Still trouble setting up M-Audio ES88

Discussion in 'M-Audio Keyboards' started by woldsweather, May 27, 2008.

  1. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    after 4 months! I am now getting a piano out of it using Truepianos. Howver, I still have a time delay. I have downloaded asio4all, but when I switch to that I get no sound.
     
    woldsweather, May 27, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. woldsweather

    Terr-or Form

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    I'm not too literate with M Audio but I do know a bit about computer recording and some of the issues. It would help to know what kind of computer you are using, operating system, your sound card, any interfaces between your computer and hard gear as well as any soft synths and VST's you are using.

    Latency is an issue with anything and everything you connect - even gear that has an outboard DSP (Data Systems Processor - like on the MOTU, Mackie and Digidesign gear). Getting lower latency is usually just a few tweaks on your recording freq's but I wouldn't know where to begin unless I had more info on what you are running.
     
    Terr-or Form, May 27, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. woldsweather

    Terr-or Form

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    Okay, I just looked at some of your older posts. I think your latency issue could just be in the ASIO4ALL setup. Be sure to look at your Buffer size (or Buffer samples). The more buffers, the more latency. Problem is, too little might get you pops and cracks as your computer may not be fast enough to process the sampling rate.

    Is your hook up MIDI or USB? USB is slower than MIDI. Most people use USB over MIDI these days just because it's cheaper to connect to the computer. If you want to use your MIDI In/Out on your computer, you need some kind of interface (and the list here is almost endless). If you are working for instant response, excellent sound quality and possibly recording then an outboard interface with MIDI is the way to go.
     
    Terr-or Form, May 27, 2008
    #3
  4. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I'm using a Medion 8833 Quad Core Duo Processor with 3Gb RAM. The Sound card is Creatix SAA7131 Triple Capture device. Running Windows Vista Home Premium.

    I have no idea what soft synths are. I'm using Ableton Live 7 and TruePiano. I can get a piano sound from truepiano via Ableton using MME/Direct X drivers, but nothing when I switch to ASIO. No sound at all.
     
    woldsweather, May 28, 2008
    #4
  5. woldsweather

    Terr-or Form

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    When using ASIO, you need to set the buffer size. Also, make sure you are using the same sample rate (96khz, 48khz) on both your sound device and the program. Are you plugged directly into the sound card or do you have an outside interface like MOTU or Mackie Onyx?

    A soft synth is nothing more than a synth that is a program on your computer. For instance, the Korg Legacy Collection Digital. I'm thinking truepiano is a softsynth or software instrument.

    Your computer should be very capable of using smaller buffer sizes and thus less latency without as much tendency to produce pops and cracks. Again, check your ASIO settings and make sure you change the buffer size.
     
    Terr-or Form, May 28, 2008
    #5
  6. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    woldsweather, May 28, 2008
    #6
  7. woldsweather

    Skipp Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    11
    I downloaded the demo of Truepianos today. It has the same piano sample as my motif ES :D

    I really can't hear the difference... Truepianos maybe are a bit more "heavy" but that can easily be arranged by adding some low eq.

    Anyway... I selected Asio4all and it works perfectly... no tweaking needed.

    [​IMG]

    The only setup left is your midi input. so try looking at that
     
    Skipp, May 28, 2008
    #7
  8. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Well theres only one choice in the midi setup - the 88es and it's selected. If two of the other driver settings work but ASIO doesn't, it seems to me theres still something I need to set up. Is there somewhere else in Vista that has to be set to ASIO?
     
    woldsweather, May 28, 2008
    #8
  9. woldsweather

    Terr-or Form

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    On the second link you posted, on the bottom it says ASIO buffer size. 512 samples is sort of high. With the computer set up you have, you can probably bring this down a lot. Also, if you aren't getting any sound at all, it could be sample rate.

    I wish I had truepiano so I could mess around with the program settings myself. What I meant by both the sound device and the program was - your sound card is the device and true piano is the program.

    These type of problems are usually nothing more than finding all the correct settings in the right menus. Once you find them, then it isn't an issue anymore. I know this is frustrating as I still experience major frustrations just like this when recording into my computer with Cubase (I have to set up every instrument, their ins and outs, effect chains, etc.) so, I'm with ya. I'm going to go and see if I can find a copy of true piano (maybe they have a demo out) and see if I can figure this out.

    Edit: I just saw Sasryn's post. I'm still going to see if I can figure this out.
     
