Roland Juno Di can play MIDI from USB or be driven by DAW, how to do it on Juno DS?

[MrDuck0409]

Yes, I did try to search the forums, but I couldn't find a straight answer.

For the last few years, I've been using a Roland Juno Di to run like a backing band by either using multichannel MIDI files an a USB drive with the song player, or play midi from a DAW (Cakewalk). The only thing special I had to do was to select the Perform bank and use preset 063 Seq template or 064 GM template and I could have my files select the proper patches and play a fully orchestrated MIDI file in all 16 channels.

I bought my Juno DS to perform in bands live (not sequenced or MIDI), but now that my Di is aging, i want to be able to use MIDI files on my DS and have the patches and other settings with the midi file sent accordingly and performed. The only thing I could find on other sites and online doc is to turn on the "DAW Control" button. Right now I'm just trying to get my laptop with Cakewalk by Bandlab to communicate to the DS and play. I just get garbage. (The Di and the DS are connected with a Roland UM-One USB-to-MIDI cable.)

Does the Juno DS no longer have the ability to play MIDI files directly (USB or DAW)? I've read (unconfirmed) information that suggests the only boards that can do that now is the Fantom series. I hope not. I like the DS's patches.

Thank you in advance.

Duck

 

[happyrat1]

Cakewalk needs a Cakewalk INS file in order to select Roland GS voices as well as all the other voices and drumkits in the Juno DS.

Fortunately I contributed to one a couple of years back.

I'll attach a version to this message as well as steer you to the cakewalk by bandlab forums where it's archived.

I'm on my laptop and I think this is the latest version though.

Roland Juno DS INS File. Here it is, updated March 2019

Someone got me started on this today and did most the of the heavy lifting so I completed the file today by cleaning out the illegal characters and adding Juno Di drum kits to the file. Here is what seems to be a good, working INS file for the Roland Juno DS complete with patches and drum kits. T...

discuss.cakewalk.com

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, if I read you correctly, then you are not using the USB connection on the DS to connect to the computer?

Instead you have the DI and the DS on a MIDI chain from a different USB MIDI Interface?

If so the computer may be seeing only the first device in the chain. It won't recognize them as separate devices unless they are on individual USB MIDI ports.

Also setting up a daisy chain involves setting the xmit and recv channels on the individual devices and activating MIDI THRU on the first keyboard so the receiving keyboard will get everything mirrored from the computer.

This can be tricky to set up and you will not be able to play all 16 MIDI channels on both instruments simultaneously.

Use the USB connection on the DS and install the Roland drivers for it. That's my advice.

Gary

 

[MrDuck0409]

Cakewalk needs a Cakewalk INS file in order to select Roland GS voices as well as all the other voices and drumkits in the Juno DS.

Fortunately I contributed to one a couple of years back.

I'll attach a version to this message as well as steer you to the cakewalk by bandlab forums where it's archived.

I'm on my laptop and I think this is the latest version though.

Roland Juno DS INS File. Here it is, updated March 2019

Someone got me started on this today and did most the of the heavy lifting so I completed the file today by cleaning out the illegal characters and adding Juno Di drum kits to the file. Here is what seems to be a good, working INS file for the Roland Juno DS complete with patches and drum kits. T...

discuss.cakewalk.com

Gary

Actually I DID find your INS file last week and got it correctly recognized in Cakewalk. Got all channels specified in Midi settings to select the Juno DS patches and the channel 10 for the Juno DS Drum pathes.

But that doesn't seem to be the problem. I'm missing some other step to prepare the DS to recognize that it's receiving MIDI data.

 

[MrDuck0409]

BTW, if I read you correctly, then you are not using the USB connection on the DS to connect to the computer?

Instead you have the DI and the DS on a MIDI chain from a different USB MIDI Interface?

If so the computer may be seeing only the first device in the chain. It won't recognize them as separate devices unless they are on individual USB MIDI ports.

