Keyboard Selection (what will serve the needs?)

[Adam D'Agosto]

Hello all,
This type of question is repeated hundreds of times over and I've read many posts with a lot of good information. But, I'm going to add one more and try to include all the pertinent information in this post to help you guide me the best. As a result, this post will be long as I try to get all your immediate questions answered so we don't spend 7 posts back and forth refining my question/needs.

I'm primarily looking for a keyboard that will serve the needs of my son. He's in a 4 piece band. He sings about half the set list and plays rhythm guitar (a little lead too). The band would like to added option of a keyboard to spice things up.

The other possible user is my wife and myself, but for us it would be more of a learning tool and to make things a little more fun. We have a Kawai acoustic piano. It sounds wonderful.

So...for my son. He's the freaken talented one in the family. He writes his own stuff and seems to come up with riffs out of thin air as I cycle through different sounds on keyboards at the store. So, tones directly inspire him to be creative. It's kinda weird how it happens in real time. But anyway, I can see this "tool" being used in a way that has him composing music from the pure electronic genera, to alternative rock songs for his band to is own personal inspiration of music that probably will not be played out live. He's not into the singer/song writer thing for live purposes, even though he in fact IS a singer/songwriter. He just likes to be up there with the band. His skill on the keys is somewhat intermediate. He learns faster than any person I know on musical instruments. Like I said, it's a talent. He's a HS sophomore. I'm not concerned at all about it not getting used for many years to come.

So this keyboard would need to be/have:
1. Gig ready and well suited for live applications
2. High quality piano sounds
3. Good quality synth sounds (organ, stings, other...)
4. 61 keys is all that is really needed. I think this size is probably the best comprise.
5. Song writing aid and music production ready
6. Have drum parts available.
7. Would be nice if it had and XLR mic input
8. No real need for internal speakers (I have a PA speaker for him to use)
9. No preference on brand (Korg, Roland and Yamaha are the big three for me)
10. Cost....for now, under $1,000

I believe I am describing a "workstation". There are some Arranger qualities I have described as well, but this is where my confusion lies. I do not believe I am describing a "Synthesizer" yet, Roland markets some keyboards that seem to fit the needs above as a Synthesizer and this furthers my confusion.

I've looked at these units and they all seem like the right pick, but they can't all be....That's why I need help.
In no particular order:

Korg KROSS 61 - Key Mobile Workstation
Roland JUNO-DS61
Yamaha MX61
Roland V-Combo VR-09 61-key Stage Performance Keyboard
Roland FA-06 61-key Music Workstation

I have NO PROBLEM going with an older used unit. I'd actually like that, but my concern is that as the unit gets older, the relevancy of the electric sounds used today will be somewhat lost. So, older is ok and I'd love your suggestions, but within reason.

Thank you SO MUCH in advance for your time in directing me.

 

[happyrat1]

A few more suggestions just to make your life more difficult.

Used Casio XW-P1 (I own one)

Used Korg X50 (I own one)

Casio Privia PX-350 or PX-360 or PX-5S. (88 Keys. Loads of fun)

All pretty much fit your laundry list of needs.

Gary

 

[Adam D'Agosto]

Thanks Gary.
The X50 looks good to me. Does it have a good library of electric synth sounds. I believe this was released in 2006.

As for the Casio keys...I had them as a kid. I know they were just toys back then, but I can't get that out of my head.

Thank you for the tip.

 

[happyrat1]

The X50 has about 400 or 500 PCM tones and another 150 or so Combis which are Korgspeak for Setups or Registrations.

Very nice sounding instrument based on the original Triton Soundset with some improvements along the way.

As for the Casios. Don't kid yourself. 5 or 6 years ago Casio re-entered the professional market in a big way and their instruments boast some of the best key actions and piano voices in the industry these days.

As for the XW-P1 it has no built in cheezy speakers and has very credible organ and synth sounds as well as a feature called Hex Layer which allows you to layer up to 6 voices at once. The PCM sounds are a bit cheezy but even they can be tweaked to acceptable sounds.

As for "toy like," to be honest the Korg feels more like a toy than the Casio in my studio. While they're both made entirely of plastic, the XW-P1 is a far superior build quality with a far better keybed. In reality I don't use the keyboard of the X50 all that much since I prefer to use my Kurzweil as my main controller and my Casio as my secondary controller and the rest of my gear as modules.

All I'm saying is don't sell Casios short. Their stage pianos boast some of the lightest weights and best engineered build quality in the industry nowadays.

Gary

 

[Adam D'Agosto]

I know you're right about Casio....And I will look. In fact I've been reading about all three of your recommendations. My only concern is they are kinda old-ish. Is that not a problem? Maybe that's the best way to stay under 1K?

I will not sell short!

 

[happyrat1]

I listed the older models because you specified keeping it under a thou and these offer some of the best bang for the buck on today's used market.

A used X50 or used XW-P1 can be had for well under $500 as well as some of the older Juno models from Roland and saving money is always good.

