Recordin the keyboard sounds sh*t

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Hi

I want to put some strings together with my acoustic guitar. I use a Zoom r8 (portable recorder).
But the recorded sound from the keyboard sounds aweful. There's a high Z switch on the Zoom, but doesn't matter in what position I use it.

Nothing wrong with the cable either, since I tried line the acoustic with it and got a good result.
In fact I get a better sound putting a condenser mick right on the keyboard speaker instead of line it with a cable.
It's a Yamaha DGX200. Nothing wrong with it, some strings sounds pretty nice too, until I record and listen to the result.
What can I try to fix this, any ideas?
Nikki
 

happyrat1

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I believe in the keyboard's menus there's a setting to adjust the headphone out jack from headphone impedance to line level impedance.
 
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happyrat1 said:
I believe in the keyboard's menus there's a setting to adjust the headphone out jack from headphone impedance to line level impedance.
Oh I'd never had thought of that. Thx I will check this when I get home.

The Y-man, I'm not at home atm and would need to listen to it again to be able to better describe what I'm getting.
If Happpyrat's solution above doesn't work I'll upload something.

I only tried recording very quickly yesterday, but another thing I thought about now is that I had the volume on the keyboard almost as high as it gets. Maybe it should be lowered a bit?
 
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I believe in the keyboard's menus there's a setting to adjust the headphone out jack from headphone impedance to line level impedance.
Unfortunately there's no such setting. Actually no setting in the menu at all that I could find adressing anything usefull for my problem.

Nikki, can you describe what you are getting? i.e. is it muffled, distorted, tinny, ?

Maybe link us to a sample recording.

The Y-man

I recorded a little quick sample with a few different sounds. First sound is called 'Fargo'. Sounds very nice with headphones in the keyboard, sounds terrible recorded, as you'll hear.

I got a newer keyboard. Yamaha DGX 630 (YPG 635).
Also have a newer digital recorder, Zoom R24.
I've tried different cables. I made sure no effects or anything else is active in the recorder. All EQ at zero, no switches active etc. But no matter I activate effects or play around with th EQ, there's still this thing making the sound sound like in my sample.
I've tried putting keyboard master volume at almost zero, and almost at maximum and everything between. Same with gain on the recorder.

So, my 2 keyboards and my 2 recorders, no matter what I've tried, the end result is still the same.
Here's the sound sample.

https://soundcloud.com/musettelover/keytestmp3
 
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I guess when there's nothing to compare it to it sounds 'ok'.
But I can tell you this, when I play with head phones directly into the keyboard, it sounds absolutely great. But if I quickly plug the phones into the recorder instead (when the recorder is connected to the keyboard), the difference is absolutely huge. It adds some kind of high frequency sound to it.

Also, if I use 'slow strings' and play a chord, plus playing a melody on higher notes, it sounds perfectly in the phones, same as using the built in speakers. But connected to the recorder, the melody is very hard to even hear.
There's definitely something wrong.

A line box/DI box wouldn't do me any good, would it?
 
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What sort of cable are you using to connect from the output jack to the recorder?

We're starting to step outside my area of expertise here as I don't do home recording, but I think you'll need a TRS jack plugged in to the keyboard headphone output.

upload_2015-11-18_23-4-15.jpeg


The TRS is the one on the left. If you're using a TS (the one on the right), I reckon you'll have issues.

Don't know if that helps?
 

happyrat1

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I'm with the rest of the guys on this one. The Soundcloud recording sounds perfectly acceptable on my system.

What I think this boils down to is that different speakers are going to sound differently no matter what.

I dunno if you're using a pair of $500 Koss electrostatic headphones or a $10 pair of earbuds you picked up at radio shack, but anything you plug your output into is going to color the sound in one fashion or another.

Regardless of whether it's an inline recorder, or a soundcard input, or a $3000 set of Klipshorns, they're all going to display different sound characteristics.

Some of that can be "fixed" by adjusting EQ or room acoustics but without a lab mic and a spectrum analyser this is an impossible task for an amateur engineer.

If you are trying to record a serious pressing here for commercial release, then by all means spend a few hundred and get a consulting audio engineer to look over your setup or move it to a commercial recording studio and have a pro handle the mixing.

