Hammer action for beginner. Pros and cons

[Incremental]

I recently started teaching myself keys on a synth action midi controller. Figured I need to start on sounds with velocity sensitivity to learn to control the volume of all the notes in chords. Very much doubt I'll ever be attempting the Flight of the Bumblebee. But I can imagine situations where I might come face to face with an acoustic piano.

I've read a bit on here on the subject. Most of which seems divided between those raised on hammer action and those who see it as an impediment to organ technique. For myself, I've come across some beaten up piano presets in Arturia that I struggle to control on an oversensitive semi weighted board. Which makes me think there might be some value in becoming at least slightly familiar with hammer action earlier rather than later in my journey.

No plans to get the best possible hammer action keybed on the market. But a hammer action Alpha or such is well within my fixed income. But first I'd like to get some opinions from more experienced players on the matter.

Hoping you all can help me decide.

 

[Biggles]

Before shelling out on a new keyboard I would look at making adjustments to the keyboard settings in the velocity profiles available.

Even with synth or semi weighted actions the feel varies considerably so a change of controller may give you the best of all worlds.

Rather than buy a controller with hammer action I would suggest you look at buying a digital piano.

A Yamaha P121 or P125 has a great action and these can be found second hand at a reasonable price, inbuilt sounds and speakers so an all in one keyboard. Any Yamaha, Roland or Korg DP will all sound pretty good and are available for a reasonable price.

Hammer actions very tremendously so if you can go and visit a music store as it is well worth trying a few before you buy, same with controllers.

 

[happyrat1]

I find a weighted synth keyboard more pleasant to play than graded weighted hammer action.

 

[Incremental]

Before shelling out on a new keyboard I would look at making adjustments to the keyboard settings in the velocity profiles available.

Ha. I've been adjusting velocity profiles preset by preset on the VSTIs. Never occurred to me to look into the controller software to do it just once. Thanks for stating what should have been the painfully obvious but clearly wasn't.

Digital piano is what I had in mind. Can't see the point in mixing knobs and sliders with hammers. Also it's throw and go if I want to write songs at someone else's house.

Thanks for the response. It's been helpful

 

[Incremental]

I find a weighted synth keyboard more pleasant to play than graded weighted hammer action.

Also helpful is any suggestion to ignore the GAS. Appreciated.

 

[Biggles]

Ha. I've been adjusting velocity profiles preset by preset on the VSTIs. Never occurred to me to look into the controller software to do it just once. Thanks for stating what should have been the painfully obvious but clearly wasn't.

Digital piano is what I had in mind. Can't see the point in mixing knobs and sliders with hammers. Also it's throw and go if I want to write songs at someone else's house.

Thanks for the response. It's been helpful

I bought a Yamaha P121 a few years ago, the 121 is the 73 key version of the 125 with Yamaha Graded Hammer Standard action.

The action was good, and in my playing of all the makes in the price range that I was considering the pecking order was Roland, Yamaha, Casio, Korg, the Kawai was good but the in store model the keybed clacked like a duck on heat. The Kawai does get the best reviews though and it was the top of my list prior to my music store visits (4 stores in one day).

The Yamaha only won as the controls were far better than other makes that required a button and a specific keybed key be pressed at the same time to change tones whereas on the Yamaha you simply pressed a button to change from Acoustic to say EP and pressing the same button multiple times scrolled through the tones in the category.

Yamaha have changed the model lineup and that includes a new keybed design in the GHC, graded hammer compact. I have not tried the P145 which is the starter DP in the P series.

 

[mwtzzz]

If you learn how to play on a piano, you can play any keyboard instrument including organ. Most organists don't grow up playing organ. They grow up on piano first.

 

[Steve Bolander]

A Yamaha P121 or P125 has a great action and these can be found second hand at a reasonable price, inbuilt sounds and speakers so an all in one keyboard.

Exactly what I was going to recommend.

 

[Incremental]

The action was good, and in my playing of all the makes in the price range that I was considering the pecking order was Roland, Yamaha, Casio, Korg, the Kawai was good but the in store model the keybed clacked like a duck on heat. The Kawai does get the best reviews though and it was the top of my list prior to my music store visits (4 stores in one day).

The Yamaha only won as the controls were far better than other makes that required a button and a specific keybed key be pressed at the same time to change tones whereas on the Yamaha you simply pressed a button to change from Acoustic to say EP and pressing the same button multiple times scrolled through the tones in the category.

