Trying to update my rig and need help

[EvtonB]

First off, let me apologize if this is something that has been asked recently, or is asked a lot. If that is the case, please forward me to the appropriate thread. I tried looking but could not find anything.

My current rig consists of a Korg Triton Extreme, a Hammond xk-3, and ableton Live with APC40 and a keyboard controller.

My question is: Is there a way for me to get rig of my 2 current solid state keyboards (the korg and the hammond) and replace those with 2 more keyboard controllers that I could also run with software through ableton? And if there is a way to do this, does it make sense for me to do so?

My reasoning behind this is that when I tour internationally it is a pain in the arse bringing these heavy keyboards with me or having promoters supply these as back line and they can never find the right equipment.

I have about 10-15 patches that I use on my triton, 3 that I use on my organ, and maybe 6 that I am using on my current controller so these would essentially need to all be running at the same time through ableton right? Does that seem feasible?

I am looking for guidance from anybody that has recently undergone a change such as this and has done so successfully because at this point it seems like such an incredibly daunting task.

Thanks for reading and looking forward to your responses!

-Evan

 

[delaware dave]

couple of thoughts:

1) XK3 - nice piece, lousy leslie sim. could replace with VB3 software, providing you with equal/better organ and definitely better leslie. alternative could be XM2 module, (XK3c in a rack); would provide same organ, upgraded leslie

2) controller - Novation Impulse (MIDI controller). 61 keys with plenty of controls, sliders, buttons, etc.. 14 pounds.

3) Triton replacement - Yamaha Mox 6 (15 pounds), Kurzweil PC361 (30 pounds). I have a PC3 (76 keys). Sounds absolutely killer.

4) replace Triton with a rack like a Yamaha MOTIF rack

So you could use VB3 as your XK3 replacement using the Impulse as the MIDI controller for it. The Impulse has nine sliders to act as the 9 drawbars. You could then either replace the Triton with another keyboard (MOX 6, PC361) OR by a Motif rack and trigger it with the same Impulse or another MIDI controller. You should be able to pick up the Impulse for about $350. So it is both lightweight and inexpensive. Selling the Triton and the XK3 and replacing with some combination above wouldn't really cost you all that much money (especially if you go the Impulse route).

Food for thought.

 

[EvtonB]

Thank you Delaware Dave!

The 2 options you list for replacing the triton is using a midi controller with a rack, and buying other, lighter workstations. What about just running software through my computer into a midi controller? is there any issue with that?

Do you prefer rack modules as opposed to software? or are you just not into the whole computer set up?

thanks

 

[delaware dave]

Good question! I'm not there yet and here's why: I think many of the VST actually sound better than what you can get out of a keyboard/workstation/rack and they cost less. Example, VB3 is probably one of the best hammond/leslie sims I've heard and is pretty inexpensive as compared to purchasing say an XK3c. The problem is it is one VST. A rack/workstation/keyboard delivers probably 1000 great samples. What would the cost of 1000 VST plugins cost? So the option would be to go with a handful of VST's (and an IPad to run them on) and fill in the difference with a keyboard/workstation/rack. Too much of a pain for me to do this at this point so for me a good rack/workstation/keyboard is more economical and practical. I think as more workstations begin the process of integrating the VST into the rack/workstation/keyboard where you store the VST as a "sample" and then call up the VST via a workstation (rather than separately connecting through an IPAD type device) then I think I would be willing to go down the route. I'm a classic rock performer, so acoustic piano, rhodes, wurli, clav, CP70, brass, strings, analog synth and Hammond are my bread and butter. I might be willing to look into quality VSTs for the above instruments and a workstation to fill in everything else. The problem is that buying the VST's for those aforementioned instrument emulations (and the IPad to run them on) and then filling in the difference with a synth that would provide good quality in all other areas is cost prohibitive for me; instead I use a Voce V5+/Neo Ventilator for my Hammond/Leslie and find the Kurzweil PC3 does all the other instrument emulations good enough for me. If I were younger I'd probably head down the VST route (it's the future) but for my situation it is just not worth it for me. It is also about context; if I were strictly in a studio it probably would make more sense going down the VST route where you'd want a pristine sound and if there is a hiccup with the software you have the time to reboot and get everything up and going; you can't have software issues while on the stage. Plus, playing in a loud band I'm not sure what pristine sound buys you when the band is at 140 decibels.

 

[EvtonB]

well i think you might be under the misconception that in order to get 1,000 great sounds, you would need to get 1,000 VSTs. There are some VSTs that emulate entire workstations, for instance, there is one that gives you every sound you can get on the triton extreme. So in essence, you could buy just a few powerful and comprehensive VSTs and get all the sounds you need.

The only issue that I can see with this, so far, is that in order for me to have all these sounds ready to play for my live show, they have to all be booted up and running at the same time so I can switch in between them. This could be 20-30 sounds. Im not sure if this will bog down the CPU like crazy, but I am going to find out soon enough. The other issue, which you mentioned, is reliability and potential system crashes. I have never had my Ableton crash yet, however.

I was not aware that an Ipad was something you could run VSTs off of for a controller, and that might be a viable option if it does turn out that my cpu doesnt handle all of those sounds.

 

[b3maniac]

From my experience:
For studio - VST's
For live - hardware workstation. YMMV Don

 

[shaneffrenchrolandplayer]

Mainstage alone with a reasonably powerful processor would easily do what you looking for and replace all your workstations, leaving your promoters to only have to get your controller boards, (nearly all of which are easily synced to mainstage) It would be best to get a high quality interface for multiple outputs as well as low latency.

The piano in mainstage is pretty lousy ( in my humble opinion) so if your fussy about piano at all you should probably get another vst for it.

The synths that come with mainstage are exceptional

and the organ plugin is all right, if you only use three patches of organ you will prob get away with it

If your not wanting a laptop or are worried about durability or the danger of crashing you could consider getting a rackmountable unit that runs vst,
http://www.lionstracs.com/

 

[MountainSide]

One thing that I've run into is that hard midi modules load instantly and do not introduce latency. VSTi's, on the other hand, could be a problem depending on the number of tracks you run, how many VSTi's you run, ram, hard drive speed etc...soon or later VSTi's will slow your load times, increase latency and increase drop-outs...especially if they are sample based. Modules like the Yamaha Motif Rack and the Roland Fantom XR offer over 1000 sounds each, are multi-timbral and can handle up to 128 notes of polyphony, 16 channels of midi as well as having on board effects chains. Just a thought.....

 

[Wes]

Do you use drawbars or just presets? If the former, this may limit your selection of controllers; you should consider that. Have you thought about using a clonewheel like the Nord Stage or a Roland VR700 as your main board? I auditioned a VR700 not long ago and found it quite satisfactory for Hammond/Leslie and piano; I even played a few piano boogies on it. I DID find the split interface hard to figure out in the store, so I wasn't able to play any two-manual tunes like "Child In Time" or AWSOP. But I'm sure I could have sorted that out with a couple of hours and the manual. I liked the overdrive dial, I can't remember if it had a mic distance knob like the Vent or not.

Have you thought about asking the back line company to get you organs, and you bring the rest? A B3 with a Leslie (or Neo Ventilator) is pretty standard equipment...provided it is in good repair.

Wes

 

[delaware dave]

I was not aware that an Ipad was something you could run VSTs off of for a controller, and that might be a viable option if it does turn out that my cpu doesnt handle all of those sounds.

These threads might be of interest to you...

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2486256/iPad_as_Sound_Module#Post2486256

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbth...gonew/1/My_experience_so_far_with_iPad#UNREAD