none are returnable as all came with used keyboards that I had bought over the years. Your mention of setting the Ferrrofish to latching internally got me checking the settings again and under Switch Input, there are four options, so I unplugged my temporary, latching stomp switch and plugged in a sustain pedal to the Switch socket.

The first option is "Slow/fast or Sustain", which I had set to Slow/fast but had to hold down the pedal. Setting it to Sustain just holds the notes as normal but does nothing for the Rotor. The second option is "2 state or 3 state", the latter including the mid-position brake. The third is "Switch or Key" and this is where I had set it wrong. I've got myself to blame for not reading the instruction manual carefully enough as it states "When using a key, every keypress advances the Rotor by one position". So by changing from Switch to Key, the rotor now changes from Slow to Fast by just one press on the 'sustain' pedal and back again of course with another press. The fourth option was just to invert the switch.

So again, thanks for your help, Dave. Now if I can just find a 1-step way to actually switch the Rotor on or off, instead of pressing a button then turning a knob, I'll be very, very happy instead of just happy. I've emailed Ferrofish to see if they have any suggestions so will have to wait and see what they say.

Regards, Al.

 

[delaware dave]

Well, you just helped me solve the issue with using the sustain pedal, for which I'm very grateful. I have three different pedals which are all non-latching but none are returnable as all came with used keyboards that I had bought over the years. Your mention of setting the Ferrrofish to latching internally got me checking the settings again and under Switch Input, there are four options, so I unplugged my temporary, latching stomp switch and plugged in a sustain pedal to the Switch socket.

The first option is "Slow/fast or Sustain", which I had set to Slow/fast but had to hold down the pedal. Setting it to Sustain just holds the notes as normal but does nothing for the Rotor. The second option is "2 state or 3 state", the latter including the mid-position brake. The third is "Switch or Key" and this is where I had set it wrong. I've got myself to blame for not reading the instruction manual carefully enough as it states "When using a key, every keypress advances the Rotor by one position". So by changing from Switch to Key, the rotor now changes from Slow to Fast by just one press on the 'sustain' pedal and back again of course with another press. The fourth option was just to invert the switch.

So again, thanks for your help, Dave. Now if I can just find a 1-step way to actually switch the Rotor on or off, instead of pressing a button then turning a knob, I'll be very, very happy instead of just happy. I've emailed Ferrofish to see if they have any suggestions so will have to wait and see what they say.

Regards, Al.

On typical midi devices there are two different MIDI CC#'s; one typically controls the rotary simulation being on or off and the other is for speed setting (fast or slow). Here's an example, for the Mojo Desktop organ module CC#85 controls on/off and CC#1 controls fast/slow. Per the MIDI documentation in the owner's manual:

I'm pretty sure I looked at the Ferrofish owner's manual a few years ago and the MIDI implementation chart didn't exist. If Ferrofish could tell you what CC# controls the rotary effect being off/on (let's say it happens to be CC#85 as above) you could send CC#85 from the Tyros via a switch of some sort (perhaps a button that sends MIDI control data). Setting the switch to Control CC#85 and a data value of 0 would tell the Ferrofish to turn the rotary off, when the switch is depressed again it sends midi value 127 (instead of 0) and this would tell the Ferrofish to turn the rotary on. On my Kurzweil I can set a switch and tell the switch to send a min value on depression and and a max value on the next depression. Each depression it toggles either 0 or 127. I happen to have a switch with a light on it, so when I depress the switch the light turns on and it sends 127, when I depress the switch again the light goes off and the value is 0. So the switch, like the sustain, acts as a toggled/latch switch sending CC#85 and flips between 0 and 127 each time it is pushed and the rotary would go on and off with every press. If the switch has a light on it then you'd have a visual in front of you letting you know if the rotary is set to be on or off. Better yet, depending on the MIDI design of the Tyros you could have it send the value when the preset is called up, so you call up the program and default the rotary to either be on or off, so everytime you call the program you know exactly what state the rotary on/off will be in when the program is called.

 

[Gourockian]

That's certainly good information to have but I think I'll wait to see how Ferrofish responds to my email before getting too involved in technicalities. To be honest, it's just a minor gripe on my part but it would be interesting to see if there is any way to resolve it.

While the manual still doesn't include the Midi implementation chart, it is available from their website here,

https://www.ferrofish.com/public/downloads/products/b4000-plus/B4000_midi_chart_V1.1.pdf.

As far as I can see, it does not list a specific CC for turning the Rotor on or off but perhaps they could be persuaded to include that in the next firmware update.

 

[delaware dave]

That's certainly good information to have but I think I'll wait to see how Ferrofish responds to my email before getting too involved in technicalities. To be honest, it's just a minor gripe on my part but it would be interesting to see if there is any way to resolve it.

While the manual still doesn't include the Midi implementation chart, it is available from their website here,

https://www.ferrofish.com/public/downloads/products/b4000-plus/B4000_midi_chart_V1.1.pdf.

As far as I can see, it does not list a specific CC for turning the Rotor on or off but perhaps they could be persuaded to include that in the next firmware update.

It does!

see page 6 of the link you have above:

 

[Gourockian]

Okayyyyy, if you say so. I did see that when looking through the list but didn't associate the word "bypass" with On or Off. However, CC 83 is not shown on the Tyros Implementation chart. Also, I can't find any reference to Midi assignable or programmable buttons or switches in the owner's manual.

I have a Korg PA1000 on backorder and once that arrives, I can try using one of the programmable buttons and see if I can get it to control the Ferrofish.