Otherwise, if this is only home recording for your own pleasure, then the best you could do is maybe put a graphic equalizer inline with your rig and try and tune the sound color to your liking.

But really, the general consensus is that there is no audible distortion in that recording.

Gary ;)
 
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If you're using a TS (the one on the right), I reckon you'll have issues.

Don't know if that helps?
I'm using the one to the right, yes. I don't even have a cable with TRS jack. I'll try this asap, thanks.


I'm with the rest of the guys on this one. The Soundcloud recording sounds perfectly acceptable on my system.

What I think this boils down to is that different speakers are going to sound differently no matter what..

Gary ;)
I don't know a whole lot about keyboards and keyboard sounds, I realize I should start listen to what you guys say. But hear this, and try come up with something to explain this to me:

I plug in the keyboard to the recorder
I put my phones in the keyboard and it sounds great
I quickly remove the phones cables from the keyboard and put them in the recorder. The sound now sounds terrible. Huge difference.

So if you're sugesting that my phones color the sound in its own way, I agree with you. But why do the same phones color the sound completely different, and add
some high frequency stuff, that doesn't sound good, when its connected to the recorder?

I'll elaborate more this friday and try to find some sounds where the difference is more audible. Unless the suggestion to use a TRS will work.
Thanks for the help guys!
 

happyrat1

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Actually what cable you use to connect your recorder depends on what sort of inputs it has.

If it has dual Left and Right 1/4" inputs then the connector you need to hook it up to a headphone jack is this one.

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-STP203-Dual-Insert/dp/B000068O1P

Otherwise if it's a single 3.5 mm stereo input jack on the recorder then the cable you'd need this one.

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-CMS110-inch-Adapter/dp/B000068O36

If you could tell us or send a photo of the exact inputs and outputs you are using we can help you select the exact cable you need.

Gary ;)
 
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Rear panel of the keyboard
8046_12074_1.jpg





Rear panel of the recorder (Zoom r24)
r24_rearView_0.png



And I connect from the keyboards phones/output to any of the 8 inputs in the recorder with a mono tele cable (TS).
 

happyrat1

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OK, you can use the STP-203 cable I listed.

http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Cable-STP203-Dual-Insert/dp/B000068O1P

There are size choices you can click for cable length on that Amazon page but generally 6 to 10 feet is a good length.

Just plug the tip with three bands into the headphone jack on the keyboard and plug the other two ends into the recorder's #1 and #2 inputs in the centers. Those are dual type plugs accepting either TS or XLR inputs but nobody makes a TRS to stereo XLR breakout cable.

Also if your recorder has a setting for inputs set those two inputs to LINE level NOT MIC level for recording. That could cause the type of distortion we've been discussing.

That should give you a proper hookup for stereo recording.

Gary ;)
 
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I think we've found your problem. I don't think the TS cable you're using will work properly in the headphone output of your keyboard.

Looking at your recorder, you'd need the first cable Gary mentioned. I use something similar for stereo monitoring my mixer live on stage.

Good luck!
 

happyrat1

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I just scanned your manual for the recorder.

Plug the red connector to input 4 and the white connector to input 3 to get proper stereo imaging. Plug the black connector to the headphone out on your keyboard.

Inputs 1&2 and 7&8 are reserved for special functions.

For keyboards use inputs 3&4 or 5&6 and always plug the white connector to the odd number of the pair to get proper stereo imaging.

There's no line level switches on the unit but turn the gain way down for each channel when connecting a keyboard and always start off with the keyboard volume slider below 20% when powering up to avoid blowing out any speakers.

Gary ;)
 
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happyrat1

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BTW, not to cause undue alarm, but when you were using a TS cable plugged into the headphone jack you were dead shorting out one of the audio channels.

You may or may not have caused permanent damage to the output at this point.

If your headphones are still working on both channels that's a good indicator that the output hasn't blown but there's really no way to know for certain until you acquire the proper cable and test it out on your recorder one channel at a time.

Until then DO NOT plug the TS cable back into the headphone out again.

Gary
 
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Problem solved.
The STP-203 cable was exactely what I needed. And a proper stereo recording set up. Happyrat, thank you for taking the time to study up on my equipment to be able to direct me. It probable saved me another week of troubleshooting.
And thanks Y-man and Cowboy for your kind inputs.

I'll start recording in a short while. I might be back soon, lol.
 

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