First keyboard to start a setup

[laMonaca]

Hello everybody,
I'm new in this forum. I finally decided to buy a "serious" keyboard to play some stuff with friends.
Are there any good keyboard in the 500-800€ range (used if necessary) that are good all-around ones?
Should be 88 or at least 76, genre should go from classic rock to prog, with some blues in it maybe.
I found a KORG m50 88 keys at 700€, how is it?

 

[happyrat1]

Take a look at Casio PX-360, PX-560, PX5S and Yamaha DGX-660 as well.

Gary

 

[Antallion]

M50 is a wise decision in that pricerange. Pianoplayer? 76/88?
Classic/progressive rock and blues, are primary parts of KORG devices. Open your eyes, you will see it in mostly rockbands.

I suggest you to give a used KROME 76 a try. Up-to-date engine, and the little brother of the KRONOS, the gear of Jordan Rudess. ^^

 

[happyrat1]

First of all just IMHO, the M-50 is an 8 year old keyboard.

This means aside from having more dated sounds it is also going to be due for some mechanical failures sometime soon. More so if it was used in a regularly gigging band. If you buy it, keep an extra 200 to 300 Euros handy for future repairs.

Secondly If you're aiming for 88 keys then you are looking for fully weighted, hammer action keys. Semi weighted 76 key models just don't cut it.

Thirdly the Krome 88 is way out of his price range.

And finally the Kronos is not the greatest keyboard ever made. You do realize it actually requires OVER 2 minutes to boot up right? If it crashes in the middle of a performance it's a very embarrassing wait time while you stand around waiting for it to reboot

My Kurzweil PC3K8 requires about 20 seconds to reboot with all my samples fully loaded and ready to go and that's as long as I'd ever want to wait.

Gary

 

[laMonaca]

@gary, sorry for explaining my self badly, it was evening here
I'm not searching for a digital piano, my goal is to find an all-around keyboard with the features of the m50 - for example, I had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with a KURZWEIL K2600 and that's the kind of keyboard I need.

@Antallion, I've been studying piano for quite a while, yes. It would be better 88 but they're costly.. Yeah Korg is really "spammed", I went to a gig of "Elio e le Storie Tese" last Saturday and Rocco Tanica was playing on both a Nord Stage 2 EX and a Kronos 2. The second keyboard player was using a Kronos or a Triton as well..

 

[happyrat1]

The digital pianos I listed are much closer to workstations than simply pianos. They all contain about a thousand editable patches each and can act as very credible MIDI controllers for soft synths as well.

Also don't let brand snobbery get in your way making your decision. Casio is making some amazing inroads into pro gear these days.

And if you're looking to buy new gear they fit neatly into your budget.

As far as buying used gear goes, it's buyer beware. Unless you have a very good idea of the history of the keyboard and how it was handled and stored you could end up blowing your wad on a miserable lemon that requires hundreds of dollars worth of repairs.

Gary

 

[laMonaca]

I really can't judge due to the fact it's the first serious keyboard I'm gonna buy...
My concern with digital piano is: beside internal sound banks, can they be programmed and are they as flexible as a, let's say, a Yamaha s90?

 

[Antallion]

finally not, like a yamaha s90, it's a synth/master in high-class range. For realtime controllers mostly u need a good workstation/synth instead of an e-piano sampler in your affordable priceclass. For more real soundcontrolling - more analog synth device. Try an Krome oder MOXF, really, eventually used. KORG is dedicated for the best piano and synth sounds in their device. Yamaha for natural sounds. Both with lot of programmable effects, sounds and userbanks. Mostly with the best of their "big brothers" of the device class. More money - more possibilities.

 

[happyrat1]

I can't speak for every make and model on the planet, but you'll have to do your own legwork comparing specs on the individual models you're interested in.

Depending on the individual manufacturer and model there are varying levels of tweakability.

Features to look for are splits and layers, the number of user slots available as "registrations" or "setups" or "user voices" as well as sampling (expensive on most boards) and envelope and filter tweakability (generally under FX sections) as well as on board sequencing if you find it necessary to run backing tracks and a step sequencer if you are into modern drum and bass music to name just a few.

Take a closer look at the Casio PX-5S and the PX-560 videos on youtube to see the programmability of these units. I can't really speak as to the programmability of the DGX-660 as I'm not a big lover of Yamaha.

Also worth considering is the level of support you'll find online for your board. I used to own a Korg TR76 and online support was essentially zilch.

Another feature worth looking at is availability of a computerized patch editor or do you have to make all your edits on the keyboard itself? Are third party patches readily available? Are they free or do you have to buy them?

Do you need accompaniment or backing tracks? Are you looking at workstations or arrangers or stage pianos? Do you want to work only with Synth sounds or do you need "bread and butter" sounds as well? (pianos, organs, strings, orchestral, etc?)

Personally if I needed to replace my Kurzweil Workstation these days I'd be looking at the Roland FA-08 or the Casio PX-5S or PX-560, but some of these are all almost double your stated budget.

