Haven't even taken delivery, and Casio WK-7600 might be obsolete!

[CharlieWorton]

Man, I cannot believe this.

I just can't believe this.

I've been agonizing over which keyboard in the (roughly) CAD $500 price range to purchase. And, after a ton of research, I finally chose the Casio WK-7600. It's certainly not the best keyboard out there, but within my budget it seemed to offer the best mix of features and sound.

And I did know that NAMM was going on. And I was watching the press releases. And I knew it was several years since the WK-7600 replaced the WK-7500, and that a refresh was due.

And I finally figured, 'okay, that's it. If Casio were going to release something major at NAMM, they would have done it by now.'

So on January 24th I ordered my WK-7600.

And on January 25, this press release gets issued by Casio:

Casio Sets the Stage at Winter NAMM with the Introduction of Five New Digital Keyboards and Pianos

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

CASIO SETS THE STAGE AT WINTER NAMM WITH THE INTRODUCTION OF FIVE NEW DIGITAL KEYBOARDS AND PIANOS

New Models Boast Enhanced Design, Functionality and Next-Generation Sound Source

ANAHEIM, CA, January 25, 2018 - Casio America, Inc.,(Opens the Casio America, Inc., a leading manufacturer of electronic musical instruments, is showcasing its extensive lineup of digital keyboards and pianos at Winter NAMM 2018, including its brand-new CT-X series of portable keyboards, and Celviano AP-470 digital piano. Casio’s full portfolio of digital keyboard and pianos along with the new models, are on display in the company’s booth (#9502) from January 25-28 at the Anaheim Convention Center in Anaheim, CA.

Okay, it goes on. You can read the whole thing here: http://www.casioca.com/news/detail/...tion-of-five-new-digital-keyboards-and-pianos

but here's the gut punch:

CT-X Series
The brand-new CT--X line of portable keyboards boasts AiX (Acoustic & Intelligent multi-Expression), Casio’s next generation sound source, which is eight times more powerful than Casio’s current portables. Some features from the new series include: 600 tones, 195 rhythms and a new System Delay DSP in the CT-X700; while the CT-X3000 and CT-X5000 are equipped with 800 tones, 235 rhythms, 64 note polyphony, tone editing and a phrase recorder with four pads. The new series offers a re-designed chassis, in addition to enhanced speaker systems.

Casio’s latest portable keyboards are outfitted with Casio’s Step-up Lesson System which enable beginners to learn built-in songs, phase-by-phase, at their own individual pace. The CT-X700 (MSRP: $259.99), CT-X800 (MSRP$: 299.99), CT-X3000 (MSRP: $419.99), and CT-X5000 (MSRP: $799.99) keyboards will be available at select music dealers nationwide in early 2018.

So the CT-X5000, even if purchased at full list, might be a worthy contender. 64 note polyphony, a serious speaker upgrade, 800 tones, 235 rhythms, and more. It certainly seems to be similar to the WK-7600.

Here's more info:

The CT-X series of keyboards feature advanced specifications for advanced beginners to serious performers and players. All models feature the new AiX Sound Source*1 leveraging expertise that Casio accumulated in developing sound sources for its digital pianos. The AiX Sound Source allows the CT-X keyboards to faithfully reproduce the appealing sound of acoustic instruments such as guitars, drums, basses, brass, wind instruments, string ensembles and more.

"The CT-X series represents an unprecedented level of sound quality for Casio which is a direct result of the new AiX processor," said Stephen Schmidt, vice president of Casio's Electronic Musical Instrument Division. "The CT-X series is the first among Casio's product portfolio to use this technology and we look forward to implementing it in future products, as we continue to raise the industry bar for both quality and performance!"

The CT-X series provides high-performance Digital Signal Processor (DSP) effects that combine various algorithms to realize the perfect effect for each instrument sound. The CT-X700 and CT-X800's stunning instrument tones are perfect for beginners or advanced players that need an affordable and portable instrument while the CT-X3000 and CT-X5000 provide additional tones and DSP editing features, expression pedal inputs as well as more powerful speaker systems. The CT-X3000 has a 6W+6W speaker system and the CT-X5000 has an incredible 15W+15W high-output amplifier delivering powerful sound output for rehearsal or performance applications.

