Question about amps...

[Kaneda]

Maybe this is a stupid question (I know it is), but here goes anyway.

I have bought a Roland KC-220 amp for my Kawai MP11SE, and I'm very happy with it. Also have a Kross 2 88 in another location, which is connected to a Laney AH150.
Now, the Laney produces a noticeable hiss, and I find that somewhat annoying, to be honest (in all honesty, it's not suited for home use, should have thought of that before). I'm thinking of selling it and get a KC-220 for my Kross 2 as well (I'm not really keen on buying monitor speakers, as you already might have guessed).

My question : in about a year's time, I will have both keyboards at the same location, at which point I'll probablly use the Kross 2 as a second tier for the Kawai (my Spider Pro is quite versatile so I'll find a setup that works, keeping the Kawai on its dedicated K&M stand).
Now, at that point in time, I would have two KC-220, which are both stereo speakers. Suppose I then plug the individual line output from the Kawai into each KC-220, would that give me the same stereo effect as, say two individual mono amps ?
So basically:
- connect the L line output from the Kawai to the L/mono input on the left KC-220
and
- connect the R line output from the Kawai to the L/mono input on the right KC-220

And obviously, do the same thing with the Kross 2.
Or better still, I've also got a Behringer mixer, so I could just connect both boards normally to the mixer, and then connect the line outputs from the mixer to their respective inputs on either KC-220, and throw the iPad in the mix as well.

I'm always thinking of scenarios like that, and I find it kind of interesting to know whether that would work (teaching the layman in me a few lessons in the process ). The idea is to be able to use both keyboards in their respective locations and not ending up with redundant equipment afterwards.

 

[Biggles]

Feeding both keyboards through the Mixer and then on to each of the Amps (same make and model) is no different from feeding from the Mixer into PA or Powered Monitor speakers.

This is basically what I have when my system is fully set up, everything feeds into the mixer then the mixer outputs to my Behringer PA speakers

This is what one USA based retailer has to say on Mono v Stereo Amps

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/stereo-vs-mono-keyboard-amps-whats-difference/

 

[anotherscott]

What made you choose to get the KC220 instead of the CM30s you were talking about? Did you get to hear them both?

 

[Kaneda]

What made you choose to get the KC220 instead of the CM30s you were talking about? Did you get to hear them both?

Well, I heard the CM30s , but decided to take a chance on the KC-220 ( got good reviews at Sweetwater). And I’m happy to say it doesn’t disappoint. More convenient, too.
I would have sent it back, though, but my bet paid off

 

[b3maniac]

Other keyboard players use this same approach for stage and practice monitoring, so it isn't unusual. The distinction becomes for discerning keyboardists to use powered speakers if they play a lot of piano. Sounds like you have the options you prefer already identified. Don

 

[CowboyNQ]

Now, at that point in time, I would have two KC-220...

 

[Kaneda]

When I play a digital piano, I prefer it to sound like an acoustic one, rather than a studio recording
So again, why the hate for the KC-220 ?

 

[b3maniac]

So again, why the hate for the KC-220 ?

Don't take that too seriously. I would offer that, using an amplifier at home volume levels versus "gigging" volumes does make a difference to the ears. Then, you also consider that every player has their own preferences for monitoring/sound reproduction. For those who "gig" and prefer a more detailed sound, standard "keyboard" amplifiers may/may not satisfy at higher volume levels. Roland keyboard amps seem to be widely used for gigging without much user complaint, but they also get a thumbs down for stage use from some of us. I've had many different stage "monitor" set-ups through the years and personally found gigging happiness with powered speakers from EV/Yamaha/QSC/Mackie. But, I will use alternate gear if need be (Roland amp?) , especially if I don't have to lift or move it...............lol.

 

[Kaneda]

Well, I don’t know if my setup sounds the way it is supposed to sound, according to the international treaty for prevention of mediocre lows, mids and highs ; all I know is it sounds good to my untrained ears

 

[b3maniac]

all I know is it sounds good to my untrained ears

Exactly !!

 

[delaware dave]

Until you play it through better amplification, then you realize its shortcomings.

 

[anotherscott]

Until you play it through better amplification, then you realize its shortcomings.

Yes, there could be some of that. Early on in his buying process, a number of people told Kaneda they thought the Kross 88 didn't have a great action. And yes, there is some subjectivity to this, and some people will like it more than others, and he can certainly like that action more than some other people do, or rank it differently against its direct competitors. But it was after he brought home his Kawai that he came to what sounded like what most of us seem to consider a more realistic assessment of the Kross, when he posted in another thread "I have been looking for a lighter alternative to take on the road. My Kross 2 88 could do the job, but to be quite frank, the key action really isn't ideal for piano (I'm quite spoiled with the MP11SE)." Well, yeah. The KC220 may be decent (the bad KCs I've heard have been other models), but I would not be surprised if some day he hears his Kawai through something else and says, "oh, yeah, it was okay, but you can really hear a difference."

