Instrument Definitions and/or MIDI Patch Libraries?

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Hey folks. I'm really getting into 'composing' new tunes using a MIDI editor, and while I've had some success I'm at a loss as to how to get the correct instrument libraries for my Korg M1 and Yamaha MM6 keyboards.

Anyone have any ideas here?

TIA...
 

happyrat1

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It depends on what sequencer software you are using. Both Korg and Yamaha are well supported by Cakewalk software.

Sometimes you have to rely on community support or write your own definitions file. Sometimes you can find conversion utilities.

Again, what DAW/sequencer software are you running?
 
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Right now I'm using Anvil Studio w/ the 'ProMix' add-on. I have Cubase Artist 7 on the way. I have the information (I think), and if I new the format I could probably do the conversion myself. Anvil wants either a .INS or a .MLB file, and I have the Cubase file for the MM6, which has the data in it; but isn't recognized (even with the file extension changed) the data.

I have a support request in to Anvil for both keyboards. They may have it covered. I was just hoping for a 'generic' sort of capability.
 

happyrat1

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.INS files are Cakewalk files.

For the complete list of available Cakewalk INS files which ship with current Cakewalk products you can download them from here:

http://www.cakewalk.com/support/dl.aspx?DLID=1848

and here:

http://www.cakewalk.com/support/dl.aspx?DLID=1849

http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013272

And it's not always necessary to have an exact match for your model of keyboard. Often it's good enough to simply have an INS file for a close relative.

The patch list for the Korg x50 may be a close enough match to your M1 to work well enough. The X50 list works pretty well for my TR76 which is Triton Based.

Manufacturers tend to stick to the same basic patch layout whenever they design a newer keyboard.
 

happyrat1

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You're welcome. Also the basic Yamaha Motif patches should be close enough to work with your MM6.
 
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Well dang...

Can anyone here tell me:

a) Why these instrument-specific files (whether .ins or .mlb) are different for each DAW program?

and

b) Why the files are not readily available somewhere?

This seems a piss-poor way to cultivate productivity (IMHO, of course)

;)
 

happyrat1

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To answer your question I'll put to you another question.

Why is a Microsoft Word File not compatible with a Wordperfect File and not compatible with an OpenOffice File?

Different DAWs are different softwares created by different individuals and different programmers. Often there are patent and trademark and copyright issues attached to each data file format, so rather than face an army of lawyers and pay outrageous licensing fees, each company will simply design and copyright its own file format.

This should be of no great surprise to anyone who has been around computers and has not been living under a rock for any extended period during the past 30 years.

Industry standards occasionally come to pass when huge corporations agree to a consensus on hardware devices or when a single corporation has obliterated all competition in a particular product line and by attrition of all other contenders simply do not possess enough market share to remain relevant.

MIDI hardware and MIDI language was the result of a consensus by a consortium.

Microsoft windows became a standard by pretty much obliterating all competition to date.

All the rest of the software world are still fighting it out.

Perhaps if Micro$oft got into the DAW writing business there would suddenly be a clear winner and there would be a de facto standard.

As it now stands, however, there are many, many, many, many different but equal contenders out there for your software dollar and market forces have not as yet reached any final decision.

Just be thankful that the Cakewalk INS format was one of the first such files to be created and has survived pretty much unchanged for over 20 years and that Cakewalk does not exercise any real muscle when it comes to enforcing its copyrights in this area and allows other programmers to create conversion scripts and utilities without taking some broke assed programmer to court for creating an import or conversion utility.

Actually if I had to say so, the Cakewalk INS file is pretty much as close to a standard for MIDI Instrument Definitions as exists today. If you're going to blame anyone, blame all the other companies who insist on doing it their own way simply to monopolize their own market share for their products.

Gary
 
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Gary, before this gets out of hand just let me say I've been an engineer for 30+ years, using computers, writing code for a wide variety of purposes including controlling sophisticated hardware. The instruments we're talking about are not as 'individual' as you're suggesting they might be; but that's neither here nor there.Compatibility of word processor file formats really isn't all that relevant IMHO.

The real point of my question is: why is there not repository for these files that allows 'us' to access them for the instruments we choose and the DAW software we bought and paid for? I've just purchased Cubase Artist 7, only to find that it only includes 'support' (in the form of instrument definitions) for Yamaha Motif keyboards. Nonsense.

Yes, I can get examples of these files and use my own editor to create something that works; but why do I find this necessary?
 

happyrat1

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Word processor file formats are entirely relevant to this discussion. If you've been a working engineer for the past thirty years then you should know better than most that each company supports its own product and nobody else's.

Steinberg was bought out by Yamaha.

Cakewalk was bought out by Roland.

They each choose to "officially support" their own products and very little else.

You and I both know that GM doesn't make parts for Ford vehicles and Ford doesn't make parts for Toyotas. That's the way the game is played in the free market system. A deranged software patent system exists today solely for the purpose of keeping large corporations at each others' throats in court and each corporation will litigate til the end of time to protect their intellectual property rights in this system.

Point of fact is that Cakewalk generously published the filespec of the INS file on the internet with an open invitation to the user community to write their own INS files and distribute them freely in any way they see fit.

