Laptop on stage

[Fred Coulter]

I've been on record that I'm not thrilled with keyboard players playing computers on stage. I have to say that I saw a band last night at Delandapalooza which used a Motif 6 and a MIDI controller running a laptop. I talked to the keyboard player, and he said he's never had a problem.

Brave man.

But apparently it can be done, even on the local circuit.

 

[Eric Barker]

I've never had a problem either, not a big one anyway. Even before I got an SSD it was fine, but now with SSDs, the problems of hard drive vibrations (the biggest concern) are now out of the equation. After all, most hardware synths are just underpowered, overpriced computers. I switched 6 years ago, and I have absolutely no interest in going back. I also just have so much more control over my workflow, so I can concentrate more on PLAYING, and less on complex patch switches... even on a single controller, and I can get the same results I would normally get with 3-4 boards. Can't beat the convenience!

But I guess it all depends upon whether you can really synergize with computer interfaces. I've been using computers along side music since I was a kid, did my undergrad in electronic music, and have done my share of CS, so computer UIs come extremely naturally to me. My first keyboard was a DX7, so I kinda learned early the pain of diving through deep menus on a small screen, and am much happier with a laptop monitor to tweak all my controls.

 

[Alchemy]

I've never had a problem either, not a big one anyway. Even before I got an SSD it was fine, but now with SSDs, the problems of hard drive vibrations (the biggest concern) are now out of the equation. After all, most hardware synths are just underpowered, overpriced computers. I switched 6 years ago, and I have absolutely no interest in going back. I also just have so much more control over my workflow, so I can concentrate more on PLAYING, and less on complex patch switches... even on a single controller, and I can get the same results I would normally get with 3-4 boards. Can't beat the convenience!

But I guess it all depends upon whether you can really synergize with computer interfaces. I've been using computers along side music since I was a kid, did my undergrad in electronic music, and have done my share of CS, so computer UIs come extremely naturally to me. My first keyboard was a DX7, so I kinda learned early the pain of diving through deep menus on a small screen, and am much happier with a laptop monitor to tweak all my controls.

somehow you got me to finally see it, I think, assuming you are right. It sounds feasible that anything on a hardware synth can be on a basic PC. Would that make hardware synths just for show? Can it still be more economical. Easier or more efficient in some cases? As I begin to look into this modern synth world I see a person could spend a lot of money on software, maybe a lot more than hardware. Honestly, so far any software I've tried doesn't sound as good as the presets on my old JV1080. I know those sounds got passed on up to current roland models but can it really be duplicated with PC software? Seems it should but I'd like to hear a comparison. Assuming so then the only drawback would seem to be audience perception? I go to live music forums some times and they won't allow anything "automated." I think of them as being anti keyboard and have almost said so. If you aren't physically hitting each note in real time they don't allow it. So, there is a population who thinks that way. Would I draw some kind of line myself? I haven't been to a concert in years but I have to admit I would probably prefer watching someone play an acoustic guitar than someone playing acoustic guitar from only sitting with a PC, if put to that extreme. Keyboardist with laptop? I can't picture thinking anything about it as long as they were playing but I probably have a keyboard bias too

 

[happyrat1]

As a hobbyist I don't gig, but I still refuse to go the soft synth route for several reasons.

1) They exhibit lousy behaviour in Linux. (ie. they crash a lot. )

2) They have ZERO resale value.

3) Good ones are just as expensive, if not more so than a good used board.

4) There's a certain sense of immediacy in being able to remove a dustcover, flick two switches and immediately be able to jam as opposed to two minutes to boot up the computer, then mousey fiddling to load and configure the damned program and THEN finally being able to play a tune.

I think soft synths still have a Loooong way to go before they replace hardware synths.

Gary

 

[Eric Barker]

In response to Alchemy:
I COMPLETELY agree, I'm a "play every note, don't trigger ANYTHING" kind of guy, in the extreme. The only exception I have is if I'm doing a "one man band" thing, then I'll give all the most basic things to loops, like pads and instruments I wouldn't play anyway(drums, rhythm guitars). but I've I'm not using 2 hands for the most central parts 2-3, then kill me now. But I don't even do that very much, as I mostly play in bands, and then I'm always playing every part. I also play Trumpet, and I often will play piano and horn at the same time too, so I have no sympathy for triggering unless there is no other way. I use my laptop as a SYNTHESIZER, not as a triggering device... I can, but I won't.

Happyrat: agree with everything there, except I would argue that most modern digital synths have little resale value too. Maybe a bit more, but like computers, they're constantly being upgraded and outdated. They're valuable as controllers (I wouldn't mind getting an old K2500 as a controller), but soft synths use controllers too. My Arturia Keylab should have just as much resale value (for it's price) as any hardware synth. Your other points don't mean much to me, because I'm a Mac guy (have to use one for my other jobs as video editor), and I had already bought softsynths gradually for studio use, so price hasn't been a big issue. As for the last point, I would have to agree. But TBH, booting Kontakt and loading a piano takes me about 5secs, so that's not that much worse. I live right beside a University music center with grand pianos, so if I really get the itch to jam, I just go over there anyway... and that wouldn't matter if I had a hard synth or soft synth... acoustic piano will always be better.