Also setting up a daisy chain involves setting the xmit and recv channels on the individual devices and activating MIDI THRU on the first keyboard so the receiving keyboard will get everything mirrored from the computer.

This can be tricky to set up and you will not be able to play all 16 MIDI channels on both instruments simultaneously.

Use the USB connection on the DS and install the Roland drivers for it. That's my advice.

Gary

I appreciate the response, but all I really have is the laptop with Cakewalk ---> Roland UMOne midi interface ---> Midi IN on the Juno DS. Cakewalk has the Juno DS "ins" file to recognize the patches. I'm just trying to figure out how to get the Juno DS to receive properly.
The other thing that I thought would be simple as it is on the Juno DI is that the DI has a song player and can play midi files right from a USB drive, but although there's a USB memory port and a USB computer port, the USB drive is ignored.

 

[happyrat1]

First of all why do you insist on connecting to the MIDI DIN plugs on the DS?

The USB port works quite splendidly.

If you use DIN MIDI the computer does not recognize anything other than the interface. It's like trying to build a boat in a bottle.

Skip the middleman and see if that works before you ask if the DS works with MIDI.

Secondly, have you visited the MIDI options in the menus?

Thirdly, you DO realize that the connector marked IN connects to the OUT port and vice versa? I don't know how many newbies make that mistake every day.

I have no way of evaluating your MIDI knowledge other than by what you say and your first message sounded pretty clueless about how MIDI works.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

You're welcome for the INS file btw.

Gary

 

[MrDuck0409]

BTW, if I read you correctly, then you are not using the USB connection on the DS to connect to the computer?

Instead you have the DI and the DS on a MIDI chain from a different USB MIDI Interface?

If so the computer may be seeing only the first device in the chain. It won't recognize them as separate devices unless they are on individual USB MIDI ports.

Also setting up a daisy chain involves setting the xmit and recv channels on the individual devices and activating MIDI THRU on the first keyboard so the receiving keyboard will get everything mirrored from the computer.

This can be tricky to set up and you will not be able to play all 16 MIDI channels on both instruments simultaneously.

Use the USB connection on the DS and install the Roland drivers for it. That's my advice.

Gary

First of all why do you insist on connecting to the MIDI DIN plugs on the DS?

The USB port works quite splendidly.

If you use DIN MIDI the computer does not recognize anything other than the interface. It's like trying to build a boat in a bottle.

Skip the middleman and see if that works before you ask if the DS works with MIDI.

Secondly, have you visited the MIDI options in the menus?

Thirdly, you DO realize that the connector marked IN connects to the OUT port and vice versa? I don't know how many newbies make that mistake every day.

I have no way of evaluating your MIDI knowledge other than by what you say and your first message sounded pretty clueless about how MIDI works.

Gary

Gary,
I’ve been using synths with MIDI since 1988 and Cakewalk products back when they were 12ToneSystems. I’ve owned 3 Yamaha MDF2 midi file players and run them through an Ensoniq SQ1, a Roland XP10, an XP50, an MGS64, an XV1010, an Alesis NanoSynth, and most recently using laptops with Cakewalk Sonar studio and now Cakewalk by Bandlab on the Juno Di. The Di runs flawlessly both with midi files on a USB drive and from both a Windows7 laptop with Cakewalk Studio and on Windows10 with Cakewalk by Bandlab, using the Roland UM ONE MIDI interface.

I can do this on other synths and have done so for years. The issue I’m mostly having is seeing that the DS seems to be crippled with no obvious way to correctly set it to receive midi file data UNLESS I go into performance mode and set channels and patches manually.
So thank you for the “clueless” comment and not helping.

I may have to go and buy an actual USB cable (type1) which I don’t have , where as I’ve used standard USB-to-MIDI DIN interfaces for DECADES with no issues until I got this DS.

Duck

 

[MrDuck0409]

First of all why do you insist on connecting to the MIDI DIN plugs on the DS?

The USB port works quite splendidly.

If you use DIN MIDI the computer does not recognize anything other than the interface. It's like trying to build a boat in a bottle.