Since it's an open ended specification it has amazingly withstood the test of time and many many people have contributed these files over the years and some have even ended up bundled in the latest cakewalk products.

However I will now cite two examples in which I have been actively involved in the past year that demonstrates exactly how willing some companies are to part with their "trade secrets."

First off, in April, 2012 I purchased a Casio XW-P1 synth and received one of the very first units to ship in Canada.

I actively petitioned on every relevant casio keyboard listserv and review forum first, looking for, and then convincing mike Martin of Casio of the value of writing such a file for the community. It took at least three months from start to finish, but by August of last year the task was completed successfully and the file is now available for download on Casio's official XW Blog Site as well as numerous other sites where I saw fit to spread it as far as I possibly could. If you google XW-P1 Cakewalk INS file, you will find dozens of solid hits and leads on where to download it.

Now let's fast forward to December 2012, when I purchased an M-Audio Venom at a heavily discounted price, mainly because it was discontinued last September and Avid sold off M-Audio to Akai I believe.

M-Audio still maintains a community support board on it's website and still ostensibly supports its products both by phone as well as on the web and via email.

Now this time I didn't even petition them to create the file. I was, and still am in the process of writing a working INS file for the Venom. I have already done most of the heavy lifting and copied all the patch names and numbers from the MIDI documentation.

What was missing from the patch list was the Bank Select Method and the actual numerical values for each bank. I managed to figure out that Bank Select Method is Controller Zero from the MIDI specs however, Bn is simply not documented anywhere.

Now you'd think this would be a simple thing to find out from M-Audio would you not? No such luck buddy. I posted no fewer than three queries on the community board. The only one which was answered was my initial query as to whether or not such a file already existed and the response was a resounding "Not at this time."

Then when I followed up with a second and third enquiry specifically asking for the Bank Numbers my questions were utterly ignored. My third and final enquiry I bumped 9 times replying to my own message, each time growing more and more frustrated and angry with each passing day until two weeks passed, they deleted my thread, and never bothered answering the actual question.

Now I've found the official support channels and have made both telephone and email enquiries again asking for this simple listing of 8 lousy 1 byte numbers. I shall hold my tongue for another week and see IF and when they ever get back to me on this but I swear as God is my witness I shall never purchase nor recommend another M-Audio product to anyone again so long as I live.

So, indirectly my answer to you is a question of sorts. Why do some people swear by Fords and others by GM cars and others by Toyotas? It's not only the quality of the product, but also the quality of the customer service when the excrement impacts the turbine blades.

Personally I've never been a big fan of Roland keyboards, but they've somehow managed to do all the right things when it came to buying up and operating Cakewalk Software. The mere fact that their INS file remains the closest thing to a standard out there and that their software which I purchased over a decade ago is still functional under Wine Emulation in Linux as well as the updated Music Creator 5 which I purchased last year is also running under Wine and still uses the same INS file is why I have no reservations about recommending it as my DAW of choice.

I've tried other DAWs both running under Linux as well as Windows but somehow when they have inevitably failed me for one reason or another I continue to stick with the Cakewalk. It may not have as many bells and whistles as some of the newer ones out there, but it simply never lets me down.
 

happyrat1

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Congrats... Enjoy....

I know it gives me endless hours of pleasure when I start sequencing on my rig...

Gary :)
 
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A quick update. While the MM6 'worked' with the .INS file I got from Creston Hall's site, it only 'worked' as a GM instrument in Cakewalk. I did put together a file for the Korg M1 which works; but it's a much simpler instrument than the MM6. So... I got .MLB's from Anvil Studio which work perfectly in their program, and I'm getting back to work using Anvil Studio as my editor for the MIDI sequences.

Enjoying being back on the music horse.... ;)
 

happyrat1

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Hi Ron,

Firstly, you have to use the "Define Instruments" setting from the options menu in order to activate an INS file and select a keyboard model in Cakewalk products.

http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2007013272#Import

Secondly, the Yamaha MM6 is Motif Based so using a Motif Definitions file should work pretty well. I've attached the standard Yamaha.ins file to this message as well in case it works. I can't find any specific references to the Motif in it but from what I could see Yamaha uses a pretty standard patchname list throughout its product line.

Thirdly from what I can tell, the Korg M1 Factory Default settings are listed in the standard Korg.ins file distributed with current versions of Cakewalk along with a dozen other korg Keyboard Models. I've attached it here in case you can't find it.

And Lastly, as long as you've found something that works for you I'm happy for you.

If you feel like experimenting more with Cakewalk try the files I've attached to this message.

Gary
 

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Thanks Gary, I do know how to correctly 'activate' a particular synth in Cakewalk. No issues with that part of it. I did try that same Korg .INS file, and while it allowed me to import the patches for the M1, it wasn't quite right so I edited my own which is working well. I also found an INS specifically for the MM6, and it works okay; but if I select any bank other than the default (Bank 'A') it will forget what has been selected if I close the project and reopen. I may give the file you provided a shot if/when I get back to Cakewalk.

For now I'm good. Thanks again lad. ;)
 

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