The CT-X700 (MSRP: $259.99), CT-X800 (MSRP$: 299.99), CT-X3000 (MSRP: $419.99), and CT-X5000 (MSRP: $799.99) keyboards will be available at select music dealers nationwide in early 2018.

Main Features of the CT-X5000 and CT-X3000

AiX Sound Source Reproduces the Natural Sound of Acoustic Instruments
The keyboards provide high-quality tones across every category of instrument, faithfully reproducing subtle nuances and gestures specific to each type of sound. The user can customize tones to taste using 100 DSP effects that combine various algorithms, three system effects (reverb, chorus, and delay) and 10 equalizer presets.

Wide Range of Tones and Rhythm Patterns Support Diverse Musical Genres
An extensive library of 800 tones and 235 rhythms supports diverse musical genres, and applications from composition, to arranging, to live performance.

New Speaker System Delivers Powerful Sound
The keyboards feature large-magnet bass reflex speakers and a 15W+15W high-output amplifier (maximum output of CT-X5000 model) to deliver powerful sounds for home or performance use.

Registration Function for Instant Recall of Performance Setups
The Registration function enables the user to save up to 128 keyboard setups including tones and rhythms. The user can instantly switch between complex playing patterns and tone/rhythm setups without configuring them every time, enabling versatile and seamless performance.

Composing and Arranging Features Help Bring Ideas to Life
In addition to configuring and saving tones and rhythms to suit the user, the keyboards provide a variety of features for composing and arranging. The Phrase Recorder allows users to record a musical phrase that can be instantly triggered using any of the four pads. The mixer can handle 42 different parts and the 17-track MIDI sequencer can save up to 10 original songs.

Accessory Jacks and Ports for Performing, Composing, and Arranging
An assignable jack can be used with either a footswitch or expression pedal. Also provided are an audio input jack for connecting external audio equipment, and a class-compliant USB port for connecting to a computer. An additional USB port supports memory devices to easily save and load data created on the CT-X5000/X3000.

Friendly User Interface Offers a Wide Range of Applications
The keyboards provide an expanded Registration function and four phrase pads, together with direct access buttons for Tap Tempo, Transpose, and Octave switching making the keyboards suitable for stage and live performances, as well as music schools and music classrooms.

Sophisticated Styling Matches the Advanced Specifications
The powerful speakers are embellished with distinctive red highlights, giving the keyboards a stylish, iconic look. The CT-X5000 is distinguished by a gray metallic finish that adds to the sophisticated styling.



So now, I'm completely turned upside down.

What the hell do I do?

I'm reasonably confident that Axe music would take the unopened WK-7600 keyboard back. At least, I have an email from them stating that they would provide refunds for purchases returned within 30 days. So I think I can get my money back.

But there's so much information that I don't have, and it's maddening. Does the new keyboard have 76 keys? That matters to me. A bunch of other stuff matters as well.

And there's no pictures, no nothing.

I don't know which way to jump. But it's for damn sure the ground is shifting.

Oh, man. This whole keyboard thing is just nuts.

I mean they make this big announcement literally One Day After I make my purchase.

I'm spun and floored.

judder. judder. >Charlie

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I don't know about Casio's new models yet, but with respect to their older models the CTKs are usually 61 keys and the WKs are usually 76 keys.

As I said in another thread, I just did the same thing as you with a Yamaha keyboard-- ordered the 2016 model the day before NAMM started, even though I expected the new model of that keyboard line to be announced at NAMM (and it was). So I know how you feel, but in your case I think the new models are more dramatically different than what you ordered.

So (1) if you think the new models are likely to be available soon, and (2) if you can bear to wait until they do become available, you might want to return the WK-7600 unopened for (hopefully) a full refund. But on the other hand, it might take a while for the new models to hit the stores-- so the real question is, how badly do you need/want a keyboard right now?

