Still haven't found what I'm looking for!

[JimDavis]

It seems like that U2 song was written with me and my keyboard search in mind...

Wow time flies by... My last post here on this issue was dated as Nov. 4th, 2017.
Geez, I was only a 59 yr old beginner then and now I am a 67 yr old who already forgot a little of whatever I knew at that age....

In any case, I am still looking for a keyboard to do what I want to do at home just to please myself and kill some time.
Also, my budget for whole setup (one keyboard+2 monitors+pedal+stand+mic+throne) should be within $5,000 max...

My opinions regarding what I want or think regarding certain keyboards didn't change as a stubborn old man.
Plus not knowing what the hell I am doing helped in that manner.

I am looking for a keyboard that is loaded with, out-of-this-world type of sounds plus must have enough memory for more loadable sound packages of that type.

While new and sophisticated technology impresses me on a keyboard I also would like it to be somewhat simple enough for me to be able to figure it out without getting a 4 year MIT degree.

For example how KORG Kronos designed their drum accompany with just a simple push of a button impressed me as I watched on YouTube videos. Also I like Karma even though Korg's keyboard design look, is a little bit bland as a high-tech keyboard, but still, sometimes simplicity is your friend. I remember from my old M1 Workstation.
Cons for Kronos is some of the screen tabs designed at so minuscule scale. Forget being able to touch them correctly on first try, it is even hard to see what it says on it with my old eyes.

I like the look of Roland 6 or 7...and even their little brother of FA-06 and 07... They claim to be the most user friendly models of workstations out there. Don't know if it's true or not...

I like the quality look of Montage and some of the sounds are really good but not as user friendly as I wanted and needed it to be.

My list of consideration excludes the following at all cost:
- No arrangers.... (They feel too much of a tis-tak, tis-tak to me) I feel like one of those guys who were hired to make music at low budget wedding parties who're playing Bossa Nova... Even if the arranger is a Genos... I still feel the same towards arrangers.
- No synths with keys designed for the fingers of a 4 yr old kid.
- No synths with buttons instead of regular black/white keys.
- No weighted piano keys... My old arthritic fingers can only handle synth keys...
- No desktop synth that I'll need a controller and maybe a computer to do what I want to accomplish.

I am not going on stage or sign a record deal. I just want to move my fingers over the keys and hear some sort of music I'd like to hear when I am getting a massage or you can hear at a scene of a sci-fi movie or at one of those Ibiza dance parties where a DJ entertains thousands of youngsters jumping up and down.

Any ideas, recommendations...

 

[Biggles]

Yeah.

You need two keyboards.

A Roland 07 on the lower tier and a Deepmind 12 on the upper tier.

An On-Stage two tier stand.

A small mixer and powered Speakers of your choice.

 

[delaware dave]

Think out of the box (you were in the military so it should be easy). What about a simple midi module that is easy to program and midi it to the controller of your choice? Maybe a yamaha motif rack midied to the keyboard of your choice. This separates the sounds from the keyboard. This way you get a keyboard that you like and a sound module that you like. They are coupled together by one simple midi cord.

 

[Cariboux2]

It seems like that U2 song was written with me and my keyboard search in mind...

Wow time flies by... My last post here on this issue was dated as Nov. 4th, 2017.
Geez, I was only a 59 yr old beginner then and now I am a 67 yr old who already forgot a little of whatever I knew at that age....

In any case, I am still looking for a keyboard to do what I want to do at home just to please myself and kill some time.
Also, my budget for whole setup (one keyboard+2 monitors+pedal+stand+mic+throne) should be within $5,000 max...

My opinions regarding what I want or think regarding certain keyboards didn't change as a stubborn old man.
Plus not knowing what the hell I am doing helped in that manner.

I am looking for a keyboard that is loaded with, out-of-this-world type of sounds plus must have enough memory for more loadable sound packages of that type.

While new and sophisticated technology impresses me on a keyboard I also would like it to be somewhat simple enough for me to be able to figure it out without getting a 4 year MIT degree.

