Yet Another "Which Keyboard For Me" Thread

[DefinitelyNotPink]

Hello, and many thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond. I know it's a bit draining after a while to keep coming back to the same old questions, and I do appreciate everyone's efforts!

I'd like to start playing around with home recording just as a personal hobby (so no friends to play with or gigs to consider).

I have an old CVP-305 and after watching some random YouTube videos I thought I might get a new synthesizer to experiment with.

I love Pink Floyd and I'd like to record cover versions of their songs, mainly because breaking the music down and building it up again gives me a fresh appreciation for it, whilst also helping me learn the instrument, how to layer sounds etc.

I was thinking about a Korg Kronos, mainly because I saw a video for a "Pink Floyd Sample Pack", which seems to provide the presets for various songs. I'm thinking this shortcut will hopefully help me understand how to build new, similar ones myself later when I'm more familiar with the board, process etc.

However, I read that Korg are discontinuing the Kronos and I was worried I'd end up buying something which is maybe becoming out of date.

I saw the Kross as a possible replacement, but I couldn't see any similar Floyd sample pack, which put me off.

I did see some packs for Nord, Yamaha etc. and I also started to wonder if I'm better off maybe buying a keyboard/synth plug-in to use with Cakewalk and just use my CVP-305 as a trigger.

I then started to feel that I've literally no idea what I'm doing and so thought I'd ask for help from you fine folks! (I live in the sticks with no local music stores).

So, in summary, I'm looking to recreate (as best an amateur hobbyist on a budget can!) the soundscapes of Pink Floyd.

Ideally I'd like a new board but if it's much better to spend the money on software and trigger it via the CVP I'll consider that.

I'm probably looking at around the £600-£850 mark but could stretch to £1k if that brings worthwhile benefits.

As before, many thanks to anyone who took the time to decipher this and post a reply!

 

[Biggles]

Welcome.

Maybe if you contact the Company who have produced the PF pack and see if it or a similar product is available for Nautilus, Krome or Kross 2 you might be lucky.

As it happens we have a Cowboy in amongst us aka Paul who is in a PF Tribute Band and his main keyboard is a Korg Krome. No doubt his wisdom will shine when its daylight in Australia and he catches up on posts.

Good luck

 

[DefinitelyNotPink]

Thank you.

I did see the Krome (which has an equivalent PF product) but something put me off and made me think the choice was down to Kronos or Kross but I can't remember why!

I'll look at the Krome again in more detail but just quickly do you know if the differences between Krome and Krome Ex are purely cosmetic? I'd read it was just the colour/layout but I figured there must be more to it than that, and want to check it it's something I need to worry about much

 

[Biggles]

I was under the impression the the Ex was the updated version.

 

[DefinitelyNotPink]

Yeah but I read the only "update" was cosmetic so if that's true I'd buy the old one of its cheaper

Like I say though I'm sceptical that's the "only" update and would like to know if the upgrade had real benefits or not before splashing want additional/unnecessary cash.

I'll see what else I can find but, not knowing anything myself, my conclusions are already flawed

 

[nakeyer]

Hello!
Since PF liked very much to use industrial sounds, noises, and other non-musical sounds please take a look here

Звуки mp3 — библиотека звуков скачать бесплатно семплы шумы звук mp3 wav

zvukov.com

There are a lot free sounds for download in many categories!

 

[happyrat1]

If you REEeeeeeeeeeeeealy want to old Floyd, old Iron Butterfly, Deep Purple, etc, you should have an analogue board as well as something that can duplicate a Rhodes, and a Hammond, etc.

No matter how much you think you can do with a single board, it has its limits.

I'd recommend a Krome and an analogue board like a Prophet, or a Moog. Behringer makes some decent analogue knockoffs of vintage boards. The Deepmind 6 or Deepmind 12 would be decent enough while staying below budget.

Gary

 

[nakeyer]

Reeeealy! Do you think - if today I want to play PF - I must buy and place in my room some new synths "a Prophet, or a Moog", if tomorrow I will want to play J-M Jarre - I have to buy and place in my room about 6 new synths, if on the day after tomorrow I will want to play Bach.... Or no! My room is too small!
By fact I have only one MIDI keyboard and rather strong notebook with NI Kontakt (with several libraries I need), DUNE 3 software synth to play with creating new sounds and Hauptwerk for enjoying Bach.
To say - it is more easier to clean only one keyboard from dust if I have no musical ideas during a week!

 

[DefinitelyNotPink]

By fact I have only one MIDI keyboard and rather strong notebook with NI Kontakt (with several libraries I need), DUNE 3 software synth to play with creating new sounds and Hauptwerk for enjoying Bach.

I am also thinking along these lines, but I figured it might be easier to learn on the Krome w/ the presets than to go full-DAW at the start?

I'm not sure if I'm over complicating things though (and there's also part of me that just wants a new toy!)

If I was to stick with the CVP as a MIDI keyboard and Cakewalk as my DAW, can you recommend any libraries/sample packs I can buy to achieve the same/similar outcomes?

