Newbie question on the Korg Kross 2 88.

[Ebbetsman]

Hello,
I've been looking at the Kross 2 88 as far as a song building tool with its 16 track recording sequencer. Korg sent me a video link tutorial but to be honest there's so much button pushing on it and it never really showed how to build a song from start to finish. For instance putting down a drum, bass, guitar, piano, flute, etc.
I looked at the Roland Fantom 08 and it looks like from its tutorials way easier to build a song but the price is above my pay grade.
Any thoughts on the Korg would be appreciated.

 

[happyrat1]

My personal tastes lead me away from Korg except as a last resort.

Korg's policies of thousand page manuals written in Aramaic, along with their stupid policy of upselling with every purchase along with the horrific deep menu diving and cheeziness of their switches and power buttons have sent me scurrying off to the arms of the competition.

Roland is a far superior choice for user friendly workstations and You should be looking at an older Juno DS88 or the newest Juno D8.

The built in sequencer is only a looper but really anyone who sequences without a computer these days has rocks in their heads.

 

[happyrat1]

 

[happyrat1]

 

[Biggles]

I had a Kross 2.

It can give you RSI such is the 16 pages of menu’s that you have to go through it setting up a Combi other than a very basic one.

That said the Recording feature is streets ahead of the competition.

 

[anotherscott]

Korg's policies of thousand page manuals written in Aramaic, along with their stupid policy of upselling with every purchase along with the horrific deep menu diving and cheeziness of their switches and power buttons have sent me scurrying off to the arms of the competition.

I'm brand-agnostic (as people may have discerned from other posts of mine). Each brand has its pros and cons, which also vary by model. So to address some of what you mentioned, I don't think Korg upsells anything from Kross (and Roland upsells plenty, also varying by model). Both brands have models with varying amounts of menu diving. There are plenty of bad manuals to go around. As a whole, to generalize some, I have found the manuals that come out of Korg Italy (e.g. their arrangers, the SV2) to be better than Roland's manuals, but Roland's manuals (though not great) better than other Korg manuals.

Roland is a far superior choice for user friendly workstations and You should be looking at an older Juno DS88 or the newest Juno D8.

As you point out afterwards ("the built in sequencer is only a looper"), those models are not really workstations. For a Roland alternative possibly in budget that does have a full linear sequencer, there's the possibility of a used FA-08. The Roland does have a nicer sequencer workflow than the Kross as I understand it (addressing your deep menu diving comment and also Biggles' RSI comment).

For boards of the general type being discussed here, though, for my own needs (which do *not* include sequencing), I did prefer the Juno DS61 to the Kross 61, primarily for interface and at least some implementation of seamless patch changing (and would prefer the Juno D for those reasons as well). I also preferred the Juno DS61 action over the Kross, though that's damning with faint praise. Another knock on the Kross 88 is the physical size. The DS88 wasn't svelte, but the Kross 88 is a boat. Though the DS88 was too heavy. But Kross also had its advantages over the DS... besides the sequencer, the Kross did beat the DS in MIDI functionality, the Kross 61 was wonderfully lightweight, and I did prefer some of its sounds.

Related, and getting back to the OP, I suspect that the Kross will generally sound better in its acoustic instrument emulations, than the FA (which, outside of its SuperNATURAL virtual analog and handful of SuperNATURAL acoustic tones, uses the 25-year old XV-5080 soundset, though you can also download some slightly newer SRX-based expansions for it). But the FA will again win in interface/ergonomics, some amount of seamless sound switching, and does have potential sonic advantages at least in some of those SuperNATURAL categories.

But if he doesn't want to look for something used, and really wants an 88 with the workstation-style sequencer built in in that price range, I don't think there's really an alternative to Kross. As you kind of point out, with so many people moving to DAWs for that stuff, boards aren't emphasizing that kind of sequencing so much. In fact, even the Fantom-08 the OP mentioned doesn't have a full workstation-style linear sequencer.

 

[Ebbetsman]

Thanks so much for your reply. I'm a baby boomer trying to learn a DAW (Reaper) to finally record my songs. But with a 16 track workstation keyboard I thought I could lay down the parts easier.