 

[CharlieWorton]

Hi, Michael - I appreciate your calm counsel. My eyes probably went a little bit wider than they should have. Even so, this looks like a pretty major upgrade to the Casio lineup. I think I'd be regretful if I turned my back on it.

Given the limited knowledge that I have right now, I think it would be best for me to return the WK-7600 unopened. I'm fortunate that the Axe music warehouse is in Edmonton, and that they've told me that I can simply return the keyboard myself. That saves me about $100 in shipping fees.

I do have a Kurzweil and a Yamaha keyboard, and I also have my Yamaha acoustic piano. So I'm not suffering terribly. I can bide my time for a few months, until the models are all out there and widely available.

Whoosh. Four hours ago, I fully expected to be a WK-7600 owner. Now... poof.

Ah, well. It's a good thing. I just wish I'd seen the press release before I pushed the Buy button.

Here's a link to the only CT-X keyboard Casio has released - the bottom of the line Casio CT-X700:

http://www.casiomusicgear.com/products/ct-x-series/ct-x700

There are some audio files to play, and they do sound quite impressive. But of course, you'd expect that.

Given the slight price difference between the 700 and 800 models, I suspect the CT-X800 will be a 76 key version of the CT-X700. However, the same logic doesn't hold on the 3000 and 5000 models; the former is $420 MSRP in USD, and the latter around $800. So, who knows? Maybe there are CT-X4000 and CT-X6000 models in the offing, 76 key versions, that have yet to be announced.

I guess we'll all have to just take deep breaths, think of randomly strumming harps and geese floating on a placid lake, and absorb peace from the universe.

Or at least I have to do that. The rest of you are all probably just fine.

Peace - Charlie

 

[happyrat1]

1) As you said, prices are in USD...

2) While there may be some significant upgrades in the new boards, remember it takes anywhere from 3 to 6 months between when a product first appears at NAMM and finally appears in retailers. Canada always gets them at least a month or two later than the US does.

My advice is to return the 7600 for now and wait for prices on the obsolete stock to drop by 20 to 30% while they liquidate and perhaps take a look at some higher end Casios that are being obsoleted. Such as the PX-350 or PX-360.

Just because a product is discontinued does not mean that it is worthless. And buying the latest and greatest is not always the smartest move.

3) None of this would even be an issue if you'd simply gone for the Juno in the first place Perhaps you should be saving your pennies and end up with a DS61 or DS88 after all

Gary

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I saw the CT-X700 for sale at Musician's Friend (IIRC), so that model at least is either out already or available for preorder-- I didn't follow the link to the store's site to see.

 

[CharlieWorton]

Well, we got a 6 inch dump of snow last night. It had to be cleared and I figured I was pretty much over my flu, so I went out and did my property and my neighbors on either side.

Guess what? I'm not over my flu. Sitting in my recliner now, weak as a kitten. Barely able to type, but, ya know, the entire world is entitled to my opinion. Gotta get it out...

I think the advice to return the 7600 to Gary is good advice. I put in an email to him about midnight last night, haven't heard back yet. But I'm sure I will.

I decided to do a major renovation of my computer room/music room/bedroom. While I was sick, I created a 3D CAD model of everything in my bedroom. (I didn't bother to model the pile of dirty clothes.) This lets me haul everything around in virtual space, and try different arrangements. Here's an image of the 3D drawing:

The speakers are Jim Richards, an audiophile brand from the 1970's which are noted for their clean and neutral response. The desk is an Ikea plank, fastened to the wall at the back with angle brackets and supported by Ikea legs. Under the desk on the left is an audio amplifier, under that a mid tower computer, and a computer keyboard on a slideout drawer to the right of the audio amplifier. Keyboard on the desk is a Kurzweil K2000s; to the left, a partially completed model of a Casio WK-7600; and the big blue blob on the right is an unfinished model of my Yamaha YPG 525. (I wish I'd modeled that instead of the 7600.) The computer monitor will be wall mounted on a cantilevered mount that extends and pivots.

