Question about Midi Mod Wheel and Pitch Bend

Discussion in 'MIDI' started by CoolGuy, Dec 1, 2016.

  1. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy

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    So I own a Casio CDP-130 keyboard. It outputs midi through usb. However, it doesn't have a pitch bend or mod wheel. I'm not really interested in installing my own and I've heard you can just buy a cheap midi controller and use its wheels to control the other keyboard (Casio). So since I couldn't find any standalone usb mod wheels, I've been thinking about buying a midi controller. Does anyone know if this method works? If it does, would I just plug the two keyboards into my laptop? Or would I have to buy a midi merger and somehow combine them into one input. Also, once I get both keyboards connected to my laptop, how would I go about programming the mod wheel? I don't have any software preference but I can't run FL Studio on my mac. So can you recommend a certain software that would allow me to use the mod wheel on the midi controller to affect the notes on the Casio keyboard? Sorry for my lack of Midi experience, I normally play classical piano.
    Thanks,
    Cool Guy
     
    CoolGuy, Dec 1, 2016
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  2. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy

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    I know there are apps for pitch bend and mod wheels but I'd rather use something more tactile, and my phone battery isn't great.
     
    CoolGuy, Dec 1, 2016
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  3. CoolGuy

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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    You would just plug them both into the USB ports of your computer and use MIDI routing software to output the MIDI from the controller wheels to the Casio.

    Just do a google search on freeware MIDI routing software and a few will turn up.

    Gary ;)
     
    happyrat1, Dec 1, 2016
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  4. CoolGuy

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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  5. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy

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    So I can input midi into my Casio? I'll test this now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2016
    CoolGuy, Dec 1, 2016
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  6. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy

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    [​IMG]
    Nice!
    I download a program and routed my launchpad into the keyboard. The launchpad sends notes I guess to the keyboard. Does that mean if I do the same using a midi controller, the pitch wheel will change the pitch on the piano? Also, I believe mod wheels are configurable so how would I change the mod wheel to control vibrato instead of velocity or vice versa?
     
    CoolGuy, Dec 1, 2016
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  7. CoolGuy

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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    You'll have to configure the controller to send the CC# for the effect you want to use and you'll have to check the MIDI specs on your Casio to make sure it can recognize that particular effect.

    Gary ;)
     
    happyrat1, Dec 1, 2016
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  8. CoolGuy

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    One thing you need to be aware of is that a given keyboard might not respond to certain types of MIDI messages. Be sure to check the MIDI Implementation Chart for your keyboard to see which MIDI messages it responds to.

    Fortunately, the CDP-130 does respond to both Pitch Bend and Modulation messages; but I brought this up for the benefit of others who might think about getting a MIDI controller to use with their keyboard. :)
     
    SeaGtGruff, Dec 1, 2016
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  9. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy

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    Alright, I was expecting to hear that, but isn't it possible to use the computer to create the piano sounds and modulate them using the mod wheels?
     
    CoolGuy, Dec 1, 2016
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  10. CoolGuy

    Fred Coulter Collector of ancient keyboards

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    Pianos don't normally bend pitch or have vibrato. A piano normally only responds to the velocity with which you depress the keys. (OK, the pedals matter, too.)

    Why am I saying this? Because some keyboard's piano sound, in the pursuit of realism, don't respond to pitch bend or modulation wheel commands. It's rare, but it does happen. But if you're trying for a realistic piano sound, I'd avoid using either controller.

    These comments only apply to piano. If you think that's tough, think about harpsichord, which isn't even velocity sensitive.
     
    Fred Coulter, Dec 2, 2016
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  11. CoolGuy

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    Do you have the MIDI implementation guide for your CDP-130?

    http://support.casio.com/en/manual/manualfile.php?cid=008006006

    I don't see anything that mentions how to set the type of modulation; the descriptions for Modulation and Channel Aftertouch seem to say that the specific type of modulation effect depends on the tone-- i.e., that it's "embedded" into the tone itself (or into the patch that defines the tone, if you will).

    As far as assigning a particular Control Change number to the Modulation Wheel, you can assign whichever CC#s you want, but only CC#s that the keyboard responds to will do anything-- e.g., you could assign the CC# for Filter Cutoff to the Modulation Wheel, but the CDP-130 doesn't respond to it, so it won't do anything. On the other hand, you could assign the CC# for Pan, or Expression, or Reverb Send, etc., since the CDP-130 responds to those.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Dec 2, 2016
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  12. CoolGuy

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    I don't know about the CDP-130, but my inexpensive Yamaha models let me bend the pitch on piano voices. My philosophy on whether that's "acceptable" from a puritanical viewpoint is that if it's okay for a musician to stick things in his piano (i.e., a "prepared piano"), or to pluck and strum the strings as though playing a harp (e.g., Keith Emerson in "Take a Pebble"), then it's okay for me to bend notes on a piano voice. ;)
     
    SeaGtGruff, Dec 2, 2016
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  13. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy

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    Obviously I'm not using the keyboard for piano voices... but that sounds like a neat idea :)
    The point of the keyboard is that I prefer the weighted keys, and it has all 88 keys. I usually plug into logic and load electric piano or synth presets depending on what I'm playing. I'm looking to find a way to modulate the sounds while playing live.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
    CoolGuy, Dec 2, 2016
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  14. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy

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    I'm not sure if my keyboard supports that feature but I'll check tomorrow. I want to know if it's possible to use my keyboard to play midi notes in a DAW and also have a midi controller to modulate said notes (Rather than having midi data being sent to my keyboard, have it run in the DAW).
     
    CoolGuy, Dec 2, 2016
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  15. CoolGuy

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    Which feature? It doesn't support modifying the EG Attack/Release or the LPF Cutoff/Resonance, if that's what you mean.

    Yes, you can combine the data from two or more MIDI devices in your DAW-- e.g., use the CDP-130 to play the notes (which are then sounded by whichever virtual instrument is assigned to that track in the DAW), and use the various controls on a controller to add Control Change, Program Change, Pitch Bend, or other MIDI events on the same track.

    In fact, when you add a MIDI track in a lot of DAWs, the default settings will often be for the track to listen to (i.e., accept input from) all available MIDI channels on all available MIDI devices at the same time.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Dec 2, 2016
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  16. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy

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    Ok i'll try to figure it out, thanks!
     
    CoolGuy, Dec 3, 2016
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  17. CoolGuy

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    Did you mention which DAW you're using? We might be able to help you configure everything correctly for it.

    Computer = Mac(?)
    DAW = ?
    Keyboard = Casio CDP-130
    Controller = Launchpad MK2
     
    SeaGtGruff, Dec 3, 2016
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  18. CoolGuy

    CoolGuy

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    Yes, I'm on mac and I have logic, studio one prime, and ableton live. I wouldn't mind using any of these but the launchpad was designed for ableton live, and although I may need to upgrade my license to use certain features. However, I know it is possible with ableton to use the launchpad as sliders (run your finger over the buttons in a line) which would be pretty neat if I could just use that instead of buying a new controller.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2016
    CoolGuy, Dec 4, 2016
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  19. CoolGuy

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    The LaunchPad should work with any DAW-- it doesn't need to be Ableton Live.

    I have Ableton Live Lite and Studio One Prime, but not Logic because I'm on Windows. I don't have the LaunchPad, but I do have a related controller (the LaunchControl). I'll get back to you later with information about setting up in Ableton Live and Studio One.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Dec 4, 2016
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