For example how KORG Kronos designed their drum accompany with just a simple push of a button impressed me as I watched on YouTube videos. Also I like Karma even though Korg's keyboard design look, is a little bit bland as a high-tech keyboard, but still, sometimes simplicity is your friend. I remember from my old M1 Workstation.
Cons for Kronos is some of the screen tabs designed at so minuscule scale. Forget being able to touch them correctly on first try, it is even hard to see what it says on it with my old eyes.

I like the look of Roland 6 or 7...and even their little brother of FA-06 and 07... They claim to be the most user friendly models of workstations out there. Don't know if it's true or not...

I like the quality look of Montage and some of the sounds are really good but not as user friendly as I wanted and needed it to be.

My list of consideration excludes the following at all cost:
- No arrangers.... (They feel too much of a tis-tak, tis-tak to me) I feel like one of those guys who were hired to make music at low budget wedding parties who're playing Bossa Nova... Even if the arranger is a Genos... I still feel the same towards arrangers.
- No synths with keys designed for the fingers of a 4 yr old kid.
- No synths with buttons instead of regular black/white keys.
- No weighted piano keys... My old arthritic fingers can only handle synth keys...
- No desktop synth that I'll need a controller and maybe a computer to do what I want to accomplish.

I am not going on stage or sign a record deal. I just want to move my fingers over the keys and hear some sort of music I'd like to hear when I am getting a massage or you can hear at a scene of a sci-fi movie or at one of those Ibiza dance parties where a DJ entertains thousands of youngsters jumping up and down.

Any ideas, recommendations...

I wouldn't outright dismiss an arranger like the Genos. I have a Yamaha DGX-670 with watered-down arranger capabilities and it allows for a massive amount of programming for original drum, bass, etc, content. Also, it sounds amazing.

I had felt the same as you, but when this sent on sale for $880, I bit. I still have my old Yamaha EP, but that's for the road. Arrangers can be great if you want to write a song on the fly.

Remember, the workstations - as far as I know - do not have the ability to change chords for bass lines when you change what you play. So everything must be programmed ahead of time

Just some friendly input from someone who used to have similar feelings about arrangers. Now, if I had the money, I'd get a Genos.

 

[happyrat1]

I've collected a significant number of synths in my life and I can say that today's shiniest newest toy can easily become tomorrow's dust bunny.

I've owned literally dozens of synths over the years and swopped and traded them like bubblegum cards for decades.

Somewhere along the way you adopt a few precious babies which you'll treasure forever and freeze in amber if you can. The rest find their way to the classifieds on craigslist or languishing in the repair shop.

You are trying to predict the "wow" factor of your next purchase based on the subjective feelings of others. This is a fool's errand. Just do your homework, pull the trigger on your favorite workstation, and learn to love the beast, warts and all.

Here's what 30 years of horse trading has led me to be happiest with.

 

[LukeB50]

I would recommend you check out the Korg Pa5X.
I have had mine for around one year now and I just love it.

 

[Brian007]

Hi,

Given up on arrangers, Cubase 15 Artist will now do everything I need as I dont play live
just record for my own pleaser. The follow chord option will allow a patern from Cubase to follow any chords you put in and will follow in real time too.

brian007

 

[Cariboux2]

I've collected a significant number of synths in my life and I can say that today's shiniest newest toy can easily become tomorrow's dust bunny.

I've owned literally dozens of synths over the years and swopped and traded them like bubblegum cards for decades.

Somewhere along the way you adopt a few precious babies which you'll treasure forever and freeze in amber if you can. The rest find their way to the classifieds on craigslist or languishing in the repair shop.

You are trying to predict the "wow" factor of your next purchase based on the subjective feelings of others. This is a fool's errand. Just do your homework, pull the trigger on your favorite workstation, and learn to love the beast, warts and all.

Here's what 30 years of horse trading has led me to be happiest with.

This is is crazy. The basics of this set-up are almost the EXACT same thing that a decade of rearranging has led ME to as well, especially the last steps.

I gave up with trying to deal with audio latency and instead of getting yet another expensive audio interface, I got the Tascam DP-24SD.

Everything is run through Eris 5 speakers as well. And the computer is set up in parallel and mainly used for drum sequencing, effects, and mastery, etc.