I wouldn't have gone to all this trouble normally, but I was sick in bed and it was a useful way to keep my mind active. And it proved useful; I was able to move things around in virtual space, and try different approaches. I thought about mounting two keyboards above one another, but the mounts are really expensive and I kind of wanted all the keyboards to be at the same height, so I could just swivel around in my chair and play.

I don't know if this is a decent arrangement or not; I've never crafted a music production area before. If any of you have experience in this, please comment.

Just got word from my surgeon; I'm going in for (more) hand surgery on Feb 26, and then again in early March. I will admit to some apprehension. In theory, I'll have considerably better use of my hands after all the dust is settled. At least, that's the theory. We'll see.

That's all I got. As Charlie's world turns. Peace - Charlie

 

[CharlieWorton]

Just heard from Brad at Axe music.

"... If you wish to return the board, we will make that happen. Just refuse the shipment from Purolator and they will return it to us.

Just let me know that you are doing so.

Thanks,

Brad
(end quote)

So, that's good news. I'm really pleased that Brad was so accommodating. My opinion of Axe Music is improving.

>Charlie

 

[CharlieWorton]

Hi, Michael; you were quite correct in your suggestion that musicians friend had it listed. Available Feb 02 for $175 USD. Here's the blurb:

OVERVIEW

A lightweight, portable keyboard with 61 keys, 600 tones, 195 accompaniment rhythms and many other great features.

The CT-X700 is the right choice for casual or beginning players and its stunning sound makes it a must-have for keyboardists of any level who need a portable instrument.

What truly sets the CT-X700 apart from other portable keyboards is its heart: The powerful AiX Sound Source. This technology makes the CT-X700 sound like a keyboard costing hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. Choose from 600 Tones using the Category button and in each category, you'll find an incredible variety of lifelike instruments that go far beyond your expectations. Affordability has never sounded so good. Play a grand piano, and hear a meticulously-recorded 9-foot grand piano in a virtual concert hall. Play an electric piano, and hear vintage phasers and amplifier models that take you back in time. Play a flute, trumpet, or saxophone, and hear natural breath and vibrato. Play a synth, and add an arpeggiator and drum part, and write the next EDM hit.

With the hundreds of built-in Rhythms, you'll always have a band ready to jam. The variety of Rhythms spans the globe as well as the history of popular music. You'll find old favorites and chart-topping hits, all played with incredibly realistic instruments that sound better than ever. The drum kits come alive with authentic acoustic drums, vintage drum machine sounds, and a huge collection of percussion instruments and sound effects.

Quickly capture your inspiration with the six-track recorder, or enjoy the library of 100 built-in Songs. Use the Step-Up Lesson system, to easily learn the Songs, with the display showing proper fingering and notation.

The class-compliant USB-MIDI port connects to any Mac, PC, Android or iOS device with no drivers or installation needed. The included music rest is designed to support tablets, and there's even a built-in smartphone shelf to hold your device as you use the CT-X700 with your favorite music apps.

FEATURES

61 full-size touch-responsive keys
600 Tones, 195 Rhythms
Bright, backlit LCD display
Great-sounding built-in speakers
1/4" headphone out 1/8" audio in
Smartphone shelf
Class-compliant USB-MIDI
Includes AC adapter or 6xAA batteries (sold separately)

...and this is the bottom of the line. It will be interesting to see what the more expensive models can do.

>Charlie

 

[SeaGtGruff]

When I went to Casio's web site last night, they kept prompting me to enter to win a CT-X700, so I entered. I'm guessing the odds of me actually winning are the same as winning the lottery-- slim to none. But as they say, "You can't win if you don't play."

 

[happyrat1]

The CTX isn't even listed on Casio's Canadian website.

Like I said earlier, it'll be 3 to 6 months before any Canadian vendors will start carrying them.

If you really want to wait that long then go ahead, but I think you'd be better off looking at huge discounts on the stuff they will discontinue in the following months.

EDIT >>> BTW, Casio has always been big on hype but weak on delivering the hype. While I assume they are using bigger ROMS for the samples, it's still a basic ROMpler.