Also, please forgive might be a noob question, but do you get "better" sounds out of dedicated hardware such as the Krome or MODX, or is end result the same given they're all digital software anyway?

 

[nakeyer]

I think "Krome or MODX" are also a kind of computers which operates with some Sound Fonts and some Oscillators and Filters. The difference with notebook is in Digital to Analog track. So - I forgot to say that I use the external Audio Card with its ASIO drivers for better DA conversion and small delay between I press a key and get a sound. So - good external sound card makes your home computer nearly the same as the real synth. Really - at home even we have the hi-end amplifier and hi-end speakers our ear will not recognize - is it playing the real synth or its software "brother".

 

[nakeyer]

About "what sound bank or in other words Libraries/Samples"... Everybody has their own taste on the felt-tip pen
Please try to take a time to listen Dune 3 sounds (its presets for example) in YouTube. There are also some tutorials in YouTube how to create your own sounds.
About Kontakt libraries - most of all I use them to emulate the real acoustic instruments in my records - Violin (or other strings), Trumpet (or other brass), guitars (nylon, steel, distorted, etc), different Choirs, Accordions, Ethnic instruments ... And so on... For Hammond sounds I use Blue 3 by GG Audio... But maybe you will like another libraries and another software synths for example - from Korg or from Roland.. Also there is not bad Hybrid 3 software synth with a lot of presets and a lot of virtual knobs to get your own sounds...
Likely there are a lot of software synths and Samplers with libraries on any choice! Most of all you can take a look on them in YouTube.
And at last - if you type "Free VSTi" in Google - you'll get a lot of links! Some of them are also not bad!
Regards!

 

[happyrat1]

A ROMpler is a ROMpler. Digital is digital and analog is NOT!

Many of the greatest synth tunes of the last 6 decades were "happy accidents" created with REAL VCOs and VCAs and VCFs.

If you think you can discover the lost chord using only a laptop and a controller, you MIGHT succeed, but more likely you'll get bogged down and lost in a maze of sub-menus and probably never discover the sound you've been missing all your life.

And if you're so happy with a laptop and a controller then why in hell are you asking about buying a Kronos in the fist place?

I've played with many VA machines in my life and while they are useful, they sound nowhere as rich with harmonics as even the simplest VA synth.

Anyway, all I did was offer a suggestion and you jumped down my throat so screw you and I unfollow this thread.

Gary

 

[nakeyer]

"Many of the greatest synth tunes of the last 6 decades were "happy accidents" created with REAL VCOs and VCAs and VCFs."
And I thought that 60 years ago they started to make all music using computers with VSTi....

 

[happyrat1]

It's like trying to explain the flavor of ice cream to someone who's lived on roots and berries their entire life.

Go to a music store and spend an hour with a Dave Smith Instrument and be enlightened.

Gary

 

[happyrat1]

Digital SOUNDS Digital. It has DSP artifacts which you may not consciously notice until you actually drive a VCO into self oscillation.

THAT'S where the treasure is buried me hearties.

Analog tones are a more natural, purer sound.

Gary

 

[Dmanlovesmusic!]

I don't know if you solved your Pink Floyd solution but I have a bit of input for you. There are some pretty good PF sound packs available for the Kross 2...from SynthCloud and CEVM Sounds. I also have a Korg Minilogue XD Module and sound packs are available for it as well. IMHO I think the Minilogue XD is the best as it is an analogue synth. Cheers!

 

[Chris Laarman]

Hello, and many thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond. I know it's a bit draining after a while to keep coming back to the same old questions, and I do appreciate everyone's efforts!

I'd like to start playing around with home recording just as a personal hobby (so no friends to play with or gigs to consider).

I have an old CVP-305 and after watching some random YouTube videos I thought I might get a new synthesizer to experiment with.

I love Pink Floyd and I'd like to record cover versions of their songs, mainly because breaking the music down and building it up again gives me a fresh appreciation for it, whilst also helping me learn the instrument, how to layer sounds etc.

I was thinking about a Korg Kronos, mainly because I saw a video for a "Pink Floyd Sample Pack", which seems to provide the presets for various songs. I'm thinking this shortcut will hopefully help me understand how to build new, similar ones myself later when I'm more familiar with the board, process etc.

However, I read that Korg are discontinuing the Kronos and I was worried I'd end up buying something which is maybe becoming out of date.

I saw the Kross as a possible replacement, but I couldn't see any similar Floyd sample pack, which put me off.

I did see some packs for Nord, Yamaha etc. and I also started to wonder if I'm better off maybe buying a keyboard/synth plug-in to use with Cakewalk and just use my CVP-305 as a trigger.

I then started to feel that I've literally no idea what I'm doing and so thought I'd ask for help from you fine folks! (I live in the sticks with no local music stores).

So, in summary, I'm looking to recreate (as best an amateur hobbyist on a budget can!) the soundscapes of Pink Floyd.

Ideally I'd like a new board but if it's much better to spend the money on software and trigger it via the CVP I'll consider that.

