Synth Thread

[Skot]

For anyone who is into synths. Since we don't really have sections yet, I thought I'd just start a thread to discuss anything about them. I'll see how this goes...

Anyways, I have a roland SH-201. It is not the most powerful of synths, this I know. I got it because I didn't know anything abut synthesis, and it has a very easy to follow path of knobs and buttons. Everything is labeled. Some of the lead sounds destroy. It can shred pretty hard, and I haven't broken it yet (after a year and a half or so). Good beginner synth.

I was going to get an MS2000b, but they're kind of old and not as user friendly. It has a vocoder, which is rad. I don't have much experience playing one, except at guitar center for a few minutes.

Access Virus Ti (polar synth) is the most awesome synth I have ever played. Its a bit out of my price range, but the sounds you can make with that thing and the amount of tweaking you can do is rediculous. Plus, its freaking sexy. Look at it.
http://www.access-music.de/events/11-2004/virusti_details_polar.php4?product=virustipolar

Anyways, thats my limited experience with synths.
Anyone else into synth stuff?

 

[Skipp]

i never played that kind of stuff... i'm more into classic workstations, and digital pianos...

I have a long history with yamaha (starting waaaaaaaaaaaay back with the PSR185, then PSR340, PSR2000) <-- all of those are arrangers. Then I got into a band and bought KORG TR76 but i wasn't satisfied with it... it has great sounds, but i spend most of my time playing the piano which is not that good on the TR so I went back to Yamaha and bought the MOTIF ES.

Now I can die happy

 

[elwoodblues1969]

The Nord Lead 2X

Hi Skot,

I am an avid workstation guy,but I am equally passionate about synths as well.
The Access Virus TI is definately one of the best virtual synths out there,next to the Nord Wave,but I cannot afford either,so I opted for the Nord Lead 2X..and it will be my flagship keyboard,right next to my Korg Triton Extreme.
It's a $1,000 -which is incredibly affordable for what this beast does!!

It has 990 preset programs,plenty on internal flash memory to save your edited sounds...and let me tell you...you can really tweak & mangle the s**t out of the programs with all the manual controls on this crazy synth.

The Nord Lead 2X is designed and manufactured in Sweden & has a metal body,a pumice modulation wheel,& a wooden pitch bend controller.

This is a very stout & sturdy board & best of all,it has 24 bit,96kHz sound quality...and if you happen to be unaware of what this means,well,let me put it to you this way...standard cd quality is 16 bit,44.1kHz-need I say more?

Check out www.clavia.se & I guarantee you will fall in love with this synth.

The moment I scrape up a thousand bucks-this keyboard is mine...oh yeah,IT WILL BE MINE!!!!!!!!

 

[elwoodblues1969]

Kurzweil

Sysryn,

I never liked Yamahas myself,but I have to admit,the Motif ES is thier best board to date.

However though,if you really want to get impeccably authentic with regard to piano sounds,Kurzweil keyboards are the most unrivaled in sound quality and have been,for over 20 years-and they remain untouched to this day.
Of course,thier other acoustic sounds are stellar as well,along with one of the most powerful synth engines ever created.
They make very stout workstations as well.

Don't take my word for it though...check out www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com

Man...you want to talk about dying happy...there you go!

Elwood

 

[Skot]

Ive never really had a chance to mess around with a nord very much. I played that two tiered organ for a few minutes at guitar center, but thats about it. I should check the nord lead out next time im down there, Ive heard good things about them.

Sysyrn, thats one thing that I really hate about my korg, the piano sound freaking suck. But I just bought a yamaha CP-33 last weekend, and it destroys!!! I'm so happy to be able to play with weighted keys again. I was going to get a roland rd300sx, but I liked the low end and the feel of the keys better on the yamaha. I also almost bought an fp-7, but I didnt like it enough to justify the price. Im definitely a yamaha guy as for digital pianos.

Oh yeah, anyone have a V-synth? You can do all sorts of crazy stuff with that thing. I think some of the sounds are the same as the sh-201, but obviously it has a crap load more features. I was just wondering what eveyone thought about these guys.

Anyone have experience with analog synths? Its like an entirely separate category.

 

[Laura]

Anyways, I have a roland SH-201.
Anyone else into synth stuff?

