Help me pick my next gigging keyboard!

[Biggles]

I did try a couple of Casio’s in their S series.

The upside of them is that they are compact and light weight for a DP with 88 keys, of 25lbs and their price point, $850 for the 3100, $1800 for the 6000.

The 3100 has 700 onboard sounds & the 6000 has 350.

Keyboard action is a bit different.

I would be surprised if you did not find that the suggested Yamaha CK88 has the best Acoustic Piano Sounds, their GHS action is also pretty good, I used a keyboard with this action for a couple of years.

Of all the DP’s I have tried the Roland has the best hammer action in their PHA, but not the best sounds.

You probably have quite a sizeable list by now, good luck finding Music Stores with them in stock and playable.

 

[Soryt]

Yamaha CK 88 13.1Kg the way to go

 

[Pete The Greek]

Studiologic Numa X Piano 73 is within budget, has nice hammer action (Fatar TP/110), good piano voices, lots of other voices, USB audio interface, and a very compact 25.8 lb package.

I would not discount how much better a 73 key board is (vs 88) for transportation, load in, small stages, and load out. I gig with mine 1-2 times per week. For me it works well.

One big issue (common to many of the options) is finding one to try out in person. Unlike the Yamaha CKs you will not find one in your local big box guitar retailer. I was lucky that a local independent music shop had one. Otherwise I probably would not have taken the risk. As for the CKs, as a pianist I find that 61 keys is way too few, and synth action not acceptable. For me the CK88 action is not as good as the Numa X Piano 73 (nor as good as the Yamaha CP88), but that's me..

As a pianist you may not be happy with any of the non-hammer action options. The Korg Liano is the best I've tried, but it only has 8 internal sounds and for me only the grand pianos and EPs are useful. With the USB audio interface you can expand the sounds with an iPad (and money for apps!). But that's a bit more of a hassle to set up.

 

[stinkfoot70]

Thanks Pete. The Numa x 73 seems like the closest match to my wish list so far. Hopefully I can find one to put my hands on

 

[stinkfoot70]

Anyone have any experience with the Numa Compact X SE? It looks like the same engine as the Numa X, but lighter, with on board speakers (nice to not have to plug in for practicing), and without all the mixing board capabilities of the Numa X that I'd never use. I'm asking because it's questionable about whether the touch and action is as good on the Numa Compact X SE as the Numa X Piano. Doesn't come in a 73 but if touch is quality, checks a bunch of boxes

 

[Pete The Greek]

Anyone have any experience with the Numa Compact X SE? It looks like the same engine as the Numa X, but lighter, with on board speakers (nice to not have to plug in for practicing), and without all the mixing board capabilities of the Numa X that I'd never use. I'm asking because it's questionable about whether the touch and action is as good on the Numa Compact X SE as the Numa X Piano. Doesn't come in a 73 but if touch is quality, checks a bunch of boxes

There was a used Numa Compact of some variety at my local big box guitar retailer. I disliked the action (for piano). It's probably good for organ. Maybe one gets used to it.

 

[Biggles]

I had the prior model.

The action for me was the best of all the non-hammer actions that I have played.

Onboard acoustic piano sounds were pretty good and the drawbars made it a great board.

Plug in an iPad and additional features are available via their App.

I am not a Piano player per see but the Compact is semi-weighted with aftertouch and so a transition should be relatively straightforward.

 

[Pete The Greek]

That's very useful information. Those boards have a great feature set. Sounds great if you are comfortable on a semi-weighted keyboard.

What I am focusing on is that the OP said (of their current board) "I love that keyboard because it feels more like a piano than my piano".

No semi-weighted keyboard will feel "like a piano". But that's ok! There's a market for these boards.

There is always compromise.

I'm just saying that for a piano player a semi-weighted keyboard may not be the best compromise unless other factors are more important than a weighted keybed (e.g. price, weight, drawbars, etc).

 

[BrianT]

Compromises are hard, and "one size fits all" usually means it probably doesn't fit very many all that well.

If someone wants a piano feel, the keyboard they'll gravitate towards will likely be heavy or clunky when trying to play organ or synth. If someone wants a great organ or synth feel, the keys will feel shallow and likely lack any depth perception in velocity control, expression, that kind of thing that one would expect with a piano action if trying to play piano.

There are times when it's good to look at a more realistic piano type action for piano type work and a separate (often considerably smaller and lighter) keyboard for organ/synth type work where the keyboard fits what's being played on it a little better. I know that adds a bit of complexity and one more case to carry, perhaps a different stand.

Just a couple of thoughts that come to mind...

 

[stinkfoot70]

Thanks. I mostly play piano jazz so piano feel very important to me. I'll see if I can get my hands on one to answer the semi-weighted question myself.

