Waterfall or hammer action
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I think the organ and synth sounds would be the same. With the different keybeds I would expect to be able to express subtle piano nuances better with the triple sensor version.
I play a waterfall keybed stage 4 in a country/rock band. It's a triple sensor. I play a lot of piano, but nothing that really leverages the triple sensor action. I play organ and synth, too. I wouldn't care to give up my waterfall keybed. It's a good blend of piano and organ feel, so you can play either no problem.
This guy has a lot of Nord info - search his page.
I play a waterfall keybed stage 4 in a country/rock band. It's a triple sensor. I play a lot of piano, but nothing that really leverages the triple sensor action. I play organ and synth, too. I wouldn't care to give up my waterfall keybed. It's a good blend of piano and organ feel, so you can play either no problem.
This guy has a lot of Nord info - search his page.
For piano, I prefer hammer action keys. For organ, synth and other tones, I can use waterfall keys but lately, I have been using hammer action keys on my Roland digital piano for organ and other voices. It's very subjective for different musicians but either one seems to be o.k. for me. I'm fairly adaptable.
Yes, for piano I prefer hammer action, but I can adjust. My concern was the sound produced when played using the WF or HP. Strange as it seems, I have experienced a significant difference in the Yamaha MO products. Same engine, same sound, different result.
Sounds more like you have an issue with their velocity mapping (which is a real thing; as they mapped out the velocity scaling for the same piano sound on Montage as Modx, but the keys are a completely different design; and similarly the MontageM vs the ModxM). But, to each his own; but I'm not really a fan of fatar weighted keys (they're too clunky for myself and most who grew up on acoustic piano keys); ironically I think fatar's semiweighted are the best semi weighted keys (like the WF keys). But for really good portable key action, my favourites are the YC88/CP88/P515 (even the P525's keys are slightly different); the solid plastic key with wood panelling on the side PHA50 keys are ok (but a little slow); I'd actually take the Casio wood/resin hybrid over those; and I'd take the PHA50's over the Nord fatar weighted keys. The Kawaii wooden key actions (varying grades) are really good, too
But we had a 7'6" grand when i was a kid, so I got used to a different key feel
Mark
But we had a 7'6" grand when i was a kid, so I got used to a different key feel
Mark
Thanks Mark. The root of my post stemmed from an MOXF6 I own, and the noticeable difference in tonality when I triggered it with my piano2 vs playing it locally. Here is the response from Yamaha tech support-
Q: Playing it via midi using my Nord Piano2, the presets sound wonderful. Will a newer model, like the MOD, have a key bed that will play the presets accurately.? The presets are very good.
A: That is normal. I have found this out 20 years ago, that the 61 key non weighted keys do not bring out the same tone as when it is connected to a weighted keyboard. So, this is really not an "older" or "newer" or technology issue. You would find this will sound different if you played an MOXF8 . An MODX M6 will not sound the same as the MODX M8. My Montage M7 will sound different if connected to my S90ES or if I buy the Montage M8. There isn't any fixes or suggestions for this, unfortunately that is the nature of weighted versus non weighted keys and how they trigger the tone generator.
Yup, that's why a lot of higher end controllers have velocity curves for you to try to adjust the response curve; even the arrangers have voice offsets and sensitivity.
To answer your original question, *yes* somewhat, *but* you learn to play slightly differently (I actually didn't even check if the Stage4's have velocity curves); I get to play on our display models while we have them, and we haven't had a Nord Stage on display for almost 4 years (they kept selling out to quickly); we've currently got a Nord Grand 2 on display.
I just took a quick look on our Nord Grand 2; there's no midi *in* velocity curve, but there is for midi out.
To answer your original question, *yes* somewhat, *but* you learn to play slightly differently (I actually didn't even check if the Stage4's have velocity curves); I get to play on our display models while we have them, and we haven't had a Nord Stage on display for almost 4 years (they kept selling out to quickly); we've currently got a Nord Grand 2 on display.
I just took a quick look on our Nord Grand 2; there's no midi *in* velocity curve, but there is for midi out.
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
I always understood that organ keys and ergo voices are simply not velocity sensitive by design and therefore manufacturers usually don't factor velocity into their samples to begin with.
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Right, the organ sounds will sound no different regardless of action, since velocity does not come into play. (And on the Nord, they're not samples, btw... the organ section is modeled.)
However, picking up from esp. what amwilburn was saying, different actions can trigger different velocities with different amounts of force, so any synth sound that employs velocity can sound different, as can (as you'd expect) any piano sound.
But I disagree with the perspective that this is strictly a "semi-weighted/waterfall" vs. "fully weighted/hammer" action difference. The same sound triggered from two different actions of the same type can also differ in their velocity response and therefore sound different. You can use MIDI to trigger, for example, the sounds in a hammer action board from an external hammer action controller, and it may not sound identical. And it has been discussed elsewhere that the same piano patch sounds different when playing on MODX8 vs Montage 8 (which is a whole other conversation, but I'll avoid the sidetrack.)
Now, whether there is an *inherent* difference in sound when sounds are triggered from any hammer vs. non-hammer actions, I'm not certain (despite the answer from the Yamaha rep). There's definitely a difference in expressivity, hammer actions give you better control over dynamics. But that's not quite the same.
So I think none of this directly answers the question of whether the Electro 7 HP will sound different from the Electro 7 waterfall. I don't think we'll know until/unless someone actually tries that exact comparison and perhaps posts a video.
As a related aside, an interesting thing I discovered when working on an older Nord Stage is that there's a circuit board inside with a jumper that needs to be set for which kind of action is installed, and if that jumper does not match the actual keyboard connected, it will tell you when you boot it up. I wonder if it may be employing different velocity curve mappings depending on the action installed. I don't know whether Yamaha or other brands likewise somehow might "know" what keys are being used, and modify their behavior accordingly. This could be another variable in whether non-hammer and hammer action version of the same model may sound different (or how different they may sound), i.e. if one manufacturer builds in under-the-hood awareness-of and compensations-for different installed actions while another may not.
I can't help thinking the answer is no, except for the difference in action of the keybeds may create that impression.
I have a new electro 6 HP and nearly new electro 6d waterfall.
I got the hp for piano when I saw how light it was to carry and 73 keys is fine for piano for me.
I have a few of the same programs on both and of course same sounds, there's a huge difference in feel, such that piano sounds better on the HP due I think to the velocity difference in my playing and that the HP is much heavier to play (heavier than my Roland RD 300sx).
As for the actual sound I don't think there's any difference, it's all in how you hit the keys IMHO.
Caveat: Haven't played an electro 7 though.
I had a Nord Electro 4d and really enjoyed the organ modelling as well as the waterfall keys. My music has evolved away from the organ and is now heavily piano oriented so the weighted keys are now more appealing to me and my playing style. I think you're going to really enjoy the Electro 7 for its excellent drawbar organ and synth sounds !! I wish you many happy years of music making with your Electro 7!!
Thank you. It was a tough choice (the keybed) and I would have liked to have tried both, but I still enjoy playing my Piano2 for now, and I look forward to the Electro 7 for for just what you have said.
. I can see why!