PC3 61 / can't eliminate swell


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Hi,

i have a PC3 61 which i use exclusively for recording primarily string and orchestral compositions.

while i genuinely appreciate the wealth and variety of the available voicings, there is one rather vexing problem i have.


the problem is the seeming impossibility to eliminate the inevitable swell that occurs when any note(s) are held.


typically the mod wheel is assigned to increase/decrease swell, but even with the wheel set for minimum swell and with pressure sensitivity set as close to zero as possible, there is still a level of swell that is unacceptable for virtually all my purposes.

as a result, i have to spend countless hours in editing to try to level the swell at the ends of phrases.


i would be extremely grateful if anyone could provide

(in detail) how this problem could be remedied!


Thanks & best wishes,

g. smith
 
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happyrat1

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Hi,

While I can't be specific about the nuts and bolts of exactly how to do so, what you are talking about is the envelope controls of the particular patch.

You're basically going to have to adjust the attack of the envelope to go instantaneously to full bore and keep it sustained at the desired level and adjust the decay and release as needed.

You'll have to do it for every patch in question.

Gary ;)
 

happyrat1

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Sorry. Yer SOL on a global solution.

Envelopes are specific to each voice/patch/program.

Gary ;)
 
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Sorry. Yer SOL on a global solution.

Envelopes are specific to each voice/patch/program.

Gary ;)
Thanks again Gary!
sure seems like the folks at Kurzweil really want to get everyone
"under the hood".

it would, in my view, be a logical and huge improvement if the
mod wheel, which is assigned to adjust swell in the majority of
the string and orchestral voices, was configured to range from
none to maximum instead of just less to maximum.
...wishful thinking

Thanks again for your consideration!
Best wishes,
g.smith
 
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Does this only happened on strings, or does it happen on patches such as piano?
to be honest, i don't use any of the piano voices, so i don't know.
but i would suspect that the "built in" swell the programmers deemed
appropriate or "realistic" for the strings, would not have been thought
to be appropriate for piano
 

Fred Coulter

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My question related to whether this was a problem with the keyboard in general or with those specific sounds. According to the Guitar Center:

Customizing your sound:
Kurzweil wanted to give users the quickest, easiest possible way to adjust the PC3LE6's sounds to suit individual tastes and needs. In any given program or effects chain, the relevant parameters (the ones that you'd want to tweak and adjust) have been assigned real-time controllers. Just move a controller and hit the Save button; you'll get no menus and no pages with endless parameters but you will get you get one-touch sound customization. Also, Kurzweil understands that flexibility in a keyboard is important when it comes to customizing your sound. Don't want filter frequency control on a knob? Prefer to have it assigned to the modwheel? No problem. The Parameters page on this Kurzweil keyboard allows you to re-assign any controller to any available parameter. You can save your custom sounds to the user bank with over 1000 ID slots.

This makes me think that it may be possible to edit the sounds that are bothering you. I don't own one, so I'm not at all sure how easy that would be. The parameter you'd be looking for is (probably) called attack speed or something similar. Best of luck.
 

happyrat1

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I noticed he posted over at Ksetlist which is a good Kurzweil site, but for the most expert Kurzweil advice he should post over at

http://forums.godlike.com.au/

The Mastering VAST forums are very active and people there have an obscenely detailed intimacy with Kurzweil Effect Chains and VAST programming.

Definitely worthwhile joining up there if you own a PC3 line of keyboard and worth becoming a member as it costs about $6 AUD a year to support the board.

They'll help you for free as well, but there are a few nice perks to membership as well as the pleasure of supporting a good cause.

Gary ;)
 
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I noticed he posted over at Ksetlist which is a good Kurzweil site, but for the most expert Kurzweil advice he should post over at

http://forums.godlike.com.au/

The Mastering VAST forums are very active and people there have an obscenely detailed intimacy with Kurzweil Effect Chains and VAST programming.

Definitely worthwhile joining up there if you own a PC3 line of keyboard and worth becoming a member as it costs about $6 AUD a year to support the board.

They'll help you for free as well, but there are a few nice perks to membership as well as the pleasure of supporting a good cause.

Gary ;)
Thanks for the tip Gary!
i'm afraid that the time, patience and perseverance required to achieve the modifications i'd like to hear exceed my limit.
painstaking as it is to accomplish these corrections in editing, i have, at least, been able to do it.
i would, however, like to indulge in one last fruitless rant regarding this issue.
why would any (original) programmer at kurzweil, assuming she/he had even the most rudimentary understanding of "real" music and the way it sounds, think that when a note or chord (strings especially) is held/sustained that it would be natural for it to swell in volume.
although the swell is sometimes appropriate, far more often it is completely unnatural, and the player should be able to easily defeat it!
 

Fred Coulter

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One of the songs I used to play (using a DX-7) involved a high string sound which slowly increased in volume over the course of several octaves. It worked really well in that song. Other string sounds had a pronounced attack. Different sounds for different purposes.
 

happyrat1

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The fact of the matter is that those particular ADSR parameters resulting in "swell" are generally only applied to certain voices, generally orchestra hits and strings and occasionally woodwinds, and even then only to certain ones such as Strings Espressivo.

Others, where it's not appropriate, such as pizzicato generally don't have a slow attack or rising decay applied.

The truth is that Kurzweil puts a hell of a lot of thought into creating what are considered some of the most musical sounds in musical theater where Kruzweil still has a large and strong presence.

Furthermore Kurzweils are among the most editable and configurable of keyboards out there. In fact, the granularity of how much detail can be edited actually makes them a bit more difficult to learn than other, less versatile units like Yamaha and Korg.

Gary ;)
 
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happyrat1

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PS >>> have you looked into assigning a negative to positive range to your mod wheel to see if you can gain more control over the swell? Kurzweil allows you to assign virtually any conceivable range of parameters to each and every controller on board.

Gary ;)
 

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