At the earlier stages, I have a Yamaha DXG-670 and guitar and/or bass, as well as a Novation Summit, fed directly into the Tascam, and then I have a Moog Grandmother, Prophet '08, micro-Korg, and Waldorf Streichfett fed into a mini mixer which feeds into a Big Sky Reverb before hitting the Tascam.

It's reassuring to see someone else happy with a similar set-up! With the drums (EZ Drummer), I almost felt like I was shipping coals to Newcastle, but it works better for me. And, serendipitously, I found that the sound from the Tascam was far superior than that from the Focusrite interface.

 

[Soryt]

Hi Jim,
You shouldn't have thrown away the Genos back then and delved into the operating system; you could have easily made music like you describe. Every keyboard or synthesizer these days has so many possibilities that you have to learn the operating system. After 20 + years of Yamaha (from Tyros, 2, 3, 4, 5, G1 to Genos 2), I also got a Korg Pa5 to see and experience how it works compared to the Yamaha in practice. At first, I was quite disappointed with how complex the PA was, but after a year and a half, I've become very attached to the sound compared to the Genos. I can't live without these two "top machines" now. For jamming with other musicians, I have the Yamaha YC61, which is easy to use and has great stage sounds: pianos, Rhodes, and Hammond. (It can also be used with an iPad using plug-ins via a USB cable.)
Best regards , Arno

 

[anotherscott]

I am looking for a keyboard that is loaded with, out-of-this-world type of sounds

Is this in addition to "in this world" types of sounds (like authentic sounding pianos, organs, guitars, orchestral instruments like strings and horns, etc.)? Or are you exclusively interested in "non-natural"/"non-acoustic" kinds of sounds?

(I also wondered whether you might have used the phrase "out of this world" simply to mean "excellent" which used to be a pretty common usage, but I figured you probably meant it more literally with your subsequent reference to sci-fi movies!)

plus must have enough memory for more loadable sound packages of that type.

I wouldn't focus too much on the availability of loadable sound packages, nor defining the word "enough" here. Couldn't a board that has tons of what you're looking for be better than a board where you would have to buy a bunch of expansions to get what you want? Or looked at differently, would a hypothetical board with 200 built-in sounds and room to load 800 more really necessarily be better than a board that has 900 built-in sounds with an ability to load only 100 more? It seems like a bit of an arbitrary request, with the focus on a technical capability as opposed to on a musical goal. Plus, since we're talking in general about digital synths, they're going to let you edit/create and save your own sounds anyway. Plus you always have other options for sound expansions, e.g. you could add an iPad which has tons of synth apps. In fact, in the long run, you might even find that integration of external sounds is more valuable to you than the availability of additional sounds you can load into the keyboard. (Especially since you're not looking at transporting/gigging, where having everything self-contained can be of particular advantage.)

OTOH, if for a particular board, there are sound packages you've come across that you really like (as opposed to a generic request for "ability to load more"), then it makes sense to me that that could influence your choice. (And as a corollary of that, if no particularly appealing add-on for a board exists today, there is no assurance that such a thing ever will, regardless of how much expansion space a keyboard has.)

For example how KORG Kronos designed their drum accompany with just a simple push of a button impressed me as I watched on YouTube videos.

Okay, so there is "hidden" additional valuable information here... you want something with drum/rhythm accompaniment. This is an area where boards can vary a lot.

Also I like Karma even though Korg's keyboard design look, is a little bit bland as a high-tech keyboard, but still, sometimes simplicity is your friend. I remember from my old M1 Workstation.
Cons for Kronos is some of the screen tabs designed at so minuscule scale. Forget being able to touch them correctly on first try, it is even hard to see what it says on it with my old eyes.

Korg's Nautilus gives you most of what's in a Kronos, with an interface that you might find easier to read/manipulate. However one of the things you lose is KARMA, it has more traditional arp functions instead.

I like the look of Roland 6 or 7...and even their little brother of FA-06 and 07... They claim to be the most user friendly models of workstations out there. Don't know if it's true or not...

