Newbie question about sound module software

[Tomac]

Hello,

I have recently been getting involved in the music at our church. I play piano, learnt on an acoustic piano, and fairly new to electronic instruments so please forgive me if I use the wrong terminology.

The church has a Yahama CLP130 digital piano. At first I played it like an acoustic (just used the default piano sound) which was OK. But having experimented with other features I am finding it a bit limited, specifically:

• Non-piano sounds are not very good. (I mainly use string / string pad and church organ sounds.)
• No ability to "save" a configuration for a particular song and come back to it
• User interface is unintuitive

Replacing the piano isn't an option at the moment. However the piano has a MIDI out and an audio line in (to amplify another source through it's own speakers.) So I was wondering as to the possibility of using my Macbook pro or iPad as a sound source that I could "play" through the piano. From what I've seen online I think this is possible but have got a bit lost in the terminology and choice. My ideal feature list would be:

1. Good piano, string / string pad and church organ sounds
2. Ability to "layer" multiple sounds together (eg piano+strings) and vary the volume balance between the two
3. Ability to split the keyboard (different sounds at either end of keyboard). Must be able to vary the volume balance between the two sounds, and also transpose each sound up/down octave independently.

2 and 3 the piano can in theory already do, but the user interface is so unintutive I am never quite sure I've set it up right, and it can be more hassle than it's worth. So I guess what I would really like to be able to do, would be to just set the piano onto MIDI output only, and control everything from the laptop or iPad.

I've tried software such as Hauptwerk for organ sounds which is fantastic, but a bit overkill for my needs. Ideally I would like to recreate the kinds of features on a more modern digital/stage piano, such as my Kawai MP4 I have at home.

I am also not sure whether it would be best to go with the laptop or the iPad. The laptop has a lot more processing power and memory, equally I think the iPad would be more practical as I could just control it from the touchscreen and not have to start mapping controls onto the buttons on the piano.

I would be really grateful for any suggestions. I am not looking to spend more than GBP £100 ideally.

Thank you for any advice.

 

[happyrat1]

I was all set to recommend picking up a rack mount MIDI sound module used from craigslist or ebay...

Until...

I saw your budget

For less than $150 USD you won't find any rack modules that are less than 15 years old. Maybe an ancient Korg TR Rack.

As for iPad vs Macbook? 6 of one half dozen of the other.

The main problem with soft synths is that they tend to crash at the most inopportune moments. And with that budget you won't be buying any high end software either.

You may as well stick with free software instead.

Do a google search on "Free VSTi plugins" and you'll come up with a load of candidates to choose from and test on your own.

Lots of crapware out there but also a few diamonds in the rough.

You could also take a look at soundfont MIDI engines and various SF2 files. Some of those are comparable to instruments costing thousands.

iPads are compact and easy to work with, but lack the hardware to manage multiple large VSTis simultaeously. Macbooks are more awkward to control in a live setting but can run a lot more programs simultaneously. If you are talking about a low end PC or ancient Mac however, you will again run up against latency problems as well as periodic crashes.

If you could swing 300 UK Pounds you could start considering picking up a used Yamaha Motif or Korg Triton Rack and your problems would be solved.

That's just my $0.02

Gary

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Using the MacBook will definitely give you more processing power. Note that there are iPad apps which can be used as "control surfaces" to remotely control a DAW, so that lets you have the best of both worlds-- you can use a laptop to run the DAW and the VSTs, yet still use an iPad for its touch screen.

There are a few free DAWs you could use, allowing you to put your budget toward some quality VST instruments or sample collections. There are free VST instruments, soft synths, and samples galore on the web, but you generally have to pay if you want something that sounds good and doesn't crash every so often. A few of the free DAWs available are PreSonus Studio One 3 Prime, Tracktion T4, Sony ACID Xpress 7.0, and Zynewave Podium Free-- those are all free editions of commercial DAWs.

 

[Tomac]

Many thanks to you both for your replies, this has given me some pointers. I think part of the problem was I didn't know the right jargon to put into Google!

I realise it is a very limited budget, and if it turns out there isn't a good solution at this price point and I just need to learn to work with the limitations of what we already have, then that's fine. I had noticed that more-or-less everyone else who plays the piano just uses the default piano sound and no other features - I'm now starting to see why... If we had very much more of a budget then we'd probably just replace the whole piano. Plus a portable solution like a laptop/ipad means has the advantage I could practice at home using the same sounds.

One other related question i have (following some more Googling).. Is there any way I can definitively tell if the CLP130 is capable outputting key velocity / touch sensitivity information through the MIDI output. (Ie other than just trying it?) If not, ie, if it just treats the keys as on/off, then I think I'll just forget the whole thing, as that will massively limit its usefulness. The CLP130 has no USB connector so I would have to buy a MIDI to USB adaptor to test this - though suppose I could just return it if it doesn't work and I can't use it.

 

[happyrat1]

It probably has velocity and no aftertouch.

One way to know for sure is to look up the specs on Yamaha.com

Gary

 

[Tomac]

The specs say:

Velocity:
Note ON: 9nH, v=1-127
Note OFF: 9nH, v=0

The "aftertouch" section is blank

I guess that would agree with what you said?

 

[happyrat1]

Velocity means it plays louder the harder and faster you hit the keys, like a real piano.

Aftertouch is usually for effects like vibrato, when you press harder on the keys after the strike.

Most keyboards don't have aftertouch so you really shouldn't worry about it.

Gary

 

[SeaGtGruff]

If the keyboard responds expressively depending on how hard/fast you play the keys (or what Yamaha calls "Touch Response" or "Touch Sensitivity"), then it will output note velocities over the MIDI connection-- unless you turn the Touch Response "Off," in which case the keyboard will play all of the notes at the same volume no matter how hard or soft you play them.

 

[happyrat1]

Actually if you're stuck using freebie software, take a look at a soundfont program like Fluidsynth and Qsynth.

Not sure if they're available for Mac but I use them all the time with Linux and there are thousands of amazingly sampled soundfonts out there on the web that you can simply plug in and you're off to the races.

Some of the larger soundfonts sound better than my $3000 Kurzweil.

Gary

 

[Tomac]

Update (and a follow up question ):

I eventually decided to use the iPad to begin with, as it's a bit more portable and easy to set up. However the problem I am now finding is that the output level from it is not loud enough. I am taking the output from the headphone jack into the piano's line input 6.25mm jacks, with the iPad volume at the maximum.

This is not a problem using the piano's built in sounds. I am wondering if possibly the iPad is outputting a weaker signal than the piano is expecting. Does this sound plausible? Is there anything I can do about this, such as some kind of pre-amp between the iPad output and piano input? Or would it helpin using an audio interface with the iPad rather than outputting from the headphone jack?

The piano's output is fed into a mixing desk and into a PA system, so it can potentially be further boosted there, but ideally I don't want the mixing desk operators to have to worry about changing my levels depending on what sound source I'm planning to use.

Many thanks once again.

Tom

 

[CowboyNQ]

G'day Tom,

I use an iPad live and find I have more than enough volume to play with. However I don't go via my keyboard - I go straight from the iPad headphone jack into a line mixer - TRS to dual TS. My keyboards all run into the same mixer. From the line mixer I go to front of house.

Hope that helps.