I'm a Synth Virgin. I just bought my first--a used Roland RS50 for $299. I'm psyched!!! I bought it because I want to do Ambient/trance/space music. I already play guitar & have a recording interface--but no band. So, if I can lay down synth trax in Cubase I can be creative & jam along with myself.

Or so I hope!!! There's a learning curve. I can play simple chords & tunes, not much else yet. So, this winter I'm going to learn Cubase, keyboards and keep playing guitar. Busy year ahead!!!!!

I have a question about the D-beam. If I put it into 'assignable' mode, it seems to turn the keyboard off. Is that because it's a MIDI function? Oh yeah, I also need to learn MIDI>

 

[Skot]

Im not sure about the RS50, but on mine the d-beam works fine, and it is not a midi function. Does it actually turn the board off, or is there just no sound? If there is just no sound coming out, then it is probably patching it through a filter that is turned all the way down or something like that. Just mess with the knobs, you'll probably figure it out that way.

 

[Skipp]

Sysryn,

I never liked Yamahas myself,but I have to admit,the Motif ES is thier best board to date.

However though,if you really want to get impeccably authentic with regard to piano sounds,Kurzweil keyboards are the most unrivaled in sound quality and have been,for over 20 years-and they remain untouched to this day.
Of course,thier other acoustic sounds are stellar as well,along with one of the most powerful synth engines ever created.
They make very stout workstations as well.

Don't take my word for it though...check out www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com

Man...you want to talk about dying happy...there you go!

Elwood

I've never had a chance to try some of the kurz keyboards but from what i've heard, they are one of the best out there but are very difficult to program and customize, and that's something i really don't want to do with the preset sound. I just want to sit down, press the PIANO button and play . I got that from my ES.

 

[Laura]

Im not sure about the RS50, but on mine the d-beam works fine, and it is not a midi function. Does it actually turn the board off, or is there just no sound? If there is just no sound coming out, then it is probably patching it through a filter that is turned all the way down or something like that. Just mess with the knobs, you'll probably figure it out that way.

I tried out the D-beam, after I go into 'assignable' mode (which doesn't do very much) I tried turning off the D-beam and I still didn't get any sound.

 

[letsel]

Don't know anything about synths either, but I'm very interested in it.

I have a Yamaha S90 ES, which is pretty much a Yamaha Motif ES without sequencing and sampling functions(which I'm not interrested in) and an improved piano sound. <shameless pimp>http://www.sninety.com/s90vid/index_es.html</shameless pimp>.

But, I havn't even begun touching it's synth capabilities, just focusing on practicing at the moment, but at some stage I plan to delve in the dark abyss of synths, so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

 

[Skipp]

Don't know anything about synths either, but I'm very interested in it.

I have a Yamaha S90 ES, which is pretty much a Yamaha Motif ES without sequencing and sampling functions(which I'm not interrested in) and an improved piano sound. <shameless pimp>http://www.sninety.com/s90vid/index_es.html</shameless pimp>.

But, I havn't even begun touching it's synth capabilities, just focusing on practicing at the moment, but at some stage I plan to delve in the dark abyss of synths, so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

Actually... S90 ES has the same sounds as the motif ES + those extra piano samples

 

[Laura]

Sequencers

ested in it.

I have a Yamaha S90 ES, which is pretty much a Yamaha Motif ES without sequencing and sampling functions(which I'm not interrested in) and an improved piano sound.

I didn't think I was interested in 'sequencing'...wasn't sure what it was! It sounded kind of nasty and way too technical. Then I realized that my Roland RS50 (bought used, $299) doesn't have the capability to play along with myself, like with one of its rhythm tracks, or if I just recorded a pad and played piano over it.

I did some online shopping and realized that several or maybe most of the lower-priced synths don't have this. Like the Juno-D. Unless I'm reading the specs wrong. It is very hard to shop online and find out what these machines really DO. The pages are so loaded with hype and tech-speak.

I wondered why the "personal keyboards" have this feature, including the $200 Yamaha, and the $600 synth doesn't.

Do they assume everyone playing these has 2 or 3 others that they set up at a gig & surround themselves? (like Jordan Rudess of Dream Theater.)