 

[anotherscott]

Thanks Pete. The Numa x 73 seems like the closest match to my wish list so far. Hopefully I can find one to put my hands on

Ah yes... once we moved away from it necessarily being something that would save you some noticeable amount of weight (i.e. when I mentioned the CK88). I should have mentioned this one as well. The Numa is lighter than the CK, and I agree with Pete, it has a better action. I'd probably give the CK the edge on the sounds that you're concerned with (piano, EP, and esp. organ), but the Numa may well be just fine for you... and if sometimes not, then like the CK, it's easy to also get sounds from an attached iPhone/iPad if need be.

Anyone have any experience with the Numa Compact X SE? It looks like the same engine as the Numa X, but lighter, with on board speakers (nice to not have to plug in for practicing), and without all the mixing board capabilities of the Numa X that I'd never use. I'm asking because it's questionable about whether the touch and action is as good on the Numa Compact X SE as the Numa X Piano. Doesn't come in a 73 but if touch is quality, checks a bunch of boxes

I'm not sure it's the same sound engine as the Piano X, but regardless, no, the action is not at all comparable. As mentioned, it does not have a hammer action, it is a semi-weighted, and as I said earlier, for piano playing, it's not even one of the better semi-weighteds (though not the worst, either). Though as mentioned, it's better for organ, and does give you a ton of capabilities for the money and travel weight.

If you like having the speakers, getting back to the CK vs Numa X, the CK has speakers while the Numa X does not.

 

[Pete The Greek]

I never hear anything about the Yamaha CP73, which has the same sounds and controls as the CP88, but a different (inferior) weighted keyboard. Anyone have one, or ever try one?

I bring it up because in theory it is another possible solution for a piano-centric player looking for a weighted keyboard. Pricey, but maybe used is within budget.

I know the CP88 piano sounds are better than the Numa X Piano 73 (at least to me - I have both), and I prefer the CP88 action to the Numa X Piano 73. And its controllers are more 1:1 than the Numa. But 15 pounds and and 15 extra keys is a lot to handle, and the Numa is good enough sound wise and action wise.

The CP73 is about 30 pounds as I recall, and has a USB audio interface like its big brother.

What I don't know is how the weighted action on the CP73 compares to the CK88 vs the Numa X Piano 73.

 

[anotherscott]

I'd say the Numa X piano 73 feels a bit better than the CP73, but the CP73's piano/EP sounds are better than the Numa's. The Numa of course is lighter and cheaper.

 

[zstringer999]

I tried gigging with my Yamaha P125, but at 30 pounds it just wasn't worth it. Used to have a Korg Kross (10 lbs!) which even had a carrying handle.

Now I gig with my trusty Yamaha CK61, which comes in at 12.3 lbs. Plenty of sounds, and it's very easy to create custom patches, and switch between them. Has organ drawbars.

Good luck with your keyboard hunt.

-Peter

 

[mwtzzz]

Nord Stage 3

 

[amwilburn]

If only the Stage 3 were still available; if only the Stage 4 wasn't over $8k CAD...

 

[stinkfoot70]

Thanks for the quick education everyone! I'm leaning heavily towards the numa x piano 73. The features and UI are more appealing to me than the others. It's seems like a nice step up to more sounds and stage options than the kawaii, yet the actions sound like they're (roughly) similiar. Tough finding one to try out so far tho

 

[happyrat1]

Seriously is touch really all that important in a keyboard? Aftertouch adds a nice bit of expression to most voices, but are the piano dynamics really that significant in modern music?

I'm constantly switching between varying synth/organ keys and weighted piano action in practice and basically if I can see the notes in front of me, I can squeeze music out of it. The sensitivity of the dynamics doesn't matter unless it's a classical style piece. Fingers usually adapt to the situation within a few minutes.

 

[Pete The Greek]

Other keyboards with the Fatar TP/100 action, which you might possibly encounter:
Studiologic SL73 mk2
Arturia KeyLab 88 mk3

They have no internal sounds but you could at least try out the keys. But make sure to try with some sort of sound if you can - I can't assess a weighted keyboard with the sound off!

There are plenty of boards out there with the TP/100 action (e.g. Nord Electro HP, the original SL73) but some people dislike the TP/100 action (like me) and yet like the TP/110 action (like me). There no telling what you will think.

There is no harm in trying a semi weighted action if you run across one. If - like happyrat1 - you adapt "within a few minutes", great. If not, then weighed action is definitely important to you.

 

[jmemcse]

I have a VR-09- not a good choice for piano based players - great for organ. I'm going to buy a CK61 just to check it out. I gig with a Nord Stage 4 and am doing mostly piano and EP, so it works well. It has a Fatar TP/80 keybed, which is not bad for piano or organ.