I'm probably looking at around the £600-£850 mark but could stretch to £1k if that brings worthwhile benefits.

As before, many thanks to anyone who took the time to decipher this and post a reply!

1) Some two months ago, there was a similar (but not equal!) thread over at www.gearspace.com.
Me, I collected the suggestions, had a look at the product pages, and queried YouTube for the products. Then I watched some "what is it?" videos, some "what could I do with it?", listened through headphones to some.
(I did find one particular keyboard synthesizer among those suggested that would fill a niche with me, purchased it, love it.)

2) As your budget may be "limited", you may follow your idea of using a mere "keyboard controller" that you already have, and limit your search to synthesizers in software (like VST plug-ins).

3) You seem to be in the UK (and I'm in NL). Note that July 4 is a major holiday in the USA, with many special offers from web shops. They may be gone tomorrow, but they may return even before Black Friday.

 

[Viscount]

I wouldnt buy the Kross, either 1 or 2, heard/read many comments of its poor build quality, and bad feeling keyboard, - in their range of Korgs, i would pick the Nautilus, almost as good as the Chronos, - i myself bought the Yamaha MODX6 recently, and i am pleased with it, and also because it was cheaper than the Nautilus, if i had have the money, i would have bought the Nautilus, - but i am absolutely satisfied with the MODX, - just my 50 cents.... Greetings, Levi in Sweden

 

[Biggles]

I had a Kross 2 for two years.

I found Korg sounds to be far superior to those on Yamaha’s at the price point of the Kross or Krome, with the exception of the lead piano. That is solved on the Kross 2 by an update that added over twenty different piano sounds to the K2. I did find that the K2 sounds are on a par with the Roland Juno DS.

There is nothing wrong at all with the build quality of the K2, it is compact, very light and once the OS is mastered producing sound combinations with effects is a very quick process and it does have easily created and accessible favourites which can be assigned to the multi mode Pads.

Downside of a K2 is keyboard feel, which I found on a par with the MODX but not as good as a Juno.

Pick of the bunch though is the Roland Juno DS, I would go for this board in this price range.

I did extensive in store testing between the K2 and the Juno and only bought the K2 because it was smaller and lighter. The store had a MODX as well as the K2 and Juno so I was able to switch between the three, the MODX OS is in a different league for not being user friendly and the sounds most definitely are not to my taste so the MODX was consigned to being an also ran.

Do test in store if you can as my findings may not be yours.

 

[anotherscott]

A few thoughts, without going into quite everything that has been brought up...

Krome EX is not just a cosmetic update, it also adds a bunch of new sample data to the original Krome.

Kross and Krome have almost nothing in common with Kronos. Kross and Krome use strictly sample-based synthesis, and even their sample-based synth engines are, not only different from each other, but both are different from the one on the Kronos. (Which means, not just different sounds/capabilities, but also the patches are not interchangeable among any of them.) But also, the Kronos also has other sound engines (nine engines in total compared to one)... in this case, the VA synthesis in the Kronos would make a big difference.

It is unclear as to whether you are looking for something just to do PF's synth sounds, or if you're also looking to duplicate their non-synth keyboard sounds with this particular new purchase as well.

You do not need analog. Digital--particularly digital that includes virtual analog--can get you most of the way there, especially from the perspective of someone who is a beginner on this journey. I would not make digital-vs-analog a deciding factor.

Related, even analog won't necessarily get you any closer to a particular Pink Floyd sound than a digital will, unless you had the particular analog gear Pink Floyd used. For example, one of the synths Pink Floyd used was a VCS3 synthesizer. With each analog having its own particular sonic characteristics and and functionalities, unless your analog is a VCS3, I would not necessarily expect to be able to get closer to that sound with an analog than you'd be able to get out of a digital (at least depending on which digital you selected). Or maybe closer in some aspect but further in another.

Yes you can do it all in computer plug-ins, though hardware gives you a more immediate, more visceral experience. It is possible to approach that with software, but it takes work to get there, in terms of configuration, control mapping, etc. For software, I'd also consider an iPad. The iPad has many excellent VA synth emulations (including VCS3), would be simpler to set up, and a little closer to hardware's immediacy because of the touchscreen. (I guess you could also look at VST emulations on a touchscreen PC, I haven't looked into how well those operate compared to the iPad ones.) Here's a demo of PF sounds on the VCS3 emulation on the iPad:

Iconic Pink Floyd Sounds On iVCS3 – Synthtopia

www.synthtopia.com

The range of conversation in the comments there is interesting as well. And to circle back to my earlier point, you'll see one person says they don't sound as rich as the original analog, which is something you may or may not agree with, but either way, those sounds are closer than what you could get out of many analogs, which while obviously capable of making tons of analog sounds, are not necessarily capable of making THOSE analog sounds, depending on the designs of the filters, the routings available, the raw sounds of the oscillators, etc.

The £1k budget is limiting, of course. I'm surprised Kronos was even being considered in that context. maybe you've found a well-priced used one?