 

[Biggles]

Yes, there could be some of that. Early on in his buying process, a number of people told Kaneda they thought the Kross 88 didn't have a great action. And yes, there is some subjectivity to this, and some people will like it more than others, and he can certainly like that action more than some other people do, or rank it differently against its direct competitors. But it was after he brought home his Kawai that he came to what sounded like what most of us seem to consider a more realistic assessment of the Kross, when he posted in another thread "I have been looking for a lighter alternative to take on the road. My Kross 2 88 could do the job, but to be quite frank, the key action really isn't ideal for piano (I'm quite spoiled with the MP11SE)." Well, yeah. The KC220 may be decent (the bad KCs I've heard have been other models), but I would not be surprised if some day he hears his Kawai through something else and says, "oh, yeah, it was okay, but you can really hear a difference."

What I just do not get is goalposts constantly changing.

For a home environment where a home studio is not a viable option then I am still convinced that a pair of quality monitors, a sub and a para eq will be more than good enough to give the audio quality that is desired.

In Kaneda’s case I am convinced that nothing will last until he gets an acoustic piano in his home.

 

[Kaneda]

I'm completely happy with what I have now : the Kross 2 88 remains a favourite and the new Kawai MP11SE, well, what can I say. It's what I should have bought from the start.
I will, however, refrain from buying any more keyboards. I might as well use the Kross 2 88 for those gigs after all, it's not that heavy and I already had a Gatorcase case for it. I'll probably replace the Laney AH150 with another KC-220, though, because that Laney really is a pain to move. The Kross 2's keybed is not perfect for piano, but it's not as if it's that bad. I've gotten used to it but I think I was comparing it too much with the Kawai.

As for that KC-220, I know it's very subjective, but I like the way it sounds, it's more 'organic' than any studio monitor. And as far as studio monitors go, to me, hearing an acoustic piano being played while standing next to it, whether it's an upright or a grand (and how sonically imperfect it may seem to your studio trained ears), sounds soooo much better than hearing the best sample in the world through studio speakers...

In Kaneda’s case I am convinced that nothing will last until he gets an acoustic piano in his home.

Well, the current equivalent of that Yamaha acoustic upright I used to own, costs close to 10k EUR. So that's quite steep.
But who knows, in the future, I might have the space and the money for a real Shigeru Kawai grand

 

[anotherscott]

I might as well use the Kross 2 88 for those gigs after all... I'll probably replace the Laney AH150 with another KC-220, though, because that Laney really is a pain to move

Before you think about buying another KC-220 with the idea of gigging with it, you might want to give the one you have a trial run in a bigger space with more volume, based on the "good and bad" about the KC-220 discussed at http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/topics/2893556.html

 

[Kaneda]

Before you think about buying another KC-220 with the idea of gigging with it, you might want to give the one you have a trial run in a bigger space with more volume, based on the "good and bad" about the KC-220 discussed at http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/topics/2893556.html

The KC-220 really is not the lemon you all think it is.
I was considering a Casio PX-S1000 so that means I don't need it to be 'loud' by any means. Very small venues, I said, with the emphasis on 'very'.
The KC-220 will do nicely and it seems I'm not the only one who likes the output from it, when you read the comments on pianoworld.

Anyway, I will be selling the Laney AH150 as it's proven to be overkill for me, so the KC-220 will replace that nicely. For my Kawai, I have opted for studio monitors after all. Took another good listen in a store and the iLoud Micro Monitors kind of impressed me this time around so I'll be ordering these, as they're more than loud and punchy enough for the space I'm playing in.

 

[anotherscott]

I do not consider KC-220 a lemon (I've never even heard one myself), and if it sounds good to you and does what you need, great. But just based on that thread I referenced, I would not assume it would do *more* than you currently need without testing it for that purpose first. SInce you already own one, it would be cheaper/easier to test with that one than to buy another and then discover that it did not "scale up" as you'd hoped and have to return it, which was my reason for posting.

I know you were considering the PX-S1000. I would not assume that would be loud enough for a gig either. I can tell you from my experience that many slabs that seem to have plenty of volume in a living room cannot suitably cover even a solo cocktail hour gig, depending on the size of the room, the number of people, the background noise. In my experience, some can, but most cannot.

As for your home use, the iLoud Micro Monitors look like a nice choice. I haven't heard them, but from what I've read, as long as you don't push them too loud for too long, they do a great job. At the same price, you could also look at the JBL 305P MKII which probably could play louder longer without hitting its limits, but they're quite a bit larger which may not be desirable in your setup, only to offer an advantage you may not need.

 

[Docbop]

Two 15 watt amps into two 6.5" speaker isn't going to carry or even be very full sounding, at best they are midrange heavy to try and cut thru. Get something like a QSC K8.2 Active 8" Powered speaker that is a full sounding system for small gigs or home (but it's mono not stereo). You bought a good keyboard it needs a good amp to get that sound you bought it for out.