Skip the middleman and see if that works before you ask if the DS works with MIDI.

Secondly, have you visited the MIDI options in the menus?

Thirdly, you DO realize that the connector marked IN connects to the OUT port and vice versa? I don't know how many newbies make that mistake every day.

I have no way of evaluating your MIDI knowledge other than by what you say and your first message sounded pretty clueless about how MIDI works.

Gary

Sorry for the outburst.
Just sad to discover my DS doesn’t work as easy as my Di.
Duck

 

[MrDuck0409]

Ok. I dug around my "infinite box of cables" and found the correct USB cable to connect the DS and my laptop. I got most of the other settings for Cakewalk (set for Sonar and Mackie Control) so it now DOES play the midi files. Now I think the only thing I'm having issues with is getting Cakewalk to properly send the right patches, or re-write the midi files with change patch commands. Sorry about the previous rants.

 

[happyrat1]

Apology accepted.

What sort of MIDI files are they? Are they standard Type 1 or Type 2 GM files or are they WRK or some similar Cakewalk Format?

If you created the files in cakewalk and saved them in a DAW format they would default to whatever INS file voices that recorded them originally.

Regardless though, either way, if you are trying to play them with a "tweaked" set of patches then you'll have to edit each track one at a time and then save the corresponding file as a Cakewalk file, not a MID.

MID will always default to the same 128 patches and drumkits as they are an approximation determined by cakewalk to the closest similar voices and quite often it "guesses" wrongly.

The best thing to do when editing if you plan to export as MID is restrict your choice of patches to the 128 GM patches in its own bank on the Juno DS.

It will still sound different on different keyboards, but at least they will be consistent with whatever GM patches the manufacturer used.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, I have an extensive collection of GM files and use this program to play them on my DS88 just for the occasional bit of fun.

Download Midi Player 6.4 - MIDI with SoundFonts

Download SoundFont Midi Player 6.4 : Midi audio files player and real time midi synth combo useful for Soundblaster (Live, Audigy, X-fi).

codecpack.co

Believe me. The DS GM bank sounds a hell of a lot better than a Casio or Low End Yamaha bank.

If the file is properly saved as a GM MID file it should almost always sound better than a lot of lower end keyboards.

If you toggle the DAW CONTROL button on your DS you'll notice the unit switching banks to different but similar GM voices.

And in the Global Menu MIDI settings make sure the USB connector is set to GENERIC.

Likewise make sure all MIDI controls are set to on (ie. bank select etc.)

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, I also run the original Cakewalk Home Studio from the 90's under wine in Linux as well as the bandlab version in a Virtual Machine.

If you have the original Cakewalk CD still check and install Virtual Jukebox.

It's a really nice little applet that plays a playlist of MID files without eating too many resources.

Gary

 

[MrDuck0409]

Okay, first of all they're Type 1 midi (.MID) files. From 1990 to about 2010 I was working in mostly GM (GM and GM2) files. Back in the 90's I ran with a Roland Xp10 synth, a Roland MGS64 Sound module, and Cakewalk in Windows 3.1 and an .INS files that properly address the Xp10 and MGS64, but mostly playing GM midi files. (I also did some files in GS patches as well.)

When I got my Juno DI, I got the proper .INS file loaded in Cakewalk and I could address ALL the sounds on the Di. I have around 400 files that I perform with mostly in Juno Di specific sounds and maybe about 100 GM files that sounded "good enough" to use without modification and left them in GM.

On other Midi files that other musicians have created in GM, I edited the Sysx bank in the file, removed the GM/GS resets, and inserted patch change commands at the beginning of each track to use Di-specific patches.

They were tested through playback from the Cakewalk on the laptop to the Di, using either Performance 063 for addressing ALL the sounds or Performance 064 to do General Midi. Hence, I was able to put these files on USB drives and use the Song Player on the Di and play them out and have them sound the same way as though I was playing them through Cakewalk. I'd go to each gig with PAIRS of mulitple USB drives (I ran with duplicates in case I had a corrupted file on one of them) and play for hours. (The Juno Di only recognizes the first 99 files on the drive.)