I'm brand-agnostic (as people may have discerned from other posts of mine). Each brand has its pros and cons, which also vary by model. So to address some of what you mentioned, I don't think Korg upsells anything from Kross (and Roland upsells plenty, also varying by model). Both brands have models with varying amounts of menu diving. There are plenty of bad manuals to go around. As a whole, to generalize some, I have found the manuals that come out of Korg Italy (e.g. their arrangers, the SV2) to be better than Roland's manuals, but Roland's manuals (though not great) better than other Korg manuals.


As you point out afterwards ("the built in sequencer is only a looper"), those models are not really workstations. For a Roland alternative possibly in budget that does have a full linear sequencer, there's the possibility of a used FA-08. The Roland does have a nicer sequencer workflow than the Kross as I understand it (addressing your deep menu diving comment and also Biggles' RSI comment).

For boards of the general type being discussed here, though, for my own needs (which do *not* include sequencing), I did prefer the Juno DS61 to the Kross 61, primarily for interface and at least some implementation of seamless patch changing (and would prefer the Juno D for those reasons as well). I also preferred the Juno DS61 action over the Kross, though that's damning with faint praise. Another knock on the Kross 88 is the physical size. The DS88 wasn't svelte, but the Kross 88 is a boat. Though the DS88 was too heavy. But Kross also had its advantages over the DS... besides the sequencer, the Kross did beat the DS in MIDI functionality, the Kross 61 was wonderfully lightweight, and I did prefer some of its sounds.

Related, and getting back to the OP, I suspect that the Kross will generally sound better in its acoustic instrument emulations, than the FA (which, outside of its SuperNATURAL virtual analog and handful of SuperNATURAL acoustic tones, uses the 25-year old XV-5080 soundset, though you can also download some slightly newer SRX-based expansions for it). But the FA will again win in interface/ergonomics, some amount of seamless sound switching, and does have potential sonic advantages at least in some of those SuperNATURAL categories.

But if he doesn't want to look for something used, and really wants an 88 with the workstation-style sequencer built in in that price range, I don't think there's really an alternative to Kross. As you kind of point out, with so many people moving to DAWs for that stuff, boards aren't emphasizing that kind of sequencing so much. In fact, even the Fantom-08 the OP mentioned doesn't have a full workstation-style linear sequencer.

I'm brand-agnostic (as people may have discerned from other posts of mine). Each brand has its pros and cons, which also vary by model. So to address some of what you mentioned, I don't think Korg upsells anything from Kross (and Roland upsells plenty, also varying by model). Both brands have models with varying amounts of menu diving. There are plenty of bad manuals to go around. As a whole, to generalize some, I have found the manuals that come out of Korg Italy (e.g. their arrangers, the SV2) to be better than Roland's manuals, but Roland's manuals (though not great) better than other Korg manuals.


As you point out afterwards ("the built in sequencer is only a looper"), those models are not really workstations. For a Roland alternative possibly in budget that does have a full linear sequencer, there's the possibility of a used FA-08. The Roland does have a nicer sequencer workflow than the Kross as I understand it (addressing your deep menu diving comment and also Biggles' RSI comment).

For boards of the general type being discussed here, though, for my own needs (which do *not* include sequencing), I did prefer the Juno DS61 to the Kross 61, primarily for interface and at least some implementation of seamless patch changing (and would prefer the Juno D for those reasons as well). I also preferred the Juno DS61 action over the Kross, though that's damning with faint praise. Another knock on the Kross 88 is the physical size. The DS88 wasn't svelte, but the Kross 88 is a boat. Though the DS88 was too heavy. But Kross also had its advantages over the DS... besides the sequencer, the Kross did beat the DS in MIDI functionality, the Kross 61 was wonderfully lightweight, and I did prefer some of its sounds.

Related, and getting back to the OP, I suspect that the Kross will generally sound better in its acoustic instrument emulations, than the FA (which, outside of its SuperNATURAL virtual analog and handful of SuperNATURAL acoustic tones, uses the 25-year old XV-5080 soundset, though you can also download some slightly newer SRX-based expansions for it). But the FA will again win in interface/ergonomics, some amount of seamless sound switching, and does have potential sonic advantages at least in some of those SuperNATURAL categories.

But if he doesn't want to look for something used, and really wants an 88 with the workstation-style sequencer built in in that price range, I don't think there's really an alternative to Kross. As you kind of point out, with so many people moving to DAWs for that stuff, boards aren't emphasizing that kind of sequencing so much. In fact, even the Fantom-08 the OP mentioned doesn't have a full workstation-style linear sequencer.