You presumably mean Fantom 6 or 7 (currently in EX versions)... and their little brothers are Fantom-06 and 07. FA-06 and 07 are different boards entirely, older models that have almost nothing in common with any of those Fantoms.

The big brothers here are more user friendly than the little brothers. The little brothers squeeze the same layouts onto a smaller screen making it less easy to operate, which is going to bring you back to some of what you didn't like about the Kronos screen (which resulted from the same issue... squeezing an interface designed for the larger OASYS screen into a smaller physical space.) The additional knobs for synth parameters and the additional LED indicators around controls to indicate current values also improve the ease of use on the big brothers. Those EX models also include additional synth capabilities not available in the junior models... n/zyme which could be good for some new "out of this world" sounds and the ACB synth models which do a particularly good job at emulating vintage analog Roland synths.

I like the quality look of Montage and some of the sounds are really good but not as user friendly as I wanted and needed it to be.

I don't know which Montage you looked at, but I'd say the newer Montage M is a bit easier to use than the original Montage was. They incorporated some more Fantom-like functionality, like having a dedicated VA synth with a related workflow for those kinds of sounds, and context-sensitive knobs beneath the screen. The new additional screen over the main knobs also aids ease of use.

- No arrangers....

One advantage of an arranger is in their drum accompaniment capabilities. I sometimes do gigs without a drummer, and I usually use a Korg PA1000 (as one of two boards) and I don't use it as an arranger at all *except* for its drums. Other than that, I'm using it the same way I'd use the MODX I often gig with. The point is, you don't have to use the parts of a board that do things you don't need. Nevertheless, I'm not recommending an arranger here, just because their "synth" functions are limited, they are more about reproducing commonly used sounds than they are about creating your own unique soundscapes, which it sounds to me might be more where some of your interest lies.

All of which brings me to this. If I had to choose one board based on what you've said, it would probably be Fantom EX. Oddly, in part, because it has a built in rhythm pattern function that works much like the drums functions of an arranger, with easy front panel/screen controls for not just starting and stopping the drums but also switching among variations. It's not implemented quite to the extent that you can find on arrangers, but it's more than you can find on most non-arranger boards. Also, if you do grow into integrating with sounds from a computer, it has some nice features for that, including integration with Mainstage (for sounds) and assorted DAWs (for sequencing). And as already alluded to, it's a strong choice for synth sounds and for (relative) ease of use.

Nothing will give you everything, but that looks pretty close to me. Kronos has KARMA, Kronos/Nautilus have a more traditional linear sequencer, Kronos/Nautilus/Montage include FM synthesis, you'll always find something in this-but-not-that, but I think Fantom EX may best fit what you're looking for, including maybe a higher "fun" factor than the others.

What about a simple midi module that is easy to program and midi it to the controller of your choice? Maybe a yamaha motif rack midied to the keyboard of your choice.

I wouldn't call a motif rack easy to program. Like most of the small (e.g. 1U) rack modules that used to be popular, tons of menu diving on a tiny screen.

 

[JimDavis]

Is this in addition to "in this world" types of sounds (like authentic sounding pianos, organs, guitars, orchestral instruments like strings and horns, etc.)? Or are you exclusively interested in "non-natural"/"non-acoustic" kinds of sounds?

(I also wondered whether you might have used the phrase "out of this world" simply to mean "excellent" which used to be a pretty common usage, but I figured you probably meant it more literally with your subsequent reference to sci-fi movies!)


I wouldn't focus too much on the availability of loadable sound packages, nor defining the word "enough" here. Couldn't a board that has tons of what you're looking for be better than a board where you would have to buy a bunch of expansions to get what you want? Or looked at differently, would a hypothetical board with 200 built-in sounds and room to load 800 more really necessarily be better than a board that has 900 built-in sounds with an ability to load only 100 more? It seems like a bit of an arbitrary request, with the focus on a technical capability as opposed to on a musical goal. Plus, since we're talking in general about digital synths, they're going to let you edit/create and save your own sounds anyway. Plus you always have other options for sound expansions, e.g. you could add an iPad which has tons of synth apps. In fact, in the long run, you might even find that integration of external sounds is more valuable to you than the availability of additional sounds you can load into the keyboard. (Especially since you're not looking at transporting/gigging, where having everything self-contained can be of particular advantage.)