Yamaha have changed the model lineup and that includes a new keybed design in the GHC, graded hammer compact. I have not tried the P145 which is the starter DP in the P series.

Tried a few pianos out. I really liked the feel of the Kawai but, as you say, the thumping and bumping would get to be intrusive at the levels I like to practise. Similar thing with Casio, although the situation improves if you spend more than I'm going to. Talking to a pianist in my mates trio last night. Had a tap on his Yamaha and it felt rather light. Which also put me off the Korgs I tried. But I was standing up, so my wrists were all wrong. Plenty of other Yammies for me to try.

Yet to play a Roland.I notice you rate them but don't really mention them beyond putting them in the good list. I see 2nd hand FP10s for good prices. Anything I should watch out for when trying one out?

I know I got to make my own decision. But inexperienced me is quite capable of overlooking some important features without a shed load of due diligence.

 

[Incremental]

Exactly what I was going to recommend.

No shortage of used ones around and all. Gotta love a new model for that very reason.

 

[Biggles]

The FP10 you quote has the same action as the FP30 which was the model that I tried.

I liked the PHA4 action but the piano sounds were not as good as Yamaha’s, but this sound preference is subjective.

It is 28 lbs in weight which for a digital piano with hammer action is pretty light.

 

[Incremental]

Proud owner of a Yamaha P-145. Got it new for a price that wouldn't impress American ears. But competitive with a used one if you have to drive all over the city a couple of times to get a good one.

Kind of liked the Roland action and their textured keys. But the 145 has plenty of resistance for me. And 2 button volume has to be a crime against something.

The weighted keys already cured a tendency to slip off the keys sometimes. I want to go nuts on the extra real estate but think I should go carefully on those heavy low notes. Plenty to work on sounding even across my chords in the meantime. This is so much fun, guys. Thanks to everyone who replied. Biggles gave me a lot to think about. Think me and the new toy going to be very happy together.

 

[Biggles]

A good choice.

New here in the UK these are £550 which equates to 1080AD.

You can connect the DP up to a Tablet and use it in conjunction with learning Apps like Playground Sessions or Flowkey or Skoove etc if this is of interest.

 

[Incremental]

$690 here. Hard to compare when inflation is still working its way through various costs. $850-1000 would get me a p225 or FP30 level piano. 3

One question I got is any reason not to plug a trs lead from the headphone socket to a mono amp? Can't think of 1 but I'd hate to do something stupid to my new baby. All my experience of stereo instruments is from the dual output days.

I will need some more structured learning at some stage. But my first goal is major and minor chords up, down and around the clock. Expect with those under my fingers I can start to jam with people w/out annoying them. Still, I'll work my way through all the available features. If it's there, why not use it?

 

[happyrat1]

Get a TRS to twin TS Y-cable or adapter, otherwise you get weird phase cancellation effects at the output. And use a DI box to match the impedance else you could blow out a channel.

Amazon.com : trs to ts adapter

Amazon.com : active di box

 

[Incremental]

Get a TRS to twin TS Y-cable or adapter, otherwise you get weird phase cancellation effects at the output. And use a DI box to match the impedance else you could blow out a channel.

Not sure if we are on the same page here or not. My ideal solution would be a 2 in 1 out mixer with the less knobs the better. The internet is awash with homemade boxes that purport to be exactly that but have reviews calling them fraudulent. I've even bought a couple that proved completely useless.

Plan b would be to take one channel of stereo and run that to a mono amp. No modulation in my sounds. But I'd probably have something favouring the high or low notes. And EQ it close enough for jamming.

Also not sure what you mean by using a DI to match impedances. Are we talking gain structures? Or are we talking about resistors that stop the channels fighting each other in ways I don't fully understand? Seen it mentioned on hobbyist sites but yet to find a clear guide to finding the right impedances.

Hoping you can cut through the fog a bit for me.

 

[happyrat1]

The headphone output comes out too hot for a line level input.

 

[Incremental]

That's helpful. Cheers for that

Edit: plus turns out there's a selection of DIs happily monotise stereo signals across a range of price points.

 

[happyrat1]

Personally I wouldn't buy a keyboard without stereo TS 1/4" Lines Out.

 

[Incremental]

At this stage I might not buy another keyboard. Unless I'm looking at regular gigs I've probably got it covered with my entry level gear.

Hopefully make less beginner mistakes when I'm less beginner.