Thank you for a detailed answer. It seems as far as keeping the price at or below $2000.00 it's a Roland Fantom 08 or Korg Kross 88. I'm learning piano now so I want an 88 key. I'm a strings player(guitar, mandolin, hammer dulcimer, violin) with a bunch of songs I want to record incorporating strings, woodwinds, percussion, organ, different piano sounds, etc. I'll probably never be a great pianist so that's why I didn't jump to the Roland Fantom. I guess I feel I'll not be talented enough to warrant such a beast of a keyboard. But it does so much.

 

[Old No7]

Thanks so much for your reply. I'm a baby boomer trying to learn a DAW (Reaper) to finally record my songs. But with a 16 track workstation keyboard I thought I could lay down the parts easier.

You might consider a Tascam DP-24 SD Portastudio (a 24 track digitial recording deck); which is capable of pro-quality recordings. Many of us boomers over on the Tascam Forums who use computers all day at work don't want to "start up and work on yet 'another computer' at night", and the Tascam allows us to easily record, edit and overdub stereo or mono recordings, with some effects added, and then you can mixdown and master them on the console. It's so much easier to use than a DAW for sure. And many of us -- me included -- also feel much more inspired when we play the keyboards versus "using a mouse" to make our music. I'll often arm the tracks of my Tascam and start jamming away, then hit record when I stumble on something that sounds interesting and I want to capture the moment.

Yes, there are some who "record the moment" on a Tascam, and then record all the tracks on it and then put them into a DAW for mastering; but you don't have to if you want to do it all on the DP-24 (or -32).

There's a ton of great information on these over at Tascamforums.com -- check out all the stickies for Production and Equipment Tips on the " 2488 and DP-24/32 Digital Portastudios" sub-forum there.

Old No7

 

[anotherscott]

It seems as far as keeping the price at or below $2000.00 it's a Roland Fantom 08 or Korg Kross 88.

You might also look at the Yamaha MODX8+. As always, each choice has its own pros and cons. But the MODX pattern sequencer goes up to 256 measures, compared to 64 on the Fantom-0, which allows it to come closer to what can be done on traditional linear sequencers. Also, since you mentioned another use is learning piano, I think the freely downloadable Bosendorfer piano sample for the Yamaha is better sounding than any of the Fantom-0 pianos. There are numerous other differences, in favor of each.

 

[Ebbetsman]

You might consider a Tascam DP-24 SD Portastudio (a 24 track digitial recording deck); which is capable of pro-quality recordings. Many of us boomers over on the Tascam Forums who use computers all day at work don't want to "start up and work on yet 'another computer' at night", and the Tascam allows us to easily record, edit and overdub stereo or mono recordings, with some effects added, and then you can mixdown and master them on the console. It's so much easier to use than a DAW for sure. And many of us -- me included -- also feel much more inspired when we play the keyboards versus "using a mouse" to make our music. I'll often arm the tracks of my Tascam and start jamming away, then hit record when I stumble on something that sounds interesting and I want to capture the moment.

Yes, there are some who "record the moment" on a Tascam, and then record all the tracks on it and then put them into a DAW for mastering; but you don't have to if you want to do it all on the DP-24 (or -32).

There's a ton of great information on these over at Tascamforums.com -- check out all the stickies for Production and Equipment Tips on the " 2488 and DP-24/32 Digital Portastudios" sub-forum there.

Old No7

Thank you for your insight. I have a Tascam DP-02 I've had for several years. It's okay. I've been looking at a Zoom r12. It looks more user friendly. My goal from the git go was to embellish my songs to the point of going into a studio and know what I'd like to do; be prepared. What I don't understand is why music stores don't teach how to use the stuff they sell. I've asked every store I've ever bought something at to teach a class on their equipment. I'd pay for a class. But no one will do it. Anyway. I digressed.

 

[Ebbetsman]

You might also look at the Yamaha MODX8+. As always, each choice has its own pros and cons. But the MODX pattern sequencer goes up to 256 measures, compared to 64 on the Fantom-0, which allows it to come closer to what can be done on traditional linear sequencers. Also, since you mentioned another use is learning piano, I think the freely downloadable Bosendorfer piano sample for the Yamaha is better sounding than any of the Fantom-0 pianos. There are numerous other differences, in favor of each.