OTOH, if for a particular board, there are sound packages you've come across that you really like (as opposed to a generic request for "ability to load more"), then it makes sense to me that that could influence your choice. (And as a corollary of that, if no particularly appealing add-on for a board exists today, there is no assurance that such a thing ever will, regardless of how much expansion space a keyboard has.)


Okay, so there is "hidden" additional valuable information here... you want something with drum/rhythm accompaniment. This is an area where boards can vary a lot.


Korg's Nautilus gives you most of what's in a Kronos, with an interface that you might find easier to read/manipulate. However one of the things you lose is KARMA, it has more traditional arp functions instead.


You presumably mean Fantom 6 or 7 (currently in EX versions)... and their little brothers are Fantom-06 and 07. FA-06 and 07 are different boards entirely, older models that have almost nothing in common with any of those Fantoms.

The big brothers here are more user friendly than the little brothers. The little brothers squeeze the same layouts onto a smaller screen making it less easy to operate, which is going to bring you back to some of what you didn't like about the Kronos screen (which resulted from the same issue... squeezing an interface designed for the larger OASYS screen into a smaller physical space.) The additional knobs for synth parameters and the additional LED indicators around controls to indicate current values also improve the ease of use on the big brothers. Those EX models also include additional synth capabilities not available in the junior models... n/zyme which could be good for some new "out of this world" sounds and the ACB synth models which do a particularly good job at emulating vintage analog Roland synths.


I don't know which Montage you looked at, but I'd say the newer Montage M is a bit easier to use than the original Montage was. They incorporated some more Fantom-like functionality, like having a dedicated VA synth with a related workflow for those kinds of sounds, and context-sensitive knobs beneath the screen. The new additional screen over the main knobs also aids ease of use.


One advantage of an arranger is in their drum accompaniment capabilities. I sometimes do gigs without a drummer, and I usually use a Korg PA1000 (as one of two boards) and I don't use it as an arranger at all *except* for its drums. Other than that, I'm using it the same way I'd use the MODX I often gig with. The point is, you don't have to use the parts of a board that do things you don't need. Nevertheless, I'm not recommending an arranger here, just because their "synth" functions are limited, they are more about reproducing commonly used sounds than they are about creating your own unique soundscapes, which it sounds to me might be more where some of your interest lies.

All of which brings me to this. If I had to choose one board based on what you've said, it would probably be Fantom EX. Oddly, in part, because it has a built in rhythm pattern function that works much like the drums functions of an arranger, with easy front panel/screen controls for not just starting and stopping the drums but also switching among variations. It's not implemented quite to the extent that you can find on arrangers, but it's more than you can find on most non-arranger boards. Also, if you do grow into integrating with sounds from a computer, it has some nice features for that, including integration with Mainstage (for sounds) and assorted DAWs (for sequencing). And as already alluded to, it's a strong choice for synth sounds and for (relative) ease of use.

Nothing will give you everything, but that looks pretty close to me. Kronos has KARMA, Kronos/Nautilus have a more traditional linear sequencer, Kronos/Nautilus/Montage include FM synthesis, you'll always find something in this-but-not-that, but I think Fantom EX may best fit what you're looking for, including maybe a higher "fun" factor than the others.



I wouldn't call a motif rack easy to program. Like most of the small (e.g. 1U) rack modules that used to be popular, tons of menu diving on a tiny screen.

Very good analysis and questions... I am sorry for not explaining more clearly in my earlier post/s.

What I meant with "Out of this world sounds" phrase is that I am looking to the sounds that does not normally comes out from a musical instrument in the real world. A sound that no other regular piano, accordion, sax, or acoustic guitar kind of instruments could make... For example Korg's "Phrasing Choir" sound and stuff like many other Pad sounds.

Also I am interested in keyboards that offers a lot of arpeggiated combos that could be played with one or 2 finger press of the left hand. Since I am not a real piano player all I have is 4-5 basic chords knowledge.
I can hit a C or Dm or F chord with left hand but if melody requires a Cmaj13 chord, I will need a 15 minute brake to figure it out in the middle of playing.