At least wait until you can actually hear one playing before you pull the trigger.

Also you might want to consider the new Roland GOKeys as an alternative.

Gary

 

[Biggles]

I like your 3D modelling Charlie ......... just one major problem .... not enough kit

Regarding your dilema why dont you ring Axe to see if it has been dispatched and if not ask to cancel the order so you can get one of the new models instead?

 

[CharlieWorton]

Hi, Michael! Yeah, I entered as well. For all the hype, the CT-X700 is an entry level keyboard - no audio out (unless you count the headphone hack), 6 track (not 16) recorder, didn't see anything resembling a sequencer, and they're including aids to learning. Definitely intended as a first keyboard. Nonetheless, I'd love to have one.

What really interests me is the sound. I'm really looking forward to hearing the new sound engine, as well as reviewing the specs.

Hi, Gary! Thanks for the links and recommendation on the gopiano and gokeys. I listened to the demo (german? Swiss? I dunno). The price is certainly well within the ballpark. But I'm looking for a 76 key keyboard, and the gokeys is 61. Actually, I did a quick scan through rolands line up, and the only 76 keyboards I found were controllers. Did I miss their 76 key section? I can't believe they would ignore that market segment.

I think your advice to watch for sales over the next 6 months to be very good indeed. Even if I do decide to purchase a WK-7600, I might save $50 or $100. But I do have the Kurzweil and the Yamaha to tide me over, and they are both capable enough keyboards, although somewhat dated. And I'm busy setting up my Acoustic Production Suite, AKA a corner in my bedroom. I'll have the opportunity to work with software such as Reaper, and that will help me decide how important it is to me to have those functions replicated on the keyboard. It may be that if all I need are tones, a different brand might hold more promise.

I will admit that, having decided to return the keyboard, I still feel very let down. But, intellectually, it was the right decision. If I needed a keyboard right now for a gig tonight, it would be different; but I don't have that need. I think I need to slow down, and become very familiar with the capabilities of all the brands. Knowledge is power.

I hear you regarding Casio overpromising and underdelivering. This will be my first experience with them; we'll see how things turn out.

BTW, Brad agreed to take the WK-7600 back, and offered me a full refund. I feel that was more than fair, and it has caused me to re-evaluate my feelings towards Axe. I felt lousy at the time, and that may have played a significant role in the conclusions I arrived at.

Hey, Biggles! I did reach out to Axe, and Brad advised me to refuse the delivery, which I did. So it's on its way back to Axe, and Brad has told me that Axe will pay for the transportation costs both ways. I did volunteer to drive the kbd back myself, but he suggested I refuse it instead, so I did.

So, the way this whole thing shook down is as follows: I ordered the keyboard from Axe through Amazon, they shipped it, I got the Casio press release and had a panic attack, Brad agreed to take it back, and so I refused it and it's on its way back. And here I sit, with a very bad case of keyboardus interruptus, commonly known as Blue Fingers. Sigh. The next time I buy a keyboard, it's gonna be the real thing. No calling it off at the altar. And no damn condoms, either. Full bore.

Ah, well! Great adventures lie in store. Onward! >Charlie

 

[Biggles]

Sounds like you need to hunt out the biggest keyboard store in North America ........ then go on vacation there.

It will be like going to Disneyland or Las Vegas.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

For all the hype, the CT-X700 is an entry level keyboard - no audio out (unless you count the headphone hack), 6 track (not 16) recorder, didn't see anything resembling a sequencer, and they're including aids to learning. Definitely intended as a first keyboard. Nonetheless, I'd love to have one.

The Yamaha PSR-E4xx keyboards also have a PHONES jack rather than audio out (with the exception of the new PSR-EW4xx models), a 6-track recorder, and lesson functions. The PSR-E2xx and PSR-E3xx models don't even have a 6-track recorder! The simple song recorder on the PSR-E models doesn't have any punch-in/punch-out for editing single events, so if you make a mistake then you either have to rerecord the entire track from the beginning, or convert the recording to a standard MIDI file and import it into a MIDI editor for additional work.

