Source for hardware specs on DS61

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Does anybody have a reference source for the DS unit, such as impedance and range for each of the jacks on the back? Expected normal polarity for the Hold Pedal and on/off portion of the Control Pedal jacks? Expected analog input parameter/rage for the variable portion of the Control Pedal jack (Ohms, Impedance, digital 0-127)? It appears that the Control Pedal TRS jack set up so that the Tip is used for the on/off signal (based on the DP-2 pedal hardware), and the Ring for the analog input (assuming the Sleeve is gnd/common.) Does that make sense?

Thanks for any info you can provide. I really looked hard to find this info, but none of the documentation or website or web searches don't seem to have it.

As an aside question, might it be possible to build a splitter box that could provide the Control Pedal jack with inputs from both an on/off switch pedal and an analog input pedal? It appears that one might be able to have both functions available, hardware-wise, although the software probably only supports one function at a time. But both could be available and hence select-able.

 

[happyrat1]

I used a Roland EV5 controller pedal with my DS88 as well as an M-Audio Sustain Pedal set to opposite polarity.

As far as impedance levels go, I had the outputs driving a Mackie Mixer without a problem.

You have both pedal jacks so why on Earth would you need to shoehorn two pedals into one jack?

Gary

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Thanks! I just don't recall ever having a piece of gear that didn't have the specs for those kinds of things. Even most consumer electronics have that information available. You'd think it would be especially important on pro audio equipment.

As a fer-instance, the EXT INPUT jack, "connect your external player or audio device here." I've seen various posts with folks having to use an impedance matcher to make the noise go away. At least if I had a spec I could guesstimate whether my phone headphone jack would work correctly. Mentioning the HOLD PEDAL polarity would have been nice, at least that one is a 50/50 chance. And I suppose not giving any information on using an expression pedal range limits you to buying the EV5 unless you're brave.
("Use only the specified expression pedal (EV-5; sold separately). By connecting any other expression pedals, you risk causing malfunction and/or damage to the unit.")

As far as inputs, let's face it; using the modulation lever to change the rotary speaker effect speed isn't exactly optimal when playing bass with one hand and piano with the other. And I can't get my knee up that far any more. With the second on/off pedal I have coming, hopefully I'll be able to mire through the muck and try to figure out how to make it work for that in the Control Pedal jack (although I'm not actually hopeful.) Assigning a knob to do that on/off function, actually referred to in the manual, is even less accessible when playing. But it would be nice to be able to use Hold, change the speed, AND use expression at the same time. But at this price point that's probably just dreaming.

 

[happyrat1]

Standard line level impedance is ~10 mVpp anywhere from 10 Kohm to 100 Kohms.

At least that's pretty much the industry's accepted standard.

If I recall correctly isn't there a trimmer pot next to the input jack or a switch to match impedance with the source?

The mic input accepted a standard cardioid mic which operates around levels near 2 mVpp.

I never used the line level input, but I believe it can handle anything between 10 mVpp and 2 Vpp or the output of most earbud jacks.

If your source is coming in too hot then it WILL distort.

As for the EV-5? It only cost me $70 CDN which made it a no-brainer, not an act of cowardice.

I never took mine apart and sold it with the keyboard so I couldn't give you any numbers now.

That's pretty much all I can give you off the top of my head.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, the line input, if it lacks a trimmer o;n the back, may have one internally that can be adjusted.

I'm pretty sure they are using some sort of FET at the input stage with megs of impedance.

Gary

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Thanks! I know that the values are pretty much as expected for the expected ones, it's just still odd that the info isn't somewhere.

The sensitivity control on the back is for the mic input. I just had to turn my phone way down to get it to work decently.

I got the new pedal today, set the polarity on it based on the one for the Hold port, I guessed at a bunch of things to see it about toggling the ROtary speaker MFX up and down. Much as expected, I couldn't figure out the secret handshake to get that to work.

The closest I got was to get the effect to speed up when the pedal was depressed by setting the pedal function to Aftertouch and the Effect to the same CC number. I found a post on it that said to try that. But the Speed parameter never went from Slow to Fast on the display, and as soon as I'd take my foot off of it, the effect slowed back down immediately. Which makes sense thinking about what Aftertouch means. Okay I guess, but not very practical on a song where it changes once and stays there.

I didn't find a MIDI Control number for that kind of parameter (speaker speed.) But there are a lot of other ones to check.

I'll probably e better off making some sort of mechanical device to toggle the lever instead. Maybe some fishing line down to a homemade pedal below, with a spring in line so I don't break anything. At least I've got a spare pedal now.

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

DUH!!!!!!! A foot switch!!!

Uh, nevermind..... I just wonder if I need something with some diodes to keep it from spiking.

 

[happyrat1]

Email Roland and ask them directly.

You'll get an answer in a month or two.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

Just remember for future reference, Yamaha and Roland use reverse polarity pedals. Everyone else uses Normally Opened foot switches.

Y&R use normally closed.

With Roland and Yamaha it's usually a good idea to buy the factory pedals.

Gary

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

I got an aftermarket latching switch for the Leslie thing, seems to work OK using the Control Pedal jack. I can trigger it with both the pedal and the effect set to either Modulation or Aftertouch. There's a few other undocumented MIDi Control Numbers I might try yet, but as far as I can tell none of them "latch."

Although I'm half tempted to open up the body and see if I could piggy-back on the Modulation lever contacts and use a momentary to make it shift. Odd that there's a lever that toggles it but you can't do it otherwise.

 

[happyrat1]

Got a schematic for that pedal anywhere?

What’s the make and model number?

Gary.

 

[happyrat1]

BTW, mechanical latching pedals are not the industry standard really.

They're all momentary contact type and latching is handled by the keyboard firmware.

Not 100% of the time, but it's more or less an industry standard excluding a few oddball brands.

Gary

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Sorry for the delay, had a sub guitar player and had to learn 21 new songs.

That and I've just kind of given up on the DS; using the Modulation setting worked great; well, until I did a split, and then it also brought the bass split in and out. Dang. Back to Aftertouch. The latching switch I found is a generic used for Marshall guitar amps (same exact switch, no M label), for clean/dirty settings. I don't see how using a latching switch would be any different than having an expression pedal and leaving it at zero volume. (At first I typed full volume, but apparently not for R and Ys.)

Still mystified that the mod lever can do something, but there's no way to do it directly with a pedal and get the same results. But I don't understand how MIDI doesn't have a standard command for rotary brake and speed, either. They had a lot of Hammonds/Leslies being used in the middle of the last century when it was being developed! lol

I'm back to thinking I'll just make a lexan piece that rocks on a strip of velcro, just above the leftmost keys, tied to a piece of fishing line to 'tug' on the modulation lever when you tap on it. A similar setup works great on the Casio. Cheaper than a $2600 Korg. But at least I could probably use that, I suppose.

Thanks for the great advice, as always!

 

[happyrat1]

Check the nrpn codes. There may be Leslie FX in there.

The Marshall pedal should work if it's a TS plug.

Gary