If I can find another used synth at Guitar Center that has this feature, I might trade my Roland back in. Which would suck, because I've only had it for a week and I LOVE it otherwise.

 

[Skipp]

Sequencer on a low level keyboard is no way near to the one on more expensive keyboards.

Sequencers are used to make your own songs and recordings via tracks. Low level keyboards have only few tracks (1-4) and that's of no use to me. More expensive keyboards have for example 16 track sequencers with effects, sound mixers etc etc....

 

[elwoodblues1969]

Laura,

I had a feeling that you may end up being unhappy with your purchase of the Roland,because of what you were looking for in a keyboard,but I was not about to rain on your parade-since you were so ecstatic about your purchase at the time.

Since you are a novice to pro keyboards,it's very easy to make a mistake with a purchase & I thought I would be able to make things easier on you by suggesting the Korg TR-61.

My best guess based on my experiences, is that if you try to hard to be cheap & spend as little as possible & strive to get everything you want at the same time,it's just not going to happen for you & you may just end up spending even more in the long run.

I don't know what GuitarCenter's return policy is on used equipment,but if you can,I would ask for a full refund and if you cannot get that,I would suggest you at least return the Roland for store credit & save your money to get the Korg TR-61 if GuitarCenter carries it still.

Here's why;

There's no reason to be intimidated by sequencers & certainly not the sequencer that's in the Korg,because I've owned Korg keyboards for several years & they are very easy to learn on.

Of course,there will be a slight learning curve for you since you are new to pro keyboards,but once you grasp the fundamentals of pro sequencers,you'll be amazed at how easy it is to create music with them!

Definition of midi sequencers: like audio recorders,sequencers allow you to record in real time,meaning that you can hit record & just play the selected program on your specified track.

Unlike audio recorders,sequencers allow you to record piece by piece-as in you can record a certain # of measures or bars of music & then string them together.

By far,I have found,is that the easiest way to create a song,is to record using sequencers that have a pattern recording method-whereas you record a series of bass lines(for example) and then enter programs into the sequencer editor to construct where,when & how many repetitions of said bass-lines for playback.

The best part of this method is,is that you can use what is called a quantizing feature-which simply put,is using specified notations to fix any timing errors that occur in your playing.

The Roland Juno-G does in fact,have a 16 track midi sequencer,as well as a 4 track audio recorder,but the Juno-G's midi sequencer does not have pattern recording-which I find,makes sequencing a very tedious,time consuming chore-without this feature.

Again,I'm suggesting the Korg TR-61,because being able to customize & arrange your own personalized auto-accompaniment is a beautiful thing.

To answer one of your questions;the reason why consumer level keyboards have auto-accompaniment features,is because these particular level of keyboards are designed to accomdate the one finger beginner who is just learning how to read or play by ear.

The pro keyboards that you speak of and like the one you have currently,are designed to provide proffesional sound quality & are also designed to be integrated with computer sequencers & proffesional multi-track audio recorders-which is why there are no "arranger" functions like auto accompaniment.

The best advice I can give you,is that if you insist on only spending 5 to $600 or under,then you are not going to be happy,because not only will the sound quality be below what your after,but also,any keyboard this cheap will be missing key features to create complete songs.

I know the pro keyboard market quite well,because I've been immersed in it for several years & you will not find a more beautiful sounding and exceptional recording tool for a grand,than the Korg TR-61.

If there was a equally good & cheaper keyboard for you to buy,I would know about it & I would tell you happily.

If you are willing to save your money & you do by the Korg,I will help guide you through the Korg's functions.

Also,you can't ever go wrong buying new & if you can get a full refund from G.C.(should you decide to return the Roland),it would be very helful to you if you contact my sales rep.

His name is Yuval Fuchs & his extension is 1367.Sweetwater's #:1 (800)222-4700

I think it would be ideal for you to talk to him,because he's a keyboard guy & he's very knowledgable & helpful and he has been very good to me & I highly recommend him.

Also,if you have some means of making payments on a keyboard,Korg is currently offering a $100 rebate on the TR-61 and the offer is good until December of this year.

Good luck to you in whatever you decide,

Thom(aka Elwood)

 

[Laura]

the reason why consumer level keyboards have auto-accompaniment features,is because these particular level of keyboards are designed to accomdate the one finger beginner who is just learning how to read or play by ear.