So, I am also looking a keyboard that with will make a few single key stroke sound like a nice sophisticated, rich rhythmic sound. Basically an instrument that does most of the work rather than the player and it does without requiring 3-4 hr pre-programming session to achieve that.

I may be unrealistic or sounding very strange with my expectations from a keyboard so I assume at this point all I can do get one and try the darn thing out for 5-6 weeks and if it doesn't meet my expectations return and try another one.

Which I'll be doing at this point.

Today I am ordering a Kronos 3 which will be here tomorrow and I'll begin to dig into it to see how it'll make me feel. After 4-5 weeks if I am in love, then I'll have an attractive, young mistress in my music room as my wife puts it.

If not, then K3 goes back to GC and hellooo to Fantom 6 EX...

Let's see what time will show?

And, thank you a lot for your very intuitive response...

Happy New Year to you and your loved ones!

 

[JimDavis]

LAST MINUTE UPDATE:

I came to my senses I guess and ordered a Fantom EX 6...
Will be here tomorrow!
Now to the ordering monitors and stand and throne... Then I'll be a king, right?????

 

[happyrat1]

I like to think of my studio as the bridge of a starship

 

[Biggles]

I like to think of my studio as the bridge of a starship

Too much wacky baccy Gary.

I always imagined your setup as more akin to that of a Disaster Area gig.

 

[Cariboux2]

Is this in addition to "in this world" types of sounds (like authentic sounding pianos, organs, guitars, orchestral instruments like strings and horns, etc.)? Or are you exclusively interested in "non-natural"/"non-acoustic" kinds of sounds?

(I also wondered whether you might have used the phrase "out of this world" simply to mean "excellent" which used to be a pretty common usage, but I figured you probably meant it more literally with your subsequent reference to sci-fi movies!)


I wouldn't focus too much on the availability of loadable sound packages, nor defining the word "enough" here. Couldn't a board that has tons of what you're looking for be better than a board where you would have to buy a bunch of expansions to get what you want? Or looked at differently, would a hypothetical board with 200 built-in sounds and room to load 800 more really necessarily be better than a board that has 900 built-in sounds with an ability to load only 100 more? It seems like a bit of an arbitrary request, with the focus on a technical capability as opposed to on a musical goal. Plus, since we're talking in general about digital synths, they're going to let you edit/create and save your own sounds anyway. Plus you always have other options for sound expansions, e.g. you could add an iPad which has tons of synth apps. In fact, in the long run, you might even find that integration of external sounds is more valuable to you than the availability of additional sounds you can load into the keyboard. (Especially since you're not looking at transporting/gigging, where having everything self-contained can be of particular advantage.)

OTOH, if for a particular board, there are sound packages you've come across that you really like (as opposed to a generic request for "ability to load more"), then it makes sense to me that that could influence your choice. (And as a corollary of that, if no particularly appealing add-on for a board exists today, there is no assurance that such a thing ever will, regardless of how much expansion space a keyboard has.)


Okay, so there is "hidden" additional valuable information here... you want something with drum/rhythm accompaniment. This is an area where boards can vary a lot.


Korg's Nautilus gives you most of what's in a Kronos, with an interface that you might find easier to read/manipulate. However one of the things you lose is KARMA, it has more traditional arp functions instead.


You presumably mean Fantom 6 or 7 (currently in EX versions)... and their little brothers are Fantom-06 and 07. FA-06 and 07 are different boards entirely, older models that have almost nothing in common with any of those Fantoms.

The big brothers here are more user friendly than the little brothers. The little brothers squeeze the same layouts onto a smaller screen making it less easy to operate, which is going to bring you back to some of what you didn't like about the Kronos screen (which resulted from the same issue... squeezing an interface designed for the larger OASYS screen into a smaller physical space.) The additional knobs for synth parameters and the additional LED indicators around controls to indicate current values also improve the ease of use on the big brothers. Those EX models also include additional synth capabilities not available in the junior models... n/zyme which could be good for some new "out of this world" sounds and the ACB synth models which do a particularly good job at emulating vintage analog Roland synths.


