Hello all, newbie to the forum here. I currently play guitar and sing in my band and we’ve been dabbling into some more 70’s era prog rock band types of style music and I am in the market for a strong keyboard /synth that can produce good organ , moog , EP, etc all the staples of the genre I previously mentioned. I’ve played a little keys in the last but never really stuck to it . I’d like to take it further and really make a primary instrument /voicing for the band . The other guitar player is a great player so he will handle the lion’s share of guitar as I focus more on the keyboard endeavor. I’ve done some light research and am right now looking at a Yamaha MX61 , MODX6 or Roland JUNO DS61. 61 keys is ideal for me because of space limitations on stage. We play mostly local smaller bars. Anyway budget isn’t really an issue as of right now but I don’t want to spend over $3k if I don’t need too. Are those two I mentioned a good starting point or do I just go all in on a Nord or Korg as a one and done kinda deal? Thanks in advance !
Prog Rock Beginner Keyboard/ Synth
- Thread starter johnnyboy
- Start date
welcome.
Suggest forgetting the MX, the MODX and Juno are good choice, both have been around for a while.
Sort of a bit newer is the Korg Nautilus which is basically a cut down version of the now defunct Kronos.
New kid on the block is Roland’s 06 ( not the FA06 which is 10+ years old ).
Pretty sure others will suggest a Kursweil but its not a keyboard I know much about, they are very rare over here.
If space really is a big factor then nothing is as compact as a Korg Kross 2 and at less than 9lbs its very lightweight.
Good luck with your research.
Suggest forgetting the MX, the MODX and Juno are good choice, both have been around for a while.
Sort of a bit newer is the Korg Nautilus which is basically a cut down version of the now defunct Kronos.
New kid on the block is Roland’s 06 ( not the FA06 which is 10+ years old ).
Pretty sure others will suggest a Kursweil but its not a keyboard I know much about, they are very rare over here.
If space really is a big factor then nothing is as compact as a Korg Kross 2 and at less than 9lbs its very lightweight.
Good luck with your research.
Thank you, I will definitely check out the Kross 2, although I am not familiar with Korg at all. Any love or experience for the Nord? I see the Roland VR-09 popping up as well, any thoughts on that one?
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,644
- Reaction score
- 581
There are a number of issues to think about.
Some boards are really good at one of these things, less good at others. Boards that are really good at all of them are, as you might expect, pricier. You could also get a pair of boards, each better at some things.
Piano is another staple of the music, I don't know if that matters to you, but pianos (even more so than the EPs you mentioned) play best from hammer actions, which are worst for organs... so if you really want just one board, you want to look for either one of the hammer action boards that aren't too bad for organ, or one of the organ friendlier feeling boards that are not too bad for piano.
Besides particular kinds of sounds, prog music often involves playing multiple sounds simultaneously (e.g. different sound on left and right hand, like a Moog lead over a Hammond organ), and/or switching rapidly among multiple sounds. This means either arranging splits on the keyboard (and making sure you have enough keys for each sound when you need it, and probably taking the time to set these things up in advance), or, again, possibly using multiple keyboards. Trying to do everything on a single 61-key board will take some setup effort and compromise, I suspect, but you could start there, and maybe add another board later.
Things I think you might want to look at, sticking with your preference for 61, and focusing on the sounds you mentioned (organ, EP, moog, by which I'll be talking about just analog-synthy kinds of sounds in general)
Yamaha YC61 - strong organ, strong EP, maybe passable moog (limited number of synth sounds in it, with limited editing available). Above average ease of use. You can combine up to 3 sounds at a time (but then 1 must be an organ, and there's only a single split point).
Yamaha MODX6 - okay organ, okay EP, ok moog... none of those are the board's strongest sounds, but none of them are too weak, and the board is extremely flexible (e.g. in terms of editing sounds, or setting up splits/layers). You can combine up to 8 sounds at a time. You can also load custom samples into it.
(Aside - The MX you asked about is weaker than MODX for organ, weaker for EP, and you have to use a 3rd-party editor if you want to edit sounds or assemble combinations of more than two sounds. The Juno DS you asked about has an advantage over the MX in that you can do the sound editing and 3+combination assembly on the board itself, but I'd say that its action is probably worse, and the sounds of interest are probably no better, and I think possibly weaker, though there's always some subjectivity to that. Unlike the MX, it does have some ability to load custom samples, though. Regardless, since you have a better budget, I'd have a hard time recommending either of these since I think you can get something with more strengths and/or fewer weaknesses for the sounds at hand.)
