Midi not working

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Hi everyone. I've got an old Yamaha ypt210. A small upgrade from the really basic keyboard I had before, just because I wanted midi. I bought an Ebay special wire (I figured it's hardly a complex bit of kit), but now I'm having issues. From the pc I can make the keyboard play sounds properly, but pressing a key on the keyboard will only occasionally show a note on the pc, and the note stays on the screen as if the key is still being pressed. Is this a classic case of buy cheap, buy twice? Will a decent wire sort this, and if so, any recommendations?

Thanks
 
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I think you answered your own question.

And no, another “wire” may not solve the problem, old Yamaha keyboards can be problematic when trying to be MIDI’ed
 
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Well that's what I'm thinking. The fact it's an issue with the keyboard outputting but the input is working makes me think its not the cable
 
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Yamaha have said that the cable I have may not work due to "active sensing" on their keyboards, and to get one of their seemingly discontinued ux16 leads. Thats handy haha. I may have to sell it the keyboard ffs
 

happyrat1

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Yamaha's legendary lousy customer service is the main reason I refuse to buy their products.

Consider a Roland or a Korg for your replacement :)

Gary ;)
 
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The YPT is a £115 keyboard brand new, it is never, ever going to give you a great learning experience.

Do seek out a much superior keyboard if you are really serious about playing.

Spend £500 + or whatever your currency equivalent is
 
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I upgrade as I need to. I started with a f50 I think it was called. Was great for the learning app I use. I upgraded to get midi. The keyboard is fine other than that not working. Next will be WORKING MIDI and maybe touch sensitive keys too. I'm not looking to spend £500 yet
 

happyrat1

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Check the used market for a used Casio PX-3XX series.

Some should be in your price range and all of them have class compliant working MIDI ports as well as DIN ports.

These are solid little workstations to start building a home studio.

That is, of course, if you're interested to start recording some day.

Gary ;)
 

happyrat1

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If the PX line is too pricey, Casio also used to make a WK line that also had all of these features on the higher end models.

Also avoid the new CTX series. Casio has stopped putting DIN MIDI ports on their latest gear.

Gary ;)
 

SeaGtGruff

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"Active Sensing" is definitely a MIDI thing, which many MIDI devices use to detect that there's an active or live MIDI connection. If the keyboard responds to incoming MIDI messages but doesn't seem to be sending MIDI messages, the app and/or driver must not be sending back the required signals in response to the keyboard's signals, making the keyboard think that the other device isn't ready or available to receive the keyboard's MIDI data yet. It sounds like the Yamaha USB-MIDI driver must be designed to send back the proper signals, whereas the generic USB-MIDI interface you're using isn't doing that.

Unfortunately, you can't install Yamaha's USB-MIDI driver unless you're using Yamaha's USB-MIDI interface, which is why they suggested getting the UX16. If you can't find a UX16, an equivalent USB-MIDI interface from Roland or Korg might work-- but if you need to install a driver for it, as sounds likely if the driver is handling all of the Active Sensing messages, then you'd need to install either Roland's driver (if using Roland's interface) or Korg's driver (if using Korg's interface).

There's actually nothing "wrong" or "bad" with the answer you got from Yamaha's Customer Support. In fact, now that I think about it, this issue with Active Sensing might be one of the reasons why so many people end up having trouble with those inexpensive generic USB-MIDI interfaces. Those inexpensive interfaces almost never have any drivers available for them, so if the driver needs to handle the Active Sensing messages on behalf of software that doesn't handle them itself then you're pretty much at an impasse due to the fact that the company hasn't created a driver to go with their interface.

However, if you're expecting that you'll eventually want a touch-sensitive (i.e., "velocity-sensitive") keyboard, then that old YPT-210 isn't going to cut it, anyway, so you'd be best off shopping around for a better keyboard.
 
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Yamaha have said that the cable I have may not work due to "active sensing" on their keyboards, and to get one of their seemingly discontinued ux16 leads. Thats handy haha. I may have to sell it the keyboard ffs
What software are you running on the computer? Check to see if maybe it has an option to filter out active sensing.
 
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That's good info, thanks Gary. I dont know if I'd ever record, but I do have a bit musical streak and a love for instruments. I really like soul/RnB at the moment (Otis stacks is a fave at the moment), so being able to play music of that genre would be great. Then I also like some classical pieces. canon in D is on the agenda at some point. I'm working my way through SimplyPiano and am getting better every day. My wife is literally right this second in the earlier stages of labour, so I'll need to make the effort to still get in my hour or 2 practice every day once the baby is here if possible haha

SeaGtGruff, I'll look into that. It would be great if this keyboard would work but I think I have accepted my fate. Maybe an early upgrade is the best option.

Scott, The software I want to use is piano booster. I've already been on their forum and without the "note off" signal being sent by the keyboard (as proven in a diagnostics program I downloaded) itll never work. It think SeaGtGruff's explanation makes perfect sense. The keyboard doesnt receive its return signal so doesnt send the note off signal or or any other notes until I presume it times out, which is why it works again after 5 seconds or so. Technology, gotta love it!
 

happyrat1

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Yamaha strikes again with their cockamamie non standard interfaces and drivers.

If it ain't class compliant I won't buy it.

Gary ;)
 
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I honestly thought that is exactly what MIDI was for. Standardizing the interface, so that is all I looked for in that regards. Knobheads haha.
 
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Yamaha strikes again with their cockamamie non standard interfaces and drivers.

If it ain't class compliant I won't buy it.
I honestly thought that is exactly what MIDI was for. Standardizing the interface, so that is all I looked for in that regards. Knobheads haha.
The ypt210 has no USB jack, just standard MIDI jacks. There's no such thing as class compliance for that, and MIDI is indeed very much standardized... but there are small differences in the way companies have implemented it over the years, including whether or not they choose to include active sensing, which is permitted (but not required) within the standard MIDI spec.

I don't know exactly what "special wire" the OP has, but a basic class compliant USB-to-MIDI interface should work. The issue may be, as I alluded to, that the software in question doesn't handle active sensing; and maybe the custom driver Yamaha supplies with their own interface provides an option for filtering it out...?
 
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Right, I'm giving up on this keyboard. I think its a lost cause for what I want. I've seen a casio wk1300 in my price range. Touch sensitive keys. 16 channel midi. Is that a good step up?

Thanks
 

happyrat1

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That's a pretty basic model of Casio. Make certain it has DIN MIDI ports before you pick it up.

I'd recommend at least a WK-6600 or 6X00 series if you want a decent workstation.

Any Casio newer than about 15 years old will have class compliant USB MIDI though.

Gary ;)
 

happyrat1

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In a pinch a WK-3300 might work well enough.

BTW, are you looking at new units or used ones?

With the pandemic lots of people picked up or upgraded Casio gear and have some nice older models to sell.

I'd say the minimum you should look at in the WK series is 3X00 and up.

Gary ;)
 
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I'm looking for 2nd hand. I'm really enjoying playing and can see me sticking at it, but for now I want to keep the costs down. I'm not sure if this forum is mainly UK or US? Maybe I'll check the classifieds on here.
 
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Any Casio newer than about 15 years old will have class compliant USB MIDI though.
You may have to look slightly more recently. In the Privia line, anyway, their first class compliant model didn't come out until 11 years ago. Though the older models still should work fine using their standard 5-pin MIDI ports. But for whatever you look at, maybe it's worth downloading the manuals and looking at the MIDI Implementation Chart to see whether or not a given board sends Active Sensing, if that is indeed the cause of the problem.
 

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