I don't know which Montage you looked at, but I'd say the newer Montage M is a bit easier to use than the original Montage was. They incorporated some more Fantom-like functionality, like having a dedicated VA synth with a related workflow for those kinds of sounds, and context-sensitive knobs beneath the screen. The new additional screen over the main knobs also aids ease of use.


One advantage of an arranger is in their drum accompaniment capabilities. I sometimes do gigs without a drummer, and I usually use a Korg PA1000 (as one of two boards) and I don't use it as an arranger at all *except* for its drums. Other than that, I'm using it the same way I'd use the MODX I often gig with. The point is, you don't have to use the parts of a board that do things you don't need. Nevertheless, I'm not recommending an arranger here, just because their "synth" functions are limited, they are more about reproducing commonly used sounds than they are about creating your own unique soundscapes, which it sounds to me might be more where some of your interest lies.

All of which brings me to this. If I had to choose one board based on what you've said, it would probably be Fantom EX. Oddly, in part, because it has a built in rhythm pattern function that works much like the drums functions of an arranger, with easy front panel/screen controls for not just starting and stopping the drums but also switching among variations. It's not implemented quite to the extent that you can find on arrangers, but it's more than you can find on most non-arranger boards. Also, if you do grow into integrating with sounds from a computer, it has some nice features for that, including integration with Mainstage (for sounds) and assorted DAWs (for sequencing). And as already alluded to, it's a strong choice for synth sounds and for (relative) ease of use.

Nothing will give you everything, but that looks pretty close to me. Kronos has KARMA, Kronos/Nautilus have a more traditional linear sequencer, Kronos/Nautilus/Montage include FM synthesis, you'll always find something in this-but-not-that, but I think Fantom EX may best fit what you're looking for, including maybe a higher "fun" factor than the others.



I wouldn't call a motif rack easy to program. Like most of the small (e.g. 1U) rack modules that used to be popular, tons of menu diving on a tiny screen.

You mention that the Fantom EX had drum functions similar to that of an arranger. Does it also have a bass accompaniment that will change notes based on the chord you are playing - the way an arranger does?

 

[anotherscott]

Also I am interested in keyboards that offers a lot of arpeggiated combos that could be played with one or 2 finger press of the left hand. ... I am also looking a keyboard that with will make a few single key stroke sound like a nice sophisticated, rich rhythmic sound. Basically an instrument that does most of the work rather than the player and it does without requiring 3-4 hr pre-programming session to achieve that.

Ironically (since you said you don't want an arranger), what you describe here is basically exactly what arrangers were made for! But as I alluded to earlier, in terms of sounds, they are focussed on more traditional sounds/instrumentation than you are largely looking for. (Though Korg gives you more on-board sound editability than Yamaha does.)

So yes, I think you'd be looking at arps to give you that kind of functionality (or KARMA, on the Kronos). I don't have much experience there, however, so I'll leave it to others to delve into that topic further if desired. Including the possible topic of interest of how your initial Kronos choice would compare to your subsequent Fantom EX choice, when it comes to this particular capability.

You mention that the Fantom EX had drum functions similar to that of an arranger. Does it also have a bass accompaniment that will change notes based on the chord you are playing - the way an arranger does?

That again I think gets back to the arp functions that I don't have experience with.

BTW, here's a Fantom touchscreen image that shows the arranger-like drum pattern controls:

I have no knowledge, however, of how that might coordinate with bass or other LH-based accompaniment.

 

[Bouncingogre]

Hi Jim,
You shouldn't have thrown away the Genos back then and delved into the operating system; you could have easily made music like you describe. Every keyboard or synthesizer these days has so many possibilities that you have to learn the operating system. After 20 + years of Yamaha (from Tyros, 2, 3, 4, 5, G1 to Genos 2), I also got a Korg Pa5 to see and experience how it works compared to the Yamaha in practice. At first, I was quite disappointed with how complex the PA was, but after a year and a half, I've become very attached to the sound compared to the Genos. I can't live without these two "top machines" now. For jamming with other musicians, I have the Yamaha YC61, which is easy to use and has great stage sounds: pianos, Rhodes, and Hammond. (It can also be used with an iPad using plug-ins via a USB cable.)
Best regards , Arno