Roland VR-09B you asked about - strong organ, weakish EP, good moog. Most synth editing needs to be done via an outboard editor (Roland's is an iPad app, there's also a freeware editor for Mac/Windows). Easy to use. Limited effects (i.e. you can't put different effects on different sounds at the same time). Below average action, especially for piano. Not really geared to play more than 2 sounds at a time (though you can get around that with the freeware editor). Quick patch changes can be a little awkward, since there are only 4 dedicated patch change buttons.
Roland Fantom-06 - strong organ, weakish EP, good moog (better than VR-09B).. But unlike the VR-09B, there's full editing on board, you can play up to 16 sounds at a time, each with their own effects. Very flexible, and I'd say easier to use than MODX. You can also load custom samples into it. (There's also the full Fantom 6 which is nicer... better feeling keys, more real-time controls, among other things, but quite a bit pricier, and heavier).
Korg Nautilus - basically, pretty strong at everything. Another one you can also load custom samples into.
Vox Continental - okay organ, strong EPs, maybe ok moog (limited number of synth sounds in it, with limited editing available... tough probably more "analog sounding" than the YC61 which I described the same way). One of my favorite actions. But almost no split capability, and again, only 4 dedicated patch change buttons.
Hammond SK Pro - probably strongest organ, fair-to-okay EP, good moog. A bit more complicated to navigate than it should be.
Kurzweil and Nord have some good options, but any of the models I'd recommend have at least 73 keys.
Being able to seamlessly switch from one sound to another (ie, without a held/decaying note or its effect being cutoff when you switch to the next sound) is a nice feature. They can all do this to some extent (Hammond weakest here, I think), but there are different caveats.
If a board works for you except for some particular sounds, you can consider supplementing with a small external device. A Roland Boutique module can give you great synth sounds (their SE-02 specifically mimics a Minimoog nicely). There are all kinds of sounds you can add via a small iPad or iPhone. If this interest you, then some other factors include what MIDI capabilities are in the board, and whether the board may have space for you to place the device, which is a nice convenience. Except for the Vox, all of the boards I suggested considering allow you to use their own patch change buttons to call up sounds that reside externally. Integrating internal and external sounds is easiest on the MODX.
p.s. - Based on the music you're talking about, mellotron might be another sound of interest.
Last edited:
Wow, lots of good info here, thank you! How about Korg Kross 2, is that a viable option? I'm beginning to lean towards either that or the Juno DS, but really just based on internet/YouTube research.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,644
- Reaction score
- 581
There have been numerous threads here about Kross vs. Juno DS, where you can find all kinds of detail.
In terms of the sounds you asked about, I think Kross has the better EPs. It has better MIDI capability. IIRC, a combination of sounds can have up to 5 effects assigned to individual sounds, vs. 3 on the Juno DS. But Kross lacks the custom sample loading (for keyboard-playable sounds) and the seamless sound switching of the Juno DS (which doesn't maintain effects through a switch, but is often still very workable). Action is probably not too different.
If I had to pick one of those two, for your purposes, I'd probably choose the Roland, because if you're trying to "simulate" 2-board operation with one board, the Roland gives you decent ability to change the sound/octave/volume of the sound on one half of the split in real time, without affecting the sound on the other half of the split, which might come in handy.
If you're trying to stay in that price range, the VR-09B is stronger than Kross or Juno DS for 2 out of your 3 requested kinds of sounds (organ and synth)... but the VR-09B is also less flexible in other ways like splits/layers and on-board editing. Trade-offs, as always...
In terms of the sounds you asked about, I think Kross has the better EPs. It has better MIDI capability. IIRC, a combination of sounds can have up to 5 effects assigned to individual sounds, vs. 3 on the Juno DS. But Kross lacks the custom sample loading (for keyboard-playable sounds) and the seamless sound switching of the Juno DS (which doesn't maintain effects through a switch, but is often still very workable). Action is probably not too different.