No question there are a few drawbacks, it takes a little more time to setup/breakdown. But as I said, because of complex patch switching, I can do with one 88 board what I would normally use 4, so that's a savings right there in time and money. It also has a much steeper learning curve, setting up my MainStage layout to my liking took many many hours, it was definitely a bit of a time investment.

I keep going back to the fact that it all depends upon how you like to organize yourself, and what you work best with. I would never fault anyone for going full hardware. But for me, and the way I work, going the laptop route was literarily like a breath of fresh air. The moment I switched, I NEVER hooked up my hardware synth (Alesis QS8) again.

 

[Alchemy]

I've been on record that I'm not thrilled with keyboard players playing computers on stage. I have to say that I saw a band last night at Delandapalooza which used a Motif 6 and a MIDI controller running a laptop. I talked to the keyboard player, and he said he's never had a problem.

Brave man.

But apparently it can be done, even on the local circuit.

good thread, I've wondered where the line should be drawn even before I joined. I don't want to change my other reply but now I'm thinking that maybe a laptop would take away from my experience whether I directly knew it or not. I don't want to use the word mystical but imagining watching Pink Floyd or Moody Blues in a dark smoky arena way back in the day getting what they did out of what they had now that would be something to watch, hard to explain.

 

[Eric Barker]

Oh yeah, computer needs to be hidden or at least very inconspicuous. Mine is a small 13" in a matte black cover, dimmed way down low, and just sits on one end of my keyboard right next to the wall, practically invisible in all photos. I'm not gonna fault someone for having to have it right near them, but they should do their best to try to conceal it so any lights or logos aren't distracting to the audience. NO BRIGHT APPLES!

 

[Fred Coulter]

The setup for the player had the two keyboards facing the audience. (Only those who are in the know would now that the controller was a controller.) The laptop was on a different stand, 90 degrees away. The laptop was oriented so that the audience could barely see it. Just a thin piece of equipment. The player used the controller, not the laptop, to change sounds, etc.

 

[Alchemy]

How old are controller keyboards? It just hit me I may have played on one 94-95. I wanted to have an original riff professionally recorded at a friends studio. It was the first and only time I saw his stuff. He used midi sheet notation editing software back then too I remember. He was really fast editing and tweaking I remember. I wonder if he's a member here? I googled him a couple years ago and he has some cd's out.

 

[CowboyNQ]

I see a lot of bands using computers and controllers live, particularly ones who use sequencing and backing tracks. Seems to work well for them.

Personally I've never ventured down that path as I am paranoid about stuff crashing, and I worry about obsolescence (not that hardware keyboards are immune from this). I do use an iPad to do a tiny amount of soft synth work and run some samples, but it doesn't have to work very hard at all, and if it goes down during a gig it's not the end of the world.

I know there are definite benefits to soft synths and virtual instruments so I suppose it's a matter of personal preference, like a lot of things us keyboard players do.

 

[Eric Barker]

I do use my computer to change patches, but only between songs. I have a pretty complicated setup where I have one "Setup/Mix" per song. But the way I have it setup, I can use multiple Setups contained in one song, and so I can switch between whatever patches I need right from my board, or even foot pedal. If I'm in a band that uses a setlist, I can just line up the songs in order and hit my designated "next song" button on my board, and never touch the computer. However, my current working band likes to change things up and judge songs by the dance floor, so I have to switch manually, and for that, I have to scroll through my 150+ list of songs arranged alphabetically, but I've gotten pretty fast at it.

 

[Alchemy]

obsolescence

taking that word out of context I wonder if you got it where I think you did? It could happen. I suppose I have to admit that my biggest hobby now is being a hoarder and auction nut. I know an old guy who deals in old books who could have fit right in that episode. I constantly see libraries auctioning off their book shelves now. "What do they need 'em for? " Makes me think of Alexandria. So many possible paralells including musical instruments. Wisdom is never outdated. It's amazing to watch this now in 2017. They probably have the whole episode on there somewhere.

 

[Hansi]

I've just started using soft synths for some sounds now. I've always been a bit paranoid about that since I really like having dedicated keyboards for each group of sounds and I don't want to be fidgeting with a computer during a live set.

I am using MainStage with Keyscape, Ravenscroft, Mellotron and Orchestral Suite with a 88 note controller. The synths and Hammond go through dedicated keyboards. I now keep the computer out of sight and use a footswitch to switch through the sounds on a setlist in MainStage that I set up before each show. So far no major issues but I did have one instance during practice where my controller, not my computer, stopped working during one of the more intricate piano pieces. I will have to take a closer look into that but so far my computer seems to be working fine with the m-audio controller being the week spot...

So far the Keyscape is giving me much better vintage keyboard sounds than my old MP7 and is more portable (although the feel of the keyboard isn't as good). Might try to further this midi rig in the next years by getting a computer that will only be used for this and a couple of high quality controllers. The Hammond will however not be replaced by a midi rig as I have never found one that gives me the feel and controllability for computer as I have with my organ.