On the PSR-E4xx models a track can have more than 1 channel. There are 5 main tracks, and 1 accompaniment track. The accompaniment track uses only 1 channel in the song recording, but it actually controls (via musical key and chord type changes, along with accompaniment section changes) all of the channels of the accompaniment, of which there are 8 maximum (some accompaniments use fewer than 8 channels). A main track can record a layered voice, or up to 2 channels at once. So it's possible to record a 6-track user song which will convert to a 16-channel standard MIDI file when you use the "Save SMF" option to export the user song.

I don't know the specifics of how the 6-track recorder of the CT-X700 works, but I found the User Guide at Casio's web site, and it sounds like you can record with a split and/or a layer-- so it's possible that you might be able to use the 6-track recorder to create a 16-channel MIDI song, as on the Yamaha PSR-E4xx models.

However, my personal opinion is that these sorts of built-in song recorders are best used for quick recordings only, and that any serious recording is best done with a DAW.

 

[CharlieWorton]

You found the user guide? What a cool idea! I never even thought to check. I haven't worked with either a DAW or a keyboard with an editable multi-track recorder, so I cannot comment knowledgeably on the topic. One of my reasons for getting my music area set up properly with a computer is to learn to use a DAW. That will allow me to determine if the recorders built into some keyboards represent real value to me. My keyboards never leave my home, so recording functions in the keyboard might be redundant if they're always hooked up to a computer.

I've been doing some research on the Juno - listening to YouTube videos and such. They make an 88 key version that is a special order item only at Axe. I think Axe is looking for around $1400 for it, but given that I now have time to save, perhaps my horizons will expand to include that number. I like the fact that it will easily accept tons of additional tones, and that it will accept standard .wav files. Gary has suggested The Juno a few times, and those suggestions are not falling on deaf ears. The problem is stretching the wallet. Perhaps I will deliver pizza or something.

Take care! >Charlie

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Looking at the manual for the CT-X700, I see that there are no functions for modifying the voice parameters and saving them to a user voice-- which is pretty much what I expected, given that it's apparently the lowest model in the new CT-X line. But the MIDI implentation chart indicates that it does respond to CC messages for filter cutoff, filter resonance, attack time, release time, etc.-- even portamento time and portamento on/off! That means it should be very handy as an inexpensive sound module. I'm liking it more and more!

 

[cpcohen1945]

Man, I cannot believe this.

I just can't believe this.
. . .

judder. judder. >Charlie

Before you decide that the CTX-700 (I think that's the right number, but it might be a motorcycle) is suitable, check the "Polyphony" spec. I think it's either 12 or 16 notes -- not enough for complex music using the sustain pedal. The specs are on the Casio website, along with the user manual.

It really is a "first keyboard".

. charles

 

[SeaGtGruff]

check the "Polyphony" spec. I think it's either 12 or 16 notes

I think you may have been looking at the specs for the CTK-700, which is a much older model that did indeed have a maximum polyphony of 12 notes-- and a whopping total of 100 tones, woohoo! (You know a particular model of Casio or Yamaha keyboard is really old when you see it has 100 tones, which is even fewer than the GM1 specs call for.) You wouldn't be able to find a CTK-700 for sale in a music store, but you might find it at a flea market or listed for sale on eBay, Craigslist, or an equivalent site.

On the other hand, the new CT-X700 has a maximum polyphony of 48 notes, and a total of 600 tones. But it sounds like Charlie isn't interested in a 61-note keyboard, anyway, so I think the CT-X700 is out of the running.

 

[CharlieWorton]

Yes, I think all 4 of Casios new keyboards are out of the running. The only possibility would be to use one as a rack module, controlled by a controller keyboard. But that seems a really kludgy solution. >Charlie

 

[cpcohen1945]

Oops -- sorry for the error. You're right -- I was looking at the CTK-700.

Defence: That's the manual that comes up, when I search for a "CT-X700" manual on Casio.com .

. Charles