That's a good idea too. I did look at this Yamaha. It's the same price as the Fantom 08. I wanted to keep the price lower and realize either I somehow figure out how to pay for either one or look at the Korg Kross which just seems to crazy to learn but is half the price. You'd think with the hundreds of different keyboards out there there's very few workstation keyboards.

 

[Biggles]

Whilst I like Korg’s what I do not like is the keybeds on either keyoards with 61 or 88 keys. But at $1,300 it is way cheaper than a Roland.

By contrast the Roland keybeds are IMO much better, one further advantage is that the Fantom 07 is available so that may reduce the financial impact. At $2,100 showing at Sweetwater for an 07, with the 08 @ $2,370.

 

[anotherscott]

Whilst I like Korg’s what I do not like is the keybeds on either keyoards with 61 or 88 keys. But at $1,300 it is way cheaper than a Roland.

By contrast the Roland keybeds are IMO much better, one further advantage is that the Fantom 07 is available so that may reduce the financial impact. At $2,100 showing at Sweetwater for an 07, with the 08 @ $2,370.

Funny thing about Korg's 88-key NH actions... I have found them inconsistent. Maybe it's a matter of different manufacturing runs (maybe even from different suppliers), but twice I had occasion to play a Kross 88 and a Krome 88 side-by-side... and in each case I thought one felt pretty good and the other didn't... but in one case it was the Kross 88 that felt better, and the other time it was the Krome 88 that felt better!

As for the Roland 88 actions, I didn't care for the one in the Juno DS88 because it felt sluggish on the return. But I haven't played a Fantom-08. But I will say that the Fantom-07 action (which is unweighted) is, IMO, really quite poor for piano playing, which seems to be one of the OP's purposes in buying the board.

 

[Ebbetsman]

Whilst I like Korg’s what I do not like is the keybeds on either keyoards with 61 or 88 keys. But at $1,300 it is way cheaper than a Roland.

By contrast the Roland keybeds are IMO much better, one further advantage is that the Fantom 07 is available so that may reduce the financial impact. At $2,100 showing at Sweetwater for an 07, with the 08 @ $2,370.

How do you navigate the Kross 88 16 track sequencer? It seems daunting to just lay a guitar track down or any sound for that matter.

 

[Biggles]

How do you navigate the Kross 88 16 track sequencer? It seems daunting to just lay a guitar track down or any sound for that matter.

Watch the Video’s that I posted above.

 

[happyrat1]

Anyone have any thoughts on the krome?

 

[Biggles]

Anyone have any thoughts on the krome?

One serves or served Cowboy well.

Korg Forum users did have a whinge about the keybed plus that the second gen Krome was not much of an upgrade.

 

[anotherscott]

I think Krome is discontinued, but the big touchscreen based sequencer looks a lot nicer than the one on Kross, at least. I haven't used either sequencer myself but you could compare the Kross videos Biggles posted with this Krome video...

 

[Ebbetsman]

I think Krome is discontinued, but the big touchscreen based sequencer looks a lot nicer than the one on Kross, at least. I haven't used either sequencer myself but you could compare the Kross videos Biggles posted with this Krome video...

The Krome seems a lot more user friendly than the Kross for maybe $300.00 more.

 

[Ebbetsman]

My personal tastes lead me away from Korg except as a last resort.

Korg's policies of thousand page manuals written in Aramaic, along with their stupid policy of upselling with every purchase along with the horrific deep menu diving and cheeziness of their switches and power buttons have sent me scurrying off to the arms of the competition.

Roland is a far superior choice for user friendly workstations and You should be looking at an older Juno DS88 or the newest Juno D8.

The built in sequencer is only a looper but really anyone who sequences without a computer these days has rocks in their heads.

The problem with me is I'm not savvy enough on the computer so I need something more analog for lack of better terms. Most of you can navigate technology like riding a bike. I still have a Tascam 4 track cassette mini studio recorder for gosh sakes. I look at the Roland Fantom 08 16 track recorder with at least 64 measures of recording and think, "Why didn't they put this on the Juno"? Why short change it? I can afford the Juno! Can't afford the Fantom.