Yamaha PSRWE400 sending midi only from the style section.

Discussion in 'General Keyboard Discussion' started by geobee, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. geobee

    geobee

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    Hi all, hope this is ok posted here, and not in the Midi section. Bit of both. I would like to send midi data from just the style section of the Yamaha, to trigger a bass sound vst in my DAW. It is working at the moment, but it is sending from the full keyboard, which is obviously giving me chipmunk high notes from the bass vst. Would just like it sending from the left hand/ drum/style/chord area of the keys. Still learning with this, will have to get more time on it. Hope someone can walk me through it. Many thanks Geoff
     
    geobee, Jan 12, 2018
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  2. geobee

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    This should be possible. :)

    First, the short answer:

    Press the FUNCTION button, go to the "KbdOut" function, and change it to "OFF."

    You should also go to the "StyleOut" function and make sure it is "ON."

    And you'll probably also want to go to the "SongOut" function and make sure it is "OFF."

    Now, the longer answer:

    The keyboard's 48 tone generators are dynamically assigned to play the notes of different "parts" as needed. There are three types of parts-- the keyboard parts, the style parts, and the song parts.

    The keyboard parts are the Main Voice, the Dual Voice, and the Split Voice. If the "KbdOut" function is turned on, the MIDI data for these three parts will be transmitted over the following channels:

    Main Voice = Channel 1
    Dual Voice (if turned on) = Channel 2
    Split Voice (if turned on) = Channel 3

    The style parts are the six "tracks" of the style. There are actually eight tracks, but on the PSR-EW400 these are grouped into six "tracks" for the purpose of toggling them on or off via the six TRACK CONTROL buttons. If the "StyleOut" function is turned on, the MIDI data for these eight parts will be transmitted over the following channels:

    DRUMS Track(s) = Channel 9 (Rhythm 1) and Channel 10 (Rhythm 2)
    BASS Track = Channel 11
    CHORD 1 Track = Channel 12
    CHORD 2 Track = Channel 13
    PAD Track = Channel 14
    PHRASES Track(s) = Channel 15 (Phrases 1) and Channel 16 (Phrases 2)

    The song parts are the 16 tracks of the song, which is either a song file that's being played back on the keyboard, or the MIDI data that's being received by the keyboard over the 16 "MIDI In" channels. If the "SongOut" function is turned on, any song file (with the exception of a built-in song) that's being played back on the keyboard will be transmitted over the 16 MIDI channels.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Jan 12, 2018
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  3. geobee

    geobee

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    geobee, Jan 12, 2018
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  4. geobee

    geobee

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    Thank you very much for the well explained reply. Looks like ch 11 midi should only get me the bass line midi info, will give that a try. Regards. Geoff
     
    geobee, Jan 12, 2018
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  5. geobee

    geobee

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    All good, have it working as required. Now, another issue. Have an Alesis SR18 Drum/Bass unit and can get the drums driven from the Keyboard via midi, no probs. I would also like to use the bass notes within the SR18 also, but have read that the bass notes wont change to match what the keyboard is doing, and just playing the root note of the chord. If this is so, it makes the bass function in the Alesis pretty useless IMO. If anyone has tried this, it would be good to hear opinions. Regards. Geoff
     
    geobee, Jan 14, 2018
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  6. geobee

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    I don't have the Alesis, so I don't know how it works. And I'm not sure I followed you correctly about "the bass notes wont change to match what the keyboard is doing, and just playing the root note of the chord."

    But if the bass notes of the Alesis can be controlled by external MIDI messages (i.e., Note events) then sending the Bass track of the PSR-EW400's style to the Alesis might work, since the particular Note events that get sent will be determined by the keys you're playing in the accompaniment section of the PSR-EW400's keyboard.

    On the other hand, if the Alesis plays some predetermined bass line that varies based on a combination of the incoming Note events (which determine the root of the chord) and some sort of Chord Type event (to control whether the bass line plays notes from the major, minor, seventh, minor seventh, major seventh, etc.), then it might not work the way you're hoping.

    You'll just have to try it and see what happens! :)
     
    SeaGtGruff, Jan 14, 2018
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  7. geobee

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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    I own an Alesis SR-18 and it has no trouble playing whatever bassline I throw at it thru MIDI.

    However. Out of the box, the SR-18 comes with both drums and bass set to channel 10.

    What you have to do to separate the drum synth from the bass synth is set the Bass to a different MIDI channel.

    In my case, I use MIDI channel 7.

    Then it will act as a normal synth and play whatever notes you throw at it.

    Do note, however, that it is a bass synth and therefore limited in its polyphony.

    Gary ;)
     
    happyrat1, Jan 15, 2018
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  8. geobee

    geobee

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    Thank you kindly Gary, sorry to be a pain, but could you assist me with the procedure for separating the midi tracks as you are using. The Alesis user manual is very basic indeed. Regards. Geoff
     
    geobee, Jan 15, 2018
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  9. geobee

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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    Well really you just set the MIDI channel for Drums to 10 and the Bass to whatever channel you are using. It's under the MIDI settings but I'm not at my Alesis at the moment and it's literally been years since I've had to change the channel.

    It's done easily enough if I recall correctly using the System Settings Button and the selector wheel and the arrow buttons. The menus are self explanatory.

