Playing to loud

[dcarr23886]

i play in a variety cover band. Some of my mates complain that I play too loud. I use a 1000 watt EV powered speaker which I place on the floor behind me that is pointed to the audience. I have problems heading my self over the drums and other musicians. I wear ear plugs.
I'm looking for some ideas to help.

Thanks

 

[happyrat1]

Get a pair of in ear monitors.

https://cosmomusic.ca/catalogsearch/result/?q=ear+monitors

That's what the pros wear at venues like the Superbowl.

Gary

 

[CowboyNQ]

In-ears would definitely help. I've never used them personally but everyone (and I mean everyone) I meet who has used them wouldn't go back.

Other suggestions which I hope might assist:

• Point your monitor towards you but away from the rest of the band.
  
• If you have to have your monitor at ear-splitting volume to be heard above the rest of the band, you're ALL playing too loud.
  
• With this in mind, get EVERYONE to turn down, and remove your ear plugs.
• Appreciate this doesn't work for drums. Maybe you can stand away from the cymbal wash?

Some ideas anyway, good luck.

 

[Fred Coulter]

Don't use your audience speakers as monitors. Ever. (Ever heard of Pete Townshend?) Instead, use separate monitors (at much lower volume) for yourself and put the audience facing speakers between you and the audience, aimed at the audience.

You can go the in ear route (as discussed earlier) or some sort of hot spot type monitor. A hot spot type monitor is one that sits on a microphone stand right behind your keyboard and it aimed at your head. At close range you can bring the volume down to where you can hear it and it won't overpower the rest of the band, who are busy trying to hear what they play, too. Hot spot monitors can be either powered with an internal amp or unpowered, dependent upon some other amplifier. Here's an example of an unpowered one https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HotSpotVCB, and here's one that can be used as a powered one (https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FreePlay).

You could also go the big ass wedge speaker on the floor route. But that will be further from your head, so the volume will need to be higher, with all the problems that entails.

The idea is to have it close to you so that you can hear it but it doesn't blow away the rest of the band.

(It might not be a bad idea to send the hot spot two feeds: one of your keyboard mix and one of the whole band from the main mixer. That way you can also hear what the band is playing so that you'll play together and in the same key.)

(I've heard that an exception to not using your audience speakers as monitors is the Bose PA system type of PA. But they're not cheap, and probably don't produce enough sound for head bangers.)

 

[CowboyNQ]

(I've heard that an exception to not using your audience speakers as monitors is the Bose PA system type of PA. But they're not cheap, and probably don't produce enough sound for head bangers.)

Fred raises a good point here, I must admit I was labouring under the assumption you guys were using a PA when I made my suggestions.

It might help us to understand your band's set up. Do you play through a PA? If so, who uses it and how is it connected? If not, is this feasible for you guys?

For any band that plays at reasonable volume, playing without a PA is a hard road to hoe for many reasons, but I appreciate that sometimes this is born of necessity rather than choice.

The ideal set up to minimise on-stage noise is: PA front of house, in-ear monitors for the band, drummer playing behind a shield.

If in-ears aren't available, you can minimise on-stage sound by sending everything through the PA for front of house, use guitar and bass amp as monitors only, use your EV as a monitor only. Separate foldback wedge for each band member with their own feed from the desk with other bits and pieces they want to hear. And stay away from those cymbals!

If a PA is not available to you, you'll just have to be very clever about speaker and amp placement and volume levels.

 

[Fred Coulter]

Do you play through a PA? If so, who uses it and how is it connected?

Assuming there's a vocalist, there's got to be some sort of PA. I don't care how well trained a vocalist is, they can't sing above a loud rock band.

They can sing above an orchestra, but that's called opera. And while my daughter is working on it, that's a completely different kettle of fish. Impressive how much louder a rock band is than a symphony orchestra.

Separate foldback wedge for each band member with their own feed from the desk with other bits and pieces they want to hear.

Wedges make sense for most band members because they're standing up and need to dance around. Wedges tend to be louder and cover a wider area. Keyboardists, on the other hand, are surrounded with immovable crap waist to chest high. They can't dance around the stage like the rest of the band. (I'm ignoring drummers; because I can.) Since the sight lines are already blocked for keyboardists, I'd go the hot spot monitor route instead. It'll be a little quieter on stage since the monitors will be closer. Use them for both the monitor mix and your instruments.

If your guitar player plays like Robert Fripp, he can also use hot spots.

Speaking of volume levels, when we were recording Icarus, we weren't thrilled with the lack of drive in the drum parts. So we added Lisa just playing back beat chords cranked all the way on an amp so get that good crunchy sound. To avoid destroying her ears, we put the amp in the recording studio all miked up, while she sat in the engineer's room with the electric guitar cord running underneath two closed soundproof doors. Hey, it was the 80's. We used what we had.

 

[CowboyNQ]

Fred,

Let's not have a spurious side conversation between you and me. I'm asking questions (of the OP) for a particular reason, to learn more and assist with ideas if I can.

That's my whole reason for being on this forum, helping people and getting help. The rest is colour and movement as far as I'm concerned.

If you genuinely are interested in learning about effective on-stage monitoring solutions for live bands, send me a PM and we can discuss it there without derailing the thread.

Thanks.

Paul

 

[Rayblewit]

Personally I have never been on stage so I cannot comment. However wondering the likes of ACDC . . How do they cope being so loud. I see no plugs!

 

[happyrat1]

They're probably 80% deaf already. Then again with their style of music that shouldn't make any difference

Gary

 

[Eric Barker]

LOL, welcome to the club, I get this ALL THE TIME, and it's been a frustrating uphill battle! We're the house band for a moderate sized saloon and a decent size stage, but I'm in the back corner right next to the drums, which is about the worst place any musician can be. Corners are bass magnifiers, by nature, and drums (to my left) are always going to be the loudest acoustic instrument on stage. Here's what I did, I have my own amp that I place right in the corner at a 45 degree angle upward, sitting on top of a plastic milk crate. The trick is to get your monitoring amp as close and focused at you as possible. I even built a simple wooden holder so I could lay it at a 45 degree angle up at my ear. This has cut down on the complaints greatly.

That often goes to shit during rehearsals or in other spaces though. The moment I turn it up just loud enough to hear myself over the drummer, everyone's giving me dirty looks. I'll get back to you when I've got it all figured out... probably never.

I also suspect keyboardists have a reputation like victorian children "Should be seen, not heard"... except for the "seen" part.

 

[CowboyNQ]

ersonally I have never been on stage so I cannot comment. However wondering the likes of ACDC . . How do they cope being so loud. I see no plugs!

Hence Brian Johnson having to quit in favour of Axl Rose. He was bascially told by his doctor to stop before he suffered 100% hearing loss.

 

[odnt]

OP - get your speaker up off the floor.

 

[Eric Barker]

Keep in mind that getting the monitor focused at your ear is only half the battle. Like a microphone, the ear works even better on-axis. Our ears are designed to hear things best and loudest around the same height and slightly to the front. For a keyboard, front is often impossible because that's where you're board is, but if you can get it up off the ground so it's not bouncing off the bottom of your earlobe, that's even better. Probably the best is a small monitor just above and in front of your keyboard at eye level, but that's not always possible (not in my situation anyway), so get it off the floor as much as you can if it's to the side. And obviously focus it at your ear, not at your knee (as most monitor angles do).