Also don't forget you can use any decent MIDI keyboard as a computer MIDI controller as well so you can also use them with hardware modules and computer VST virtual Instruments to infinitely expand your range of sounds.

There is no perfect keyboard available at any price on today's market but what it boils down to is defining your needs and comparing specs and prices wisely in order to arrive at the best compromise for your budget.

Gary

 

[laMonaca]

Thank you very much, those are tons of precious inputs I'll start diving into the specs.

 

[Fred Coulter]

The digital pianos I listed are much closer to workstations than simply pianos. They all contain about a thousand editable patches each and can act as very credible MIDI controllers for soft synths as well.

I've got the Yamaha DGX-650, one generation back from the DGX-660 that you recommended. I wouldn't recommend it as a movable keyboard. It really wants to sit one place, on its heavy wooden stand. I like it, but I wouldn't tour with it.

Additionally, unless something's changed in the last generation, the sounds aren't seriously editable. I like the sounds, and there are lots of them, but what you've got is what you get. (Unless you got the soft synth route, which is a very valid one.)

 

[Fred Coulter]

And finally the Kronos is not the greatest keyboard ever made. You do realize it actually requires OVER 2 minutes to boot up right? If it crashes in the middle of a performance it's a very embarrassing wait time while you stand around waiting for it to reboot

I doubt that he wants a Kronos. It's WAY over his price range.

I've seen discussions of the boot time at http://www.korgforums.com/. Generally, the only issue players have had with the Kronos crashing in the middle of a set has to do with the power source and not an internal issue. (Don't laugh; those power cords are really easy to kick, especially when you've got cords all over the stage for all the other instrumentalists and you've got a vocalist who prances across the stage.) The approach taken by most Kronos players is to plug the damn thing into a UPS and site the UPS close enough to the keyboard so that the cord is less likely to be tripped over. This makes the need to reboot it much less likely. (Oh yeah, turn it on while you're setting up the rest of the keyboard section. By the time you're ready to play, it's ready to sound.)

Curious. What IS the greatest keyboard ever made?

 

[Fred Coulter]

Also don't forget you can use any decent MIDI keyboard as a computer MIDI controller as well so you can also use them with hardware modules and computer VST virtual Instruments to infinitely expand your range of sounds.

A different thought, assuming that laMonaca already has a computer. For his budget, he could get two MIDI controllers, one 88 key weighted one and one 7X or 61 key unweighted one. Then use his computer for all the sound generation. There are a bunch of free VSTs out there as well as paid ones.

It's not the way I would go, but it should be workable.

 

[laMonaca]

I have a decent desktop setup but, well - it is desktop so not very practical to move. How about a good rack with a 88 midi controller? I just found a k2600r at 450€

 

[happyrat1]

A Good rack like the Kurzweil along with a good controller like the Aurturia Keystation 88 or a Roland A-88 or an Akai MPK-88 would be an extremely sensible way to go.

It gives you the stability and reliability of a hardware synth along with the ability to upgrade piecemeal, a little bit at a time as well as the ability to use software synths with an iPad or iPhone or laptop offering you the best of all worlds really.

It also allows you to replace the part most prone to breakdown (ie the keyboard) independently of the sound architecture when it eventually dies. It's much cheaper to replace an $800 controller than it is to replace a $5000 workstation when it reaches its end of life. Cheaper to repair as well.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

Curious. What IS the greatest keyboard ever made?

Not certain if it's the all time greatest or not, but the most expensive keyboard ever made has to be hands down the Fairlight CMI.

By the time they went bankrupt in the mid 80's each unit cost $20,000 in parts alone just to build and sold for up to 60,000 UK Pounds!. Back when $20 grand was a sizeable down payment on a house

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairlight_CMI

 

[happyrat1]

Actually if you were to ask me what's the ultimate keyboard today I'd have to say it's the Music Computing KAMI XL Production Workstation.

http://musiccomputing.com/kami-xl-keyboard-production-station-windows/

Fully loaded with every option it will still run you over $18K USD plus taxes and shipping.

They are supposedly quite popular with the major motion picture studios.

If you were to ask me what tomorrow's ultimate would be I'd have to reserve judgement. But for the time being these puppies are a definite contender.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

One other suggestion for the original question.

If you decide to go the controller/rack module route, this is where a digital piano like the Casio PX-5S really shines. It not only has a full blown Hex Layer Editable Synth built in, but also along with the bread and butter sounds it's a decent 4 zone controller that costs about the same as an 88 key dumb controller by itself.

Best case scenario, I'd say start with a PX-5S as your controller and add and expand your modules and VSTi's around it.

Gary

 

[laMonaca]

I'm really oriented in AKAI MPK88 + K2600r, but quick question: is it possible to do some vocoding with them?

 

[happyrat1]

The K2600r can do vocoding in live sampling mode as long as you have the sampler option installed and enough RAM.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr00/articles/kurzweilk2600.htm

Gary