    Terr-or Form, May 28, 2008
    #9
  10. woldsweather

    Skipp Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    11
    OK... this MAY be a stupid question, but it happened to me the first time I started truepianos... Did you press the "START ENGINE" button? :D
     
    Skipp, May 29, 2008
    #10
  11. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Der...I haven't seen a Start Engine button so presumably not! Will have a look.
     
    woldsweather, May 29, 2008
    #11
  12. woldsweather

    Skipp Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    11
    Hehe...

    [​IMG]

    I hope that's your problem. Now hit those keys and record something for us :D
     
    Skipp, May 29, 2008
    #12
  13. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Hey , I've only been learning 6 months (and I'm 55!)
     
    woldsweather, May 29, 2008
    #13
  14. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire

    Sadly that didn't solve it - it opens up already started - i.e. with the start engine button depressed.
     
    woldsweather, May 29, 2008
    #14
  15. woldsweather

    Terr-or Form

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    Okay, this is an easy enough program and I think I understand what is going on.

    When I downloaded Truepiano to my normal internet computer, I had to use the soundcard drivers (i.e. DirectSound, Direct X, MME). When I used ASIO drivers - nothing. Same problem as woldsweather.

    When I put this program on my studio machine with an outboard DSP (namely, Mackie 400F firewire interface) - it worked right away. I was able to use ASIO4ALL and the Mackie ASIO drivers.

    Why Truepiano does this I have no idea. I have never had an issue with interoperability between different sound drivers - especially ASIO. The only thing I have ever encountered was different latency issues and ASIO is my driver of choice. Like woldsweather, my start engine was depressed as soon as I opened the program. If you are having latency issues, try configuring the bottom of the Audio/MIDI preferences. Use 44,100khz (unless you plan on recording. Then I would suggest maybe starting to purchase more studio equipment) and lowering the latency. Only lower the latency enough so you don't see any lag between your playing and sound. If you lower your latency too far, then you will get pops and cracks. By the way, that latency box is the same as buffer size.

    I know this is probably not the answer you wanted to hear but, this is the first time I have encountered it. It's not you or your computer. ASIO4ALL is an excellent driver. I think there is a programming overlook in Truepiano that doesn't work with ASIO as well as it should. Again, I know your frustration and sound drivers have come a long way. Eventually, like MIDI, maybe they will standardize how they make software instruments or at least a protocall for how they interface with our comps.
     
    Terr-or Form, May 29, 2008
    #15
  16. woldsweather

    Terr-or Form

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    One other note. With your computer setup, you shouldn't be experiencing latency at all. If you have latency after lowering your latency (buffers) and your sample rate, I'm willing to bet it's windows. You may have a lot of background services running which will sap CPU strength. There are articles and how to instructions for minimizing these CPU drainers.

    What I did on my studio machine was:

    1.I made another seperate login with my band name.

    2.Went to http://www.musicxp.net/dnn/TuningTips/tabid/59/Default.aspx (you will have to register) and followed these tips. I know that you are running Vista but this will give you some ideas for making your comp run at it's optimum.

    3. Put a sign on the studio door that trespassers would be shot

    4. Turned off all Wi-Fi, Bluetooth devices on my comp and took out the internet cable.

    This may seem overboard for one small program as this is what I do in a full studio setup but, this might help. You don't have to disable everything either. I'm only suggesting some things that might affect why you have latency on a Quad Core computer with so much RAM.
     
    Terr-or Form, May 29, 2008
    #16
  17. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    Many thanks again for all the help - will give your tips a try.
     
    woldsweather, May 29, 2008
    #17
  18. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I now find that I can't get any sound using ASIO drivers with Ableton 7, whether using True Piano with Ableton r any other of the virtual intruments. The graphis show the mido signal getting to Ableton. If I switch out of ASIO to the normal drivers I get the sounds.
     
    woldsweather, Jun 1, 2008
    #18
  19. woldsweather

    Terr-or Form

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    Have you looked at your windows sound settings?

    I often have to set my ASIO drivers in windows. Start > Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Sound > Manage Audio Devices.

    You may also have to set the ASIO in Ableton. I have never used Ableton so I'm not familiar with the menus and how to set up sound devices. Hope this helps. If only I could sit on your computer for a few minutes I could probably figure this out :confused:.
     
    Terr-or Form, Jun 1, 2008
    #19
  20. woldsweather

    woldsweather

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    I hope you can see the windows sound settings attached. I can't find anywhere here where I can choose ASIO. If there was and I did, wouldn't that mess up sound for other applications?
     

    Attached Files:

    woldsweather, Jun 1, 2008
    #20
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.