"Remap" one key?

[Oogie Wa Wa]

I've got a song that is partly in Bm and partly in D, and I'm playing key bass/keys on it, instead of bass guitar. The original bass player hits a very prominent low B on his five or six string bass during the Bm section. I've got a 61 key keyboard, and well, I ain't got no low B!!! It starts at C of course. And space is at a premium, a two-octave allocation for bass leaves me three for the other stuff. A 3/2 split doesn't leave me quite enough on top. I only need the D key in the second octave, I don't play anything lower than that B anyway, and I'm using my normal split at the third C key.

I do not use the lowest C key during the song at all. Would it be too weird to assign all of the first two octaves, except the lowest C key, to the bass patch; and then assign the same patch to that single lowest C key, but lowered one semitone? Then I could play everything I need in the two lower octaves of keys, and just have to remember that to play that B I actually play the C key. The end of the keybed is a simple physical reminder not to span the whole octave from the next B up. I'm pretty sure that I can pull it off, but is this a viable solution? Is there something simpler that I'm not seeing?

Thanks as always!
Nate

 

[amwilburn]

Firstly, Bm and D are the same key signature (so not really different keys, at least pure Bm isn't... most pop/rock songs wouldn't use melodic & harmonic minor, but *some* do, and most jazz as well)

But if I were you I'd either just transpose the keyboard down 1 semitone and play everything in Cm /Eb (if you're comfortable in those keys; if not, transpose down 3 semitones and play in F/Dm).

You didn't say which keyboard you have, so it's hard to say if there's another option; but depending on the keyboard, yeah, it might be possible to assign the bottom C 1 semitone lower.

Mark

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Thank you Mark.

Yes, you are correct and I understand about the signature, I mention it from a functional perspective.

The song is Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd. The verses and long guitar solo outro are Bm, A, G, a quick single F#, Em and back to Bm, all of which repeats. The bass notes are just the descending roots, starting on the higher B and ending on the low B under discussion, each time through the progression. The pre-choruses, choruses and during the first guitar solo progression is D, A, C and G repeated. Hence the functional difference.

The keyboard is a Roland Juno DS61. In the mode I'm using, it can have up to 16 "Parts," each associated with one patch. For each part there is full control of many parameters such as pitch, volume, pan, selectable active key zone (even just one), effects, etc. So I can use one Part for the bass on keys C#1 thru B2, if you will. Then use another identical part for just the C1 key, with the pitch set down one semitone. It's relatively easy to do.

The remaining keys, C3 - C6 will be used for the arpeggiated strings during the choruses, and I'll swap those to the Hammond plus orchestral sounds for the long ending.

I'll also have a 32 key MIDI keyboard controller to play the verses' orchestral lines. It just drives the Juno sound engine on another Part.

Unfortunately my keyboard skills are very limited. Normally I play bass guitar, but decided to go with key bass/keys to help fill out the sound of our 3-piece band. (Which it does incredibly well if do say so; my bandmates asked me to try it, and they love it!) I started playing bass at 50, and added the keyboard starting only a couple of years ago on a limited number of songs. My only real experience on keys was several years in my youth, where I learned electric organ. I hadn't touched a keyboard since then. And that was using a "method" where basically everything covered was in C, F or G! I've never played a piano, and that area needs a lot of work yet.

So at 69 I've been on a really steep learning curve as it is, and I have no desire to take the time to get to the 'any song in any key' stage in the foreseeable future. I've got quite a bit of theoretical understanding built up from advancing my bass skills. I understand almost all the chord forms and inversions, but practical execution is my real issue. It is what it is.

Heck, while I can finally transpose bass guitar on the fly to any key finally after 19 years, it took me three months just to get the descending arpeggiated string part down well for the choruses on this song, there's no way it's worth my time and effort to transpose that part!

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[delaware dave]

I've got a song that is partly in Bm and partly in D, and I'm playing key bass/keys on it, instead of bass guitar. The original bass player hits a very prominent low B on his five or six string bass during the Bm section. I've got a 61 key keyboard, and well, I ain't got no low B!!! It starts at C of course. And space is at a premium, a two-octave allocation for bass leaves me three for the other stuff. A 3/2 split doesn't leave me quite enough on top. I only need the D key in the second octave, I don't play anything lower than that B anyway, and I'm using my normal split at the third C key.

I do not use the lowest C key during the song at all. Would it be too weird to assign all of the first two octaves, except the lowest C key, to the bass patch; and then assign the same patch to that single lowest C key, but lowered one semitone? Then I could play everything I need in the two lower octaves of keys, and just have to remember that to play that B I actually play the C key. The end of the keybed is a simple physical reminder not to span the whole octave from the next B up. I'm pretty sure that I can pull it off, but is this a viable solution? Is there something simpler that I'm not seeing?

Thanks as always!
Nate

Setup a patch with two zones, zone 1 is the normal patch that you have. Set that zone to play from c#2 to c6 (assuming c#2 is your lowest c# on your 61 note keyboard). Setup a 2nd zone transposed down one semi-tone and set that zone to play from c2 to c2 (assuming c2 is the lowest c on your 61 note keyboard).

 

[amwilburn]

Yup! Beat me to it; the DS61 *does* allow exactly that; just setup the C as it's own zone, and pitch shift it down a semitone.

I haven't gone through the menus myself (we no longer carry Junods as it's discontinued) but this is what popped up:

Loading…

support.roland.com

Mark

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Setup a patch with two zones, zone 1 is the normal patch that you have. Set that zone to play from c#2 to c6 (assuming c#2 is your lowest c# on your 61 note keyboard). Setup a 2nd zone transposed down one semi-tone and set that zone to play from c2 to c2 (assuming c2 is the lowest c on your 61 note keyboard).

Yes, thank you, that's basically what I did in Roland-eze, and it works fine!

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Yup! Beat me to it; the DS61 *does* allow exactly that; just setup the C as it's own zone, and pitch shift it down a semitone.

I haven't gone through the menus myself (we no longer carry Junods as it's discontinued) but this is what popped up:

Loading…

support.roland.com

Mark

That's what I ended up doing. Except I've gone to exclusively using the 16 Part mode on it. A See single patch, a layered pair, and the Split Dual mode aren't nearly as useful for what I need.

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Just as an example of the 16 Part mode, our long version of Radar Love uses one zone/ part for the bass guitar; one part/zone for the base orchestra, to which I can toggle on additional parts for either a portamento saw or a trumpet; and yet another part for a weird little organ patch, driven by the keyboard controller.

Because the bass is extremely dynamic during a couple of solos, I play those on the bass guitar, as well as the verses and choruses. You just can't get it to sound right on keys. But during the instrumental and outro I swap over to the keyboard for everything. I've been told by several bass players that they cannot tell when I swap back and forth. It took a long time to get the bass patch to sound just like my bass.

Pretty cool for a relatively newbie and an entry level keyboard! The other band guys are really happy about what we can do now. I can only imagine what you folks can do with better keyboards and DAWs and such.