If I had to pick one of those two, for your purposes, I'd probably choose the Roland, because if you're trying to "simulate" 2-board operation with one board, the Roland gives you decent ability to change the sound/octave/volume of the sound on one half of the split in real time, without affecting the sound on the other half of the split, which might come in handy.
If you're trying to stay in that price range, the VR-09B is stronger than Kross or Juno DS for 2 out of your 3 requested kinds of sounds (organ and synth)... but the VR-09B is also less flexible in other ways like splits/layers and on-board editing. Trade-offs, as always...
To add to Scott’s great posts, I had a Kross 2 for two years.
Before I bought it I spent a lot of time trying them both back to back at a music store 5 minutes from home.
It was a close call between the two, but I only chose it over the Juno due to its compact size and light weight as I wanted a easily transportable keyboard. The menu system is very extensive, and by very, I mean very, verging on the RSI level if you do a lot of sound creation which the board is good at, the standard presets are good and the user creations can be accessed very quickly by a single button press if you place them relative to their use in a specific song. Keybed is not the best, but then again neither is the Juno, and whilst it does not have seamless sound transition, it was rarely an issue, but the Juno did handle it better. Generally Korg’s weak spot is their piano sounds, that was the case with the K2 initially but an update in about 2019 gave some 30+ new piano sounds to the keyboard which were vastly superior, subjective yes, but they worked for me.
The Juno did have the edge in some sounds and easy of access for adjustments and for home use I would buy it over the K2, well not really I would spend more and get the Roland 07. Sound you go this route do physically test play them prior to purchase if you can, if you cannot then do ensure there is a returns policy that suits you.
Both Roland and Korg have Youtube channels where they have a number of video tutorials, I suggest that watching these will give a much better understanding of these keyboards than other Youtube reviews.
Before I bought it I spent a lot of time trying them both back to back at a music store 5 minutes from home.
It was a close call between the two, but I only chose it over the Juno due to its compact size and light weight as I wanted a easily transportable keyboard. The menu system is very extensive, and by very, I mean very, verging on the RSI level if you do a lot of sound creation which the board is good at, the standard presets are good and the user creations can be accessed very quickly by a single button press if you place them relative to their use in a specific song. Keybed is not the best, but then again neither is the Juno, and whilst it does not have seamless sound transition, it was rarely an issue, but the Juno did handle it better. Generally Korg’s weak spot is their piano sounds, that was the case with the K2 initially but an update in about 2019 gave some 30+ new piano sounds to the keyboard which were vastly superior, subjective yes, but they worked for me.
The Juno did have the edge in some sounds and easy of access for adjustments and for home use I would buy it over the K2, well not really I would spend more and get the Roland 07. Sound you go this route do physically test play them prior to purchase if you can, if you cannot then do ensure there is a returns policy that suits you.
Both Roland and Korg have Youtube channels where they have a number of video tutorials, I suggest that watching these will give a much better understanding of these keyboards than other Youtube reviews.
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,644
- Reaction score
- 581
Yes, but at least there is a computer-based editor, which probably makes sense to use if you're getting into deep programming, though it is not elegant (i.e. it shows its age, and then some). I don't think there's a librarian function. Meanwhile, Juno DS has a downloadable librarian (very handy), but no editor. You can't have everything...
There is an Editing programme available for free with the K2.
Programs and Combi’s can be easily edited and loaded onto the K2 and it also integrates with a DAW
Downloads | KROSS - Editor/Plug-In Editor | KORG (USA)
株式会社コルグは、音楽を演奏、作曲するためのシンセサイザーやデジタルピアノ(電子ピアノ）、DJ機器、デジタル・レコーダー、エフェクター、チューナーまでさまざまな電子楽器を製造、販売しています。
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,644
- Reaction score
- 581
Right, that's what I was saying as well. It alleviates the menu diving. (Kross is the one with editor, but not a librarian function that I could see; Juno DS has a librarian, but not an editor.)
Thanks everyone for the knowledge and input. I recently received the Juno DS61 and have been messing around with it, I like it and has some good preset patches right out of the gate, IMO. I also have a Korg Kross 2 on the way so am looking forward to compare them. I'm extremely thankful for both Sweetwater's and Amazon's mostly painless return policies, lol. Also time to dig into their respective YouTube channels...
Start here