    MIDI options are toward the end of the list.

    It's not really all that tough to figure out.

    Gary ;)
     
    happyrat1, Jan 15, 2018
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  10. geobee

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    I found it in the manual-- it's on page 45, under the section "Page 1 / MIDI CHANNEL (MIDI CH)."
     
    SeaGtGruff, Jan 15, 2018
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  11. geobee

    geobee

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    Thanks Michael and Gary. Went through the midi setup as per the Alesis pages given, and the bass notes still won't change pitch to match what is played on the PSR EW400. I note in the SR18 midi section that the bass notes cannot be assigned to any particular pad, which to me means that it will play a bass line, yes, but not with the correct matching notes.I am coming from the keyboard to the drum machine via a little usb host unit, instead of having to go via a computer. I have an older Casio keyboard with the normal 5 pin din midi out, may give that a try. The Yamaha, as you would know only has usb out to a host for midi.The drum beats are in sync, so the host unit looks like it is doing ok though.
     
    geobee, Jan 17, 2018
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  12. geobee

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    Which channel did you set the Bass to?
     
    SeaGtGruff, Jan 18, 2018
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  13. geobee

    geobee

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    Thanks Michael, track 11 as you earlier advised. By the way, where do I find those midi track outputs for the Yamaha, can't find them in the manual, or the midi data manual. I am beginning to think that the Alesis SR18 does not accept midi bass chord changes, as per a couple of other posts on different forums. Gary stated that he gets it to work as I want it to, but it beats me how. I have tried to set it to all of the midi channels in the drum machine, but it will just play a bass line that does not change to the chord playing on the keyboards. Tried it on the older Casio, same result.
     
    geobee, Jan 18, 2018
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  14. geobee

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    As far as I know, Yamaha hasn't published any documentation about how their style files work, but you can find a description here:

    http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/stylefiles.htm

    On page 11 it says "11 = bass." I was about to suggest that you might need to offset the number by -1 (i.e., 10 instead of 11), but I see from the manual for the Alesis SR18 that it numbers the channels 1 - 16 (the same as Yamaha), so channel 11 is what you'd want to specify.

    What you might want to do is connect your PSR-EW400 to your computer via USB and use the program of your choice (such as MIDI-OX, or a DAW) to monitor the MIDI data coming from the keyboard as you play a style. It might also help to use the TRACK CONTROL buttons to toggle all of the style tracks off except for BASS, so it will be easier to see which channel is being used and what types of MIDI messages are being used.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Jan 18, 2018
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  15. geobee

    geobee

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    Thanks Michael. On reading the manual, page 45, it states that bass notes cannot be assigned to the pads, meaning to me, that it will never work the way I want it to. Why they even build the thing with a bass section if it can't be controlled by midi signals is beyond me. Totally useless unless you want to sit there and program complete songs into the thing. I tried the Yammy into my DAW, being Mixcraft Pro Studio 8, and I can get all the VST's to work properly, but not from the SR18.I would like to have something to put some bottom end in when playing live, without having the delicate computer, and of course the interface has to be dragged along also. Might have a look at one of those little Midiplus sound modules, cheap enough and it accepts both din midi and usb host also. Some forums bag the sounds as old school, but the bass is ''bass'' and nothing an eq cant shape a little. I think I will give up on this SR18 as a lost cause. I did have a Zoom RT223 and it gave the same result as far as the ''bass on the fly'' went. Why? beats me. Regards. Geoff
     
    geobee, Jan 18, 2018
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  16. geobee

    SeaGtGruff I meant to play that note! Moderator

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    I also use Mixcraft Pro Studio 8! :) Well, I actually have a number of DAWs-- too many, truth be told-- but Mixcraft is definitely my DAW of choice for most things.

    It sounds like what Gary does is send MIDI Note On/Off messages to his SR18 for the bass, but he'll have to verify that. In other words, I think he's telling the SR18 what to play, rather than letting it play its own bass lines and using some sort of chord change message to modify which key and type of chord the notes of the bass line are based on.
     
    SeaGtGruff, Jan 18, 2018
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  17. geobee

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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    Exactly right Michael. I'm not using any sort of intelligence built in to the SR-18 to automatically follow the chord changes.

    I just send the individual notes of the bassline directly to the box and it plays them faithfully, as it should.

    Again, the SR 18 only does bass, percussion and drums. It's not a total band in a box. You can program your own drum patterns and basslines if you'd like, but that's a tedious button by button procedure or else you can program the bass and percussion in a DAW and use the device to render the sounds that way.

    You CANNOT, however, input a Gm or F#7 chord and expect it to magically create a bassline to follow it. It's simply not designed to do that.

    Gary ;)
     
    happyrat1, Jan 18, 2018
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  18. geobee

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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    happyrat1, Jan 18, 2018
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  19. geobee

    geobee

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    Well, that about covers my problem. I would have thought that the bass lines from the keyboard would have been played the same way as the method you are using. Oh well, back to the Midiplus idea. Many thanks anyway.
     
    geobee, Jan 18, 2018
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  20. geobee

    happyrat1 Destroyer of Eardrums!!!

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    Have you considered that the problem may not be with the SR-18 receiving the notes but rather the Yamaha not transmitting them?

    Gary ;)
     
    happyrat1, Jan 18, 2018
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