What are these numbers top of Treble Cleff staffs?

[Rayblewit]

I know they are not fingering because thumb is 1 and pinky is 5 . . but these are 6's 7's 8's etc. .
Thanks team.
R

 

[CowboyNQ]

No idea mate. They seem to relate to the pitch of each note, but the purpose of it is lost on me. I wonder if it's some kind of instructional aid?

 

[SeaGtGruff]

They look like degree numbers, since specific numbers always go with specific notes and they're in ascending order:

G below Middle C = 1
A below Middle C = 2
B below Middle C = 3
Middle C = 4
D above Middle C = 5
E above Middle C = 6
F above Middle C = 7
G above Middle C = 8

The Degrees of the Scale - Music Theory Academy

The Degrees of the Scale Every major and minor scale has 8 notes. These individual notes are called degrees of the scale. We could number them 1-8, but

www.musictheoryacademy.com

 

[CowboyNQ]

Except that this can't relate to the G Major scale Michael - otherwise the 7th degree would be F#.

 

[Rayblewit]

Degrees of Scale! Wow! Music theory is so complex.
Anyhow, Paul and Mike at least I know now that I should just ignore those numbers.
Many thanks
R

 

[SeaGtGruff]

Except that this can't relate to the G Major scale Michael - otherwise the 7th degree would be F#.

I thought about that, but I can't think of anything else that comes close to fitting. There are at least a couple of accidentals used, if that's relevant. Maybe they're scale degrees for a mode that begins with G but uses the notes of the C Major scale? The best thing to do would be look in the book to see what the publisher says.

Edit: Mixolydian mode:

Modes - Music Theory Academy - Music Modes Explained

The term modes in music describes the scales which dominated European music for over 1,000 years up until 1500 and continued to be heavily influential for

www.musictheoryacademy.com

 

[CowboyNQ]

The best thing to do would be look in the book to see what the publisher says

I think this is ultimately where our curiosity will be satisfied.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I agree, and I can't think of any good reason why the publisher would want to include scale degrees.

The only reasons I can think of are that they might be meant for the singer's benefit, since they seem to be connected to the notes of the vocal melody, although I can't imagine how they'd be of any benefit to the singer; or that they might be given for instructional purposes, although I don't see why you'd need to an entire song for that.

And this is assuming that they actually are scale degrees, which is questionable. As I said, they look like scale degrees, given their numeric values and the way specific values always correspond to specific notes-- at least in the portion of the music we can see-- and the way the notes and values fit the pattern that would be expected of scale degrees.

Since the key signature has 0 sharps and 0 flats, the song is ostensibly in the key of C Major. But then the first chord of the song is G7, and those potential scale degrees correspond to a G Major scale with the exception of the 7th being flatted or diminished-- as befits a G7 chord. So would it be possible to say that the song is in the Mixolydian mode of G? I don't know the accepted practices regarding modes as far as things like key signatures. I mean, we can refer to a song that has 0 sharps and 0 flats as being in the key of A Minor rather than C Major, so can that sort of practice be extended to the modes?

 

[CowboyNQ]

Since the key signature has 0 sharps and 0 flats, the song is ostensibly in the key of C Major. But then the first chord of the song is G7, and those potential scale degrees correspond to a G Major scale with the exception of the 7th being flatted or diminished-- as befits a G7 chord. So would it be possible to say that the song is in the Mixolydian mode of G? I don't know the accepted practices regarding modes as far as things like key signatures. I mean, we can refer to a song that has 0 sharps and 0 flats as being in the key of A Minor rather than C Major, so can that sort of practice be extended to the modes?

Michael I was thinking very similarly to you when I read the score. It would be helpful to see more of the melody too, but at first glance it does not really look like a G mixolydian melody to me in the way it is structured - although yes technically speaking those numbers would relate to a G mixolydian mode.

I also agree with you that just because it's notated without sharps and flats in the key signature does not necessarily mean the song is in the key of C Major/A Minor. I co-host a keyboard players' podcast and one of our recent guests had a quite hilarious tale to tell about exactly that situation.

Josh Weinstein, Solo Artist - The Keyboard Chronicles

Josh Weinstein is a composer, arranger and keyboard player and teacher of music history. We talk everything from US East Coast vs West Coast gigging differences, why you don’t hear Billy Joel on the radio on the West Coast, music history and even a bit of gear! Links to content mentioned during...

keyboardchronicles.com

Fast forward to 37:25 to hear the story - it's entertaining and very well told.

 

[Rayblewit]

I just reviewed the sheet music.
I have noticed all the number 1's are assigned to middle C. Subsequently,2 =D, 3= E etc.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
C D E F G A B C D

There is a F# in this score. The number assigned to this is 4+ makes sense.


I am guessing this is a learning to play method. Play by numbers. . . perhaps.

R

 

[Rayblewit]

It would be helpful to see more of the melody too,

Here is a big chunk of melody.

 

[CowboyNQ]

Looks like a pretty standard C Major melody to me. I think your assessment is correct Ray - some kind of "learn to play" method perhaps. It's been a fun diversion to check out.

 

[SeaGtGruff]

I still say that 1 = G below Middle C, with the other numbers following suit.

I notice that at least one number has a plus after it-- 8+, to be exact-- and the note it goes with is the G# above Middle C, so it looks like maybe you're supposed to number the white keys in ascending order, beginning with a particular note (which presumably is different depending on the song), and then + (for "augmented") indicates that you're supposed to play the black key immediately following the corresponding white key.

I don't see any numbers with negative signs after them for flats or diminished notes.

That's all just a guess, but if it is indeed some sort of "learn by numbers" teaching device, with the numbers being given to the white keys, then they would seem to be very similar to scale degrees for different church modes, but not used as scale degrees per se.

 

[CowboyNQ]

I still say that 1 = G below Middle C, with the other numbers following suit.

Yes this is correct.

 

[Rayblewit]

I notice that at least one number has a plus after it-- 8+, to be exact-- and the note it goes with is the G# above Middle C,

Yes . . my mistake . . G# not F#

However, as you can see the sheet is an original with copyright. It is odd to see these numbers on this original paper.
Other publishers (later versions) may well add improvisations, but this is an original piece by Bobby Vinton!

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

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