Also as far as the 88 Key models I mentioned, the fact that they've been around for the past 4 or 5 years means they can also be had used for well under a thou and since these models are still currently available new they are more than adequate for performances in a current band.

5 or 6 years old is usually the sweet spot for used gear.

Not so old that it's suffering bit rot in the ROMS and bulging caps in the power supply but if well kept and taken care of, available for about half of what they sold for new and suitable for years of further productive use.

Remember, 5 years ago, these boards were listed among the latest and greatest.

Gary

 

[Adam D'Agosto]

I agree that 5 to 6 years old is a sweet spot for used gear and I like your thinking. But isn't the Kork X50 way older than 5 years? I think is like 10 years old.

Either way, according the the YouTube videos, it sounds great.

 

[happyrat1]

I think the X50 was finally discontinued about 5 or 6 years ago actually.

Don't forget, when most keyboards are introduced at NAMM they take at least 6 months to a year to start shipping. Then if they're any good they continue to ship for another 3 or 4 years.

I picked mine up about two years ago and it's still working perfectly well.

But like I said, the XW-P1 has superior build quality and keyboard action and both have an impressive palette of sounds.

Now that I think of it, I think the X50 has 512 programs and 380 combis while the Casio has 100 preset solo synths, 100 hex layers, and 100 full drawbar organs, each with another 100 User slots available and yet another 380 or so PCM and GM sounds. Also 16 beat step sequencer with 100 presets and 100 user slots and I think another 100 arpeggiators and a built in phrase sequencer as well.

Also the Casio is incredibly well supported over at http://casiomusicforums.com with hundreds if not thousands of user patches available for free download.

Well supported patch libraries are yet another good reason for buying an older machine.

The latest and greatest usually ships with lousy support and at least one or two firmware upgrades to fix the bugs.

Gary

 

[Fred Coulter]

6. Have drum parts available.

This needs a little more explanation. Do you mean has the sounds, which means that your son will need to create drum parts from scratch, or do you mean already has programmed drum parts (and the ability to create / modify new ones)? If you mean the latter, what you're describing is an arranger, a type of keyboard that gets no respect in the United States. If the former, then you'll need to have some sort of sequencer, either within your computer and only available with your computer, or onboard.

 

[Fred Coulter]

5 or 6 years old is usually the sweet spot for used gear.

I just looked up my latest keyboard, the Korg Kronos. I've got the 88 key version of the Kronos 2, which is a very minor upgrade to the Kronos X, which is a very minor upgrade to the original Kronos. (How minor? Basically, you can upgrade an original Kronos all the way to the current level for very little money. The only thing you give up is that the original Kronos had a hard drive, and the new ones have SSDs. (Actually, I'm not sure about the hard drive. Perhaps the SSDs got bigger.)

The Kronos is still selling strong. I doubt it will disappear from the market very soon. And when was it introduced? All the way back in 2011. So it's life is five years and counting.

(End off topic discussion.)

 

[Adam D'Agosto]

Fred, you're opening up the can of worms!!!
Good question....but first...

What do you guys think of the Korg SP60 as a more modern version of the Korg X50 that Gary suggested? The SP60 seems a little more oriented to live performance and seems a bit more robust. Both seem to have great sounds. Both are close to the same price point too.

Back to your question...I really think the later of the two. I don't see him spending the time on building drum parts. He does not have the patience for it. Having stock drum tracks would be better. As I mentioned in my initial post, I thought I was describing a workstation, but one that has arranger-type qualities.

That being said, if you have some suggestions, please pass them on!!

 

[happyrat1]

If he needs decent accompaniment the X50 kinda sucks in that regard and it's a bitch to program.

The XW-P1 has the phrase and step sequencers with 100 canned rhythms and 100 user slots.

Best thing of all though, is to pick up a used Alesis SR-16 or SR-18 or Boss DR-880 and any of a dozen other rhythm boxes that sold in the last decade. Or pick up any of the dozens of other modern groove boxes which sell nowadays like the Korg Electribes. Depends on which styles he will be playing mostly.

Or with any MIDI keyboard it's simple enough to hook up to a computer and find hundreds of rhythm softwares to generate your beats.

And sooner or later he'll end up tired of canned beats and will HAVE to learn how to program his own.

Sometimes "one size fits all" is not the best approach.

Gary

 

[Adam D'Agosto]

Yes I agree with you. I'm not all that concerned about the drum parts. It's a nice to have feature. If it's not there at all, it's not the end of it...

Any thoughts on the Korg PS60 vs the XW-P1? From what I hear the Korg is more all around and the Casio is more "synthy". There seems to be a de-emphasis on the piano. This is the most important voice for him.

 

[happyrat1]

If pianos are a priority then forget about the XW-P1.

The PX-5S and PX-360 and PX-560 all share the top of the line piano voices from Casio.

They also have very credible synth voices including the Hex Layers. The PX-5S, in fact, can layer up to 4 zones of hex voices up to a max of 24 layers. Also a plus on these keyboards is 256 note polyphony. They are outstanding stage pianos with additional synth capability.

The penalty however, is you have to live with the 88 Keyboard size and the cost jumps appreciably.

Gary