Yamaha learning aids compared to Casio for newish keyboarder...

[Mozartian]

I'm trying to decide between Casio and Yamaha feature sets in the $350 to $500 price range. I read music but have not played on keyboards for decades. The Yamaha appears to have more online resources of downloadable music and more onboard "learning" features than Casio in this range of pricing. Perhaps I haven't yet discovered what Casio has to offer. But it is clear that the Yamaha corporate website has more resources than Casios does.

What are your thoughts on the user friendliness of Casio compared to Yamaha? How useful do you find Yamaha's learning resources? I'm particularly interested in the feature set of the Casio WK7500 compared to the Yamaha YPG535.

 

[Wes]

Personally, I think they all suck.

But at least on the Yamaha you can turn off the "teaching" crap and let it just show you the sheet music while the accompaniment plays. Not sure if you can do this on Casio or not.

Incidentally, if you can afford YPG-535, can you afford the DGX-640? If you are primarily interested in pianos (as opposed to synths) this is a very worthwhile upgrade IMHO. I have had a DGX-620 for several years and I think the action is brilliant.

 

[Mozartian]

Personally, I think they all suck.

But at least on the Yamaha you can turn off the "teaching" crap and let it just show you the sheet music while the accompaniment plays. Not sure if you can do this on Casio or not.

Incidentally, if you can afford YPG-535, can you afford the DGX-640? If you are primarily interested in pianos (as opposed to synths) this is a very worthwhile upgrade IMHO. I have had a DGX-620 for several years and I think the action is brilliant.

"They all suck" referring to the "learning resources of Casios and Yamahas?" Actually, the WK7500 doesn't have any learning resources except tempo and key changes that I am aware of. And even these are just "features" that every keyboard has. Please correct me if I am missing a beat.

During the four days since my OP, the additional help provided by the folks on this site and elsewhere on the net helped me narrow down my focus somewhat. As for learning resources, I understand computer-based programs such as eMedia are superior to anything on the keyboards. As for the key bed, I have heard that a "piano feel" of the keys is not necessary desirable for the other synthesized sounds, especially organ. Consequently I've decided the weighted piano-style keys are not on my priority list since I will be focusing on the other voicings more than just piano. And I don't have any plans to play "real" piano keyboards or perform. This will be used for personal fun and inquisitiveness and creativity with music.

 

[Wes]

"They all suck" - learning resources on any keyboard I have ever tried. I've never tried anything on a computer (unless you count watching YouTube) so I can't comment there.

You are correct about piano keys being undesirable for many non-piano sounds. I like organ and synth patches on unweighted but non-mushy keybeds, and pianos (including e-pianos) on graded hammer action keybeds. My fully-weighted PF-85 does not get played since I changed to a hammer action years ago.

That said, the heavier piano keys can help you build stamina. If you play guitar, you could characterize the difference between piano and synth action as being similar to the difference between acoustic and electric guitars.

Oh -- and if you're interested in organs, make sure you pick a keybed that doesn't have sharp edges, so that you can do palm glissandi and smears. Piano keybeds are usually the biggest offenders here.

Wes

 

[Mozartian]

"They all suck" - learning resources on any keyboard I have ever tried. I've never tried anything on a computer (unless you count watching YouTube) so I can't comment there.

You are correct about piano keys being undesirable for many non-piano sounds. I like organ and synth patches on unweighted but non-mushy keybeds, and pianos (including e-pianos) on graded hammer action keybeds. My fully-weighted PF-85 does not get played since I changed to a hammer action years ago.

That said, the heavier piano keys can help you build stamina. If you play guitar, you could characterize the difference between piano and synth action as being similar to the difference between acoustic and electric guitars.

Oh -- and if you're interested in organs, make sure you pick a keybed that doesn't have sharp edges, so that you can do palm glissandi and smears. Piano keybeds are usually the biggest offenders here.

Wes

Are those Teflon finger mittens she uses? Or are they bandages for previous injuries from a sharp edged keyboard?