I have to admit I'm almost like that. I mean I have been around music all my life and can intuitively find chords and things that sound great on the piano, but I dont' really have the "chops" and that's why it would be great to have an accompanying track.

The pro keyboards that you speak of and like the one you have currently,are designed to provide proffesional sound quality & are also designed to be integrated with computer sequencers & proffesional multi-track audio recorders-which is why there are no "arranger" functions like auto accompaniment.

The reason I figured I didn't need a sequencer is because I have an audio interface and a cubase on my computer. So I can record my own accompanying tracks, rhythm, etc. It is just a little more of a hassle than if the record function was right there on the keyboard.

it would be very helful to you if you contact my sales rep.

His name is Yuval Fuchs & his extension is 1367.Sweetwater's #:1 (800)222-4700

Thank you. Are you sure you don't work for these guys? ps. I don't want to mail-order any instruments. I had enough problems ordering my Lexicon recording interface from Music 123. I live close enough to Sam Ash & guitar center that I don't need any mail-order.

Also,if you have some means of making payments on a keyboard,Korg is currently offering a $100 rebate on the TR-61 and the offer is good until December of this year.

Sigh. Let me share some personal details. I have to get my chimney flue fixed. It is costing $3000. I also have 2 sons in college. Need I say more about budget issues? Also like I said I am a 'beginner'. I'm not going to be making big bucks selling songs or doing gigs. At least not for awhile

Last I talked to GC there was a used Triton LE and I think I'll see if that's still there. I have 30 days in which to return the Roland. If I can't return it I'll still be very happy with the beautiful sounds it has; I will just work a little harder & press a few more buttons to record tracks with my computer.

If you can just answer one question, does the Triton LE have a sequencer? That's all I need to know.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[elwoodblues1969]

Yes,the Triton LE has a sequencer which is identical to that of the TR as far as I know & given your financial situation,I would most definately jump on the LE if I were you...if it's in good condition-by all means-go for it!

Since you shared a few a few personal details of yourself,allow me to aprise you of my situation;

My last name is Sneddon,I live in Toms River,N.J. & I work at Target part time to supplement my disability income.

You can verify this info by conducting a search by typing in "internet address finder" in a search engine.

I normally would not volunteer this much information,but I do not want anyone thinking that I am recieving any monetary gain,or that I am trying to lure someone into shopping at a particular retailer by way of some alterior motive.

I live a modest,quiet life & I have alot of free time to spend on forums,simply because I enjoy giving & recieving advice & info on musical products.

I understand your sense of caution & skeptisism,but believe it or not,this is me,& I don't know what else to say.

I'm glad I could help & your most welcome for the advice.

Cheers,

Thom

 

[Skot]

Thanks for all the info, elwood. I must say that I do not know much about sequencers and have barely ever used mine (on the LE). I guess I have never really needed it very much, because I like actually playing everything. I also play with a band, so there are already other instruments backing me up (or me backing them up).

I definitely agree that the LE is a good deal to jump on, I love mine other than the fact that the piano samples aren't to great.

Another thing that no one has yet talked about- Arpeggirators.
This is sort of like a sequencer in that it is an accompaniment. I do not really know what the difference is by definition. I would assume that an arpeggiration is just a repeated sample that appears when keys are held down (or not), and that a sequencer plays a recorded part. This would make sense by the definition of arpeggio. But there is also karma type of stuff, which blurs the distinction between two in my eyes. Do you know anything about these two functions, the differences, etc.?

 

[Laura]

Another thing that no one has yet talked about- Arpeggirators.
This is sort of like a sequencer in that it is an accompaniment.

I was fooling with the arpeggiator on the LE. I'm not sure what an arpeggiator is for, unless you can split the keyboard & play arpeggios with one half while playing melody with the other.

I really don't understand why the Roland has an arpeggiator, chord memory, rhythm guide, and "64 note polyphony" if you can't play along with the functions on a separate track. This is why I was misled. Well, I spose you can record your arpeggios & rhythm on Cubase.