Totally agree with you.
I too am in the fortunate position of owning both the Pa5X and the Genos 2.
I honestly think there's very little that you can't achieve musically with time, effort and working outside the box.
Sure, there are endless combinations of Styles, Keyboard Sets and Pads, but it's mixing those to your own particular music that matters.
So don't discount an arranger is what I'm saying
My own take on it is that the keyboard is there to enjoy making music on. Not to dissect looking for faults real and imaginary at every turn.
Time learning these big arrangers and Synths thoroughly is repaid in better results. That means not only experimenting with them, but also studying and absorbing the manuals that come with them.

You can't just take them out of the box and expect instant results

 

[amwilburn]

The Kronos 3 is an amazing piece of kit!

But yes, as others have already stated, it sounds like an arranger like Pa5x/Genos2 would really do almost everything you need in 1 board, but to each his own.

As for arrangers sounding tis-tak-y (and in general arrangers are much simpler to figure out than workstations; although I believe Biggles is correct; that is you'd probably need 2 keyboards, the other one being a pure synth)

If you only need the sounds, not the drum beats, then NordStage would also do the trick (loads of free samples to boot)

But here is me using a Genos as a 'stage piano' (ie just voices and drums, no accompaniment) for approximately half of this video, the other half I do use accompaniment. There is no rule that you must use auto accompaniment
Pirates of the Caribbean

Here's another one where I use the Genos 2 not as an arranger, pretty much all played live left and right hand parts, with the exception being that marimba bridge section, where I have the "5-1,5-1,5-1,5-1" repeating section behind what I'm playing (and I could've done the same thing with a synth here with a loop, since the repeating pattern is in Ab, regardless of what chord I'm playing; however using an arranger was the only way I could chain all the voice changes into a pedal, so that my hands never have to leave the keys (which would stop the bass, as that's manually being played live
Axel F

Every other video I've seen of Axel F, they preprogram the bassline, either as an accompaniment style or prerecorded tracks, which leaves no room to improvise. For my version, I could improvise however I want (extra bar, extra sections, etc). Additionally, there are also loads of free downloadable samples on the Yamaha arrangers (on Korg too, if you're in Europe; not so much in Canada though)

Hope that helps?
Cheers,

Mark

 

[JimDavis]

Hi Jim,
You shouldn't have thrown away the Genos back then and delved into the operating system; you could have easily made music like you describe. Every keyboard or synthesizer these days has so many possibilities that you have to learn the operating system. After 20 + years of Yamaha (from Tyros, 2, 3, 4, 5, G1 to Genos 2), I also got a Korg Pa5 to see and experience how it works compared to the Yamaha in practice. At first, I was quite disappointed with how complex the PA was, but after a year and a half, I've become very attached to the sound compared to the Genos. I can't live without these two "top machines" now. For jamming with other musicians, I have the Yamaha YC61, which is easy to use and has great stage sounds: pianos, Rhodes, and Hammond. (It can also be used with an iPad using plug-ins via a USB cable.)
Best regards , Arno

Hey Arno, Bouncingore and few others who mentioned that I should give a second look to Genos type arrangers... Well, I did and wanted you to know I ordered a brand new Genos 2 arriving tomorrow.

The Fantom 6 EX, I ordered last week arrived damaged during the FedEx shipment and GC took it back!
So here comes G2...
Now should I get two studio monitors for it or just a single keyboard amp, since I am going to play at home and I like to hear the sounds as if I am hearing music from a high quality home stereo system while listening a CD or Vinyl?

 

[Soryt]

Absolutely 2 monitors, you miss to much with a single speaker.
i am using 2 small Tannoy Gold5 monitor speakers and they sound really great, coming from 2 8inch reveal monitors.
both connect with my Focusrite Scarlett 8I6 on my Pc , this combination gives best sound and recording possibilities
The Genos 2 is really the most amazing keyboard, but with the wrong settings you can ruin the sound (EQ) , and easy to program
good luck and a lot of fun with it