I'm probably not going to gig with the DS as it would require me dragging along a laptop instead of just being able to carry a small bag of USB drives. But I want to compose, arrange, and record using the DS.

Just for comparison, I took and rearranged a shared MIDI file of the theme from Schindler's list, recorded using GM sounds on the Juno Di and here's what it sounds like:

https://soundcloud.com/user-865753557%2Fschindlers-list-original-orchestral-version
Now I took the same file and completely changed it around as a full synth version AND using ONLY Juno Di specific patches and recorded it. This is from the Di:

https://soundcloud.com/user-865753557%2Ftheme-from-schindlers-list
The intent is that I want to have VERY unique sounds and not be limited to the GM (or even GM2) sound set.

So yeah, I know my way around MIDI, I just haven't figured out all the proper buttons and settings to change on the DS so I can do exactly what I've done for the last few years on the Di.

The DS is neat, but the manuals aren't all that helpful in figuring out how to do with it what I want. I had to burrow through Roland's website to get far enough so that at least I can get the midi files to play (although incorrectly at the moment).

So now you know where I'm coming from.

 

[happyrat1]

Well by definition MIDI 1 and MIDI 2 files are limited to the GM, or XG or GS soundsets so the only solution I could offer is to record the files in WRK or CWP or some other Cakewalk Format and play them directly from the sequencer in Cakewalk.

If you need more information on the DS I'd advise asking over at the Roland Clan Forums and you already know where the Cakewalk Forums are.

Roland Clan Forums - Index page

Good luck with your project

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, if you never got the DIN MIDI working again, did you ever consider one of the cables or one of the ports could be defective?

I'd suggest running some basic tests.

You can google those.

Gary

 

[MrDuck0409]

BTW, if you never got the DIN MIDI working again, did you ever consider one of the cables or one of the ports could be defective?

I'd suggest running some basic tests.

You can google those.

Gary

The DS just came back from the shop to repair the Mic In potentiometer and all ports were tested. The MIDI cable is okay because I swap back and forth with my Di.

 

[MrDuck0409]

Well by definition MIDI 1 and MIDI 2 files are limited to the GM, or XG or GS soundsets so the only solution I could offer is to record the files in WRK or CWP or some other Cakewalk Format and play them directly from the sequencer in Cakewalk.

If you need more information on the DS I'd advise asking over at the Roland Clan Forums and you already know where the Cakewalk Forums are.

Roland Clan Forums - Index page

Good luck with your project

Gary

WHAT? Midi 1 and midi 2 are limited to GM/XG/GS? Um no. At least I know midi type 1 files are NOT.

I use type 1midi files and use them OUTSIDE of the GM spec. They can address patches unique to specific synths, as demonstrated by yourself by creating an INS file specifically for the DS for Cakewalk.

All GM/GS/XG midi files are type 1 or type 2, but not all type 1 or type 2 files are GM/GS/XG only. I got the files to prove it (and the recordings I posted above).

Respectfully,

Duck

 

[happyrat1]

Only if you are sending SysEx commands in the stream.

Manufacturers these days are dropping SysEx commands like hot potatoes.

And even then, those files were device specific.

A truly portable, generic MID file is system agnostic.

Gary

 

[MrDuck0409]

Only if you are sending SysEx commands in the stream.

Manufacturers these days are dropping SysEx commands like hot potatoes.

And even then, those files were device specific.

A truly portable, generic MID file is system agnostic.

Gary

I know that's the intent of General MIDI, however, I'm well beyond that. So why again would one need an INS file if you weren't going to use synth-specific tones?

Again, this is a bit frustrating as I've been able to address the 1100+ sounds on the DI with no problem using Cakewalk, saving as Midi Type 1 files and running them directly from the song player in the correct Performance settings.

Now it's like I have to start from scratch.