Then when i asked Roland about it they said you are sposed to use an "external sequencer". But I don't think there is actually such a gadget you can buy. (Roland suggested I buy the Fantom.) What is an external sequencer? Does this simply refer to a computer program like Cubase?

 

[Laura]

Anyway I do want to say... last night I was playing the Roland drum samples and was astonished at how realistic they sounded. Wow, technology has really advanced since the days I had a cheap Casio in the 90s. The piano samples are out of this world too. I hope any other keyboard I get would sound this incredible. If I can't find any other good keyboard exchange deals I will still be in heaven just listening to these sounds, esp. on headphones. (I am still using a guitar amp.)

Then again, I'm the kind of music freak who gets off just listening to the sound of open guitar strings.

 

[elwoodblues1969]

First off,I would like to mention-with regard to Skot's LE;I think it's a terrible waste of money to buy a keyboard with such a nice sequencer in it and to let it go un-utilized.

Even though you have a band to back you,the sequencer is ideal for laying down ideas in the form of complete songs,so basically,you have a 24 hour,7 days a week band within your keyboard that you can play with at any given time without disturbing your neighbors or family members.

I think a sequencer would be useful to just about anyone.In fact,Phil Collins has used the sequencers in Korg keyboards for years,just to lay down ideas for his band.

As for the arpeggiator function in keyboards..well...in simple terms,an arpeggio originated as a method of playing,meaning that it's a "broken" chord performed with the notes spread out,one after another,rather than simultaneously.
Arpeggios where originally played on harps and synthesizers electronically re-create this style of playing,so in essence,you could say,that it is an auto accompaniment or a "sample".

I don't have any experience with Korg's Karma boards,but I would guess that perhaps thier arpeggiation functions implement more complex forms of arpeggios using more advanced algorithims?I don't know.

Laura,to answer your questions about your Roland..well..the functions that your Roland has are essentially there to provide professional results-in conjunction with external sequencers.

The terms "external sequencers" is a generalized description,meaning that any sequencer outside of your keyboard,is a external sequencer and more specifically,they could be referring to either a software-based sequencer like your Cubase,or a HARDWARE sequencer-which is a stand-alone module,or unit like your Roland.

Hardware sequencers are not quite as popular as they were-say 15 years ago,due to the explosion of computer based sequencing these days.

However though,there are still a few companies that make external hardware sequencers,such as Korg,Yamaha,Roland & Akai.

You have to be careful though,about which external sequencer you choose,because some of them only function a "sample" or "phrase" sequencer-which caters to dj use or just basic mixing use for rap songs.

I know that the Akai MPC series functions as a full sequencer to create songs,but thier cheapest model is $600,so you may want to adhere to your Cubase for sequencing.

You can use for example,another keyboard as a sequencer-such as the Fantom,but you'll be laying down 2 grand for thier cheapest one.

With regard to polyphony and more specifically,64 note polyphony,it's very simple as to why your Roland has 64 note polyphony.

Whether you are layering multiple sounds,patching keyboards via midi,or recording-all those actions are eating up your polyphony.

Keep in mind,that your average workstation keyboard,generally has 128 note polyphony.

One more thing...I am shocked that you are using a guitar amp for your keyboard!

Guitar amps are specifically designed to cover the narrow frequency range of a guitar,meaning that a guitar's sound range,is only a small fraction of what a synthesizer's is.
In fact,something electronic & as complex as a synthesizer,actually produces the largest, & most vast frequency range possible-more so than any other instrument you can think of!

Keyboard amps do a much better job of reproducing the broad spectrum of sound from a synthesizer,but even keyboard amps fall short in accuracy & detail-in comparison to studio monitors.

The trade-off between keyboard amps & studio monitors,is that keyboard amps provide very high volumes & are more durable to withstand those volumes for a prolonged period of time.

Whereas studio monitors are designed to provide moderate volumes,but with far greater accuracy & attention to detail,so that you may hear all the suttle nuances of your playing & recording.

Keyboard amps are generally far more expensive & ideally,they should only be used for live use.

The beautiful thing about studio monitors,is that there are alot of choices out there & they are very reasonably priced-especially so,due to the fact that they are much more durable in design,in comparison to a consumer grade stereos.

Well,I think that about covers everything topic & question-wise & I am always glad to help.