When I looked at the Casio 7500, I failed to notice the keys with regard to sharp or rounded edges. What say ye who know?

 

[Wes]

I have no idea what those are. I figured maybe she was trying to protect a coke-spoon fingernail or something. Haha. Anyway, they are completely superflous.

If you're back at the store, run your hand up the keyboard like Matthew Fischer playing A Whiter Shade of Pale. If you don't get hurt or get the web of your palm caught from a sloppy action, you're good to go in my books. Some organ players only want waterfall keys like the B3 (and the lower manual of the video above) but I think they are being overly picky.

Look at about 1:25 and especially 3:07.

Wes

 

[The Y_man]

Are those Teflon finger mittens she uses?

Brilliant!

CTK has "piano shaped" keys (sharp edges)

The Y-man

 

[Mozartian]

Don't keyboardists/pianists most often use the TOP sides of their fingers (nails) or the side of the pinky for glisses? Matthew glisses palms down? I couldn't tell for sure. No wonder he needs rounded edges. Seems if the angle of the fingers to the keys is less than 45 degrees there would be little resistance and nothing to get hung up on. I have not heard of this problem before, but I am here to learn.

 

[Wes]

Pianists don't do palm glissandi, but don't be fooled, the piano is not the only keyboard instrument of note! There are lots of rudiments which were played on organ for centuries before the piano was even invented! Pianists will generally gliss upwards with their middle finger nail, often adding the ring finger (I do), and downward with their thumb nail. I usually gliss downward when playing rock piano with the flats of my middle fingers. I've never seen anyone use their pinky, although I suppose it could work...the pinky is too weak to sound meaty IMO.

Organists will most often use their palms to gliss. A piano-style gliss sounds much less full on an organ. Palm glissandi and palm smears are bread-and-butter rock, country, blues, and jazz organ idioms.

Check out this beautiful organ playing, with a great upward palm glissando at 3:37 and a nicely-executed finger+thumb 2 octave glissando at 3:51...and the *masterful* palm smear at 6:48 (too bad you can't see his fingers there).

I guess the other thing to remember in this post is that organ, piano, and synth all have different rudiments and idioms, even though they share a common control surface. Again, the analogy between electric and acoustic guitar holds fairly well.

Wes

 

[Mozartian]

Pianists don't do palm glissandi, but don't be fooled, the piano is not the only keyboard instrument of note! There are lots of rudiments which were played on organ for centuries before the piano was even invented! Pianists will generally gliss upwards with their middle finger nail, often adding the ring finger (I do), and downward with their thumb nail. I usually gliss downward when playing rock piano with the flats of my middle fingers. I've never seen anyone use their pinky, although I suppose it could work...the pinky is too weak to sound meaty IMO.

Organists will most often use their palms to gliss. A piano-style gliss sounds much less full on an organ. Palm glissandi and palm smears are bread-and-butter rock, country, blues, and jazz organ idioms.

Check out this beautiful organ playing, with a great upward palm glissando at 3:37 and a nicely-executed finger+thumb 2 octave glissando at 3:51...and the *masterful* palm smear at 6:48 (too bad you can't see his fingers there).

I guess the other thing to remember in this post is that organ, piano, and synth all have different rudiments and idioms, even though they share a common control surface. Again, the analogy between electric and acoustic guitar holds fairly well.

Wes

Ahaaa! the big PALM GLISS. OK, I see how rounded edges will help. Teflon finger mittens not so much. I'll try that on the 7500 in the shop this afternoon. I might need first aid. Pray for me. Forehead grease on the palm might help. But after awhile there could be some buildup between keys.

 

[Wes]

It's not much that they need to be rounded per-se... just not *sharp* like on a piano. The waterfall keys used on the B3 are the very best for this, but lots of synth actions will work fine with a bit of discipline. You can do 'em on a full-on piano keyboard, but ouch, it hurts and you have to great technique for it to sound right....which I don't think you can develop on piano-style keys.

Of course, THE most important thing is that you buy something and play it every day.