How to be heard - or dominate!!

[Iain]

Hi
I have been using a behringer K3000FX 300 watt amp for playing live. Mainly using Yamaha MO8 for piano, Rhodes, Strings and Roland Vk-7 for hammond ... currently playing blues .... Had the amp a while and recently decided to crack it up so that I could be heard over the 2 ... yes 2 guitarists in the band ... oh and 1 well loud bass player ..... anyway .... I blew the horn .... so now had repair done all back to normal but I really feel the need for a bit more power ideally with the abaility to go stereo eventually ... funds permitted ... does anyone have any advice or views on good on-stage amplification ... band only uses backline for gigs. Only vocals through PA.

 

[goz211]

Budget - the Mackie Thump range (12A or 15A)

Expensive - QSC K range (K10 or K12)

Iain - I see your location as Scone and you've the Scottish spelling of Iain - is that your band I can hear rehearsing from the other side of the river?

 

[goz211]

Kidding.

 

[Iain]

Not me guv ... only got a wee amp ... thanks for your tips like the idea of the K series just the cash .... thought that the Mackies might not be quite enough ... dont want to run out of juice.

 

[goz211]

The Mackie on a mic stand near your head.

Maybe send a little bit of your keyboards to the PA.

Is it loud electric "Chicago" Blues?

I suspect I'm teaching my granny to suck eggs here - but you know you will damage your hearing. I did two years with a loud blues band back in Ireland and used ear plugs after a few months. I don't gig at that volume any more. One of the Horsecross sound team recommend the guy on South Methven Street (?) He can do a test so you know your baseline now and see if it's rapidly deteriorating by getting another test done in a while. He can (they tell me) also supply inexpensive ear plugs that'll filter out the worst of the damaging stuff and still let you hear what's going on on stage. Better than the roll up waxy things I used to use from Boots that block the whole canal.

Good luck with sorting it out.

 

[goz211]

BTW - back in the late 80s when I got some work with a few loud metal bands - you know the type "twin Marshall Stack - man, if you want to play with the big boys you have to look like the big boys" - I took a 1K rig with a 3 way crossover - and still had to play from memory at times as the onstage volume was just daft.

I spend half my time playing folk now - just digital piano - often through a single Roland CM-30. "I'm a wild child, won't ya love me .... I want yooooooooo..." long gone.

 

[Iain]

Yeah ... electric chicago blues ... but hey not for much longer in the market now for something new. Maybe only one guitarist this time

 

[Iain]

Anyone tried Behringer B815Neo ? seen some reviews .... good and bad but mainly from DJ's .... would like the view of a keys player.

 

[Iain]

Well ... just an update I am now the proud owner of a Behringer B315D active speaker ... first impressions are good ... not gigged it yet so lets see what happens at the weekend .... hopefully will see the guitarists cringe ... He He .. .

 

[goz211]

Good luck. Post back and let us know how it goes.

 

[goz211]

Iain - did you A/B it for volume against your Behringer combo? The RMS on the Thomann site is listed as 345 watts (550 peak). I know your combo is rated 300 watts - is that an RMS value too?

 

[Iain]

Well ... interesting little trial run with the Behringer .... so heres the set-up .... took Yamaha MO8 plus Roland VK7 and Roland JV1010 module - all through a little Samson Notepad and out into the Behriinger B315D.

Due to space issues I had have the Speaker in normal "standing up" position behind me right next the guitarists Marshall. No ideal but not a lot of space ... anyway ... started well and could hear Piano String type sounds really well and clear with a very full rounded sound ... however, really struggled to get volume levels set for the Clone Wheel (Vk7) ... after much mucking about got something sorted ... as the night progressed so did the volume ..... but unlike my previous set-up I had loads of power available and really felt happy that I wasn't about the blow anything up!!!

So , so far so good with the behringer .... it is really a brill price .. .I paid 250GBP from Thomanns ...so bearing that in mind I think you can't get much better. The quality is great, plenty power and massive bass response compared to K3000FX .. wouldn't mind another to have stereo ... but that can wait ... Piano sounds clear ... previously when the volume lifted the piano started to sound a bit clunky!! Would like to place the speaker in it's monitor postion as I would have been able to hear better what I was playing at all times ... but hey ho ... happy bunny ... hope it proves to be reliable.

 

[Iain]

Iain - did you A/B it for volume against your Behringer combo? The RMS on the Thomann site is listed as 345 watts (550 peak). I know your combo is rated 300 watts - is that an RMS value too?

Sorry didnt see this comment - K3000FX - I couldn't find anything about the RMS of the K3000FX I know when I recently got a replcement woofer that the unit taken out was only 15WATTS according to the repair guy ..... It really is like night and day the difference in volume .... comparison ... 1/4 volume on the B315D compares with 3/4 on K3000FX.

 

[goz211]

Sounds like a good buy.

Googled the K3000FX and on one thread someone claimed the 300watts was calculated from 4 x discrete 75 watt for each channel. It's the interweb though - may be nonsense.

 

[dspellman]

The QSC K series are good stuff, but expensive. In a band situation, you almost need two of these things, and if you're not running anything through the PA, you'll likely want one of the subs under each one (despite their specs, they're a bit thin on the bottom end). That's a $4K (US) investment.

If you're inclined to go this general route, I'd ignore the Mackies and go with Carvin LM12As (there are also LM15As). Each speaker mounts on a stand (as do the QSCs) or can be used as a floor monitor. They only weigh 27 lbs each, have been drop tested at over 8' (don't do that with a K12) and have a 350W RMS (700W peak) amp built in, divided 50W to the treble horn and 300 to the 12". A *pair* of the things with a pair of 50' cables will run you $739. http://www.carvinguitars.com/lm/ Subs are available.

I've taken another tack. I built a pair of 2x12 stereo cabinets (yeah, each cabinet is stereo/mono capable) ported and sized for 400W (each) Eminence Delta ProA speakers, each cabinet with a pair of 400W (each) 1165 piezo tweeters. The porting will take these speakers down to about 52Hz, the tweeters up to 18Khz. I've powered the pair of them with a Carvin rackmount DCM 1540L solid state stereo power amp (740W/740W at 4 ohms or it can be bridged for mono operation). One on each side the drummer up on cases that bring the cabinet up to between 4' and 6'. The whole rig will fit in the back seat of a Honda Civic (4-door), with room for keyboards in the passenger seat and the girlfriend in the trunk.

I paid a guy who makes kitchen cabinets $125 each to build these in raw birch plywood, with finger joined corners and all. The Delta Pros are around $125 each, the tweeters about $40 each. Add in some money for casters (removable), handles and other hardware. The prototype was done with an outdoor rug covering (below), but mine were covered with spray-on pickup truck bed liner, which is so much tougher than tolex that it's nearly structural.

I've tested them with Studio Six Audiotools' iPad app, and I have 1/3 octave EQ in the rack. They're not flat, exactly, but they're not bad at all. Obviously everything's going to be different at gig time from what it was at sound check with an empty room, so you may want to compensate.

But this setup will blow the doors off any 100W Marshall stack with ease, and if you have the boxes up where folks in the band can hear them, you'll be amazed how quickly everyone decides that stage volume can be reduced by running things through a good PA.