Moonlight sonata

[Laura]

Well I have always loved Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata & wanted to play it. I tried to play some of it last night & found that my hands just weren't big enough to play the 9-note stretches. I mean my fingers are just not long enough to make that stretch. I'm afraid I'll sprain my hand if I try.

Should I just give up, or is there any hope my hands will "grow"? (I'm a middle aged adult.)

Laura

 

[PianoMan]

You need to use pedal and "roll" the chords. Lots of people with small hands do this, especially when playing Liszt pieces. I seriously doubt your hands will grow.

 

[Laura]

You need to use pedal and "roll" the chords. Lots of people with small hands do this, especially when playing Liszt pieces. I seriously doubt your hands will grow.

Thanks... but there is a section where you are supposed to play both the lowest and the highest note of the arpeggio... the melody is played by the pinky on the highest note. I don't know how I could fake that.

 

[Skipp]

I don't know which part you're talking about but you can try playing the "higher" of the lower tone with your right hand instead the left.

Maybe you can pull it off that way

 

[PianoMan]

http://www.all-about-beethoven.com/beethovenmusicsheet.html

Bar 8, 18, 52, 54

You'd have to talk to a piano teacher and see if there's a way you could play it. I can't really tell you how to roll chords, and I'm not sure it would work for this piece, since the triplet thing is so pervasive. I also can't tell how close you are to the 9th without seeing it, etc. I'd recommend a lesson with someone just so they can tell you if it's possible, and how etc.

For whatever it's worth, out of the whole piece I only saw 4 places where there was a 9th, so I'd try find a way to do it if I were you, since it's not like it's happening everywhere.

 

[Laura]

http://www.all-about-beethoven.com/beethovenmusicsheet.html

Bar 8, 18, 52, 54

You'd have to talk to a piano teacher and see if there's a way you could play it. I can't really tell you how to roll chords, and I'm not sure it would work for this piece, since the triplet thing is so pervasive. I also can't tell how close you are to the 9th without seeing it, etc. I'd recommend a lesson with someone just so they can tell you if it's possible, and how etc.

For whatever it's worth, out of the whole piece I only saw 4 places where there was a 9th, so I'd try find a way to do it if I were you, since it's not like it's happening everywhere.

Yeah, another roadblock in learning this piece is... can it be played on a keyboard with 61 keys? I set my keyboard to 'down one octave' but I don't know if there might be some higher parts I wouldn't be able to get.

 

[Arjen]

Can't be played on 61 keys, you'll already miss notes at the third "riff" of the intro (don't know how to explain this any better). You could ofcourse work around it (especially for practice purpose), but you'll miss notes from the original.

 

[Laura]

Can't be played on 61 keys, you'll already miss notes at the third "riff" of the intro (don't know how to explain this any better). You could ofcourse work around it (especially for practice purpose), but you'll miss notes from the original.

I set my keyboard to minus 1 octave. So I was able to play the first page of it. I didn't buy my keyboard with the expectation of playing classical music... so I guess I won't ever be able to "perform" the piece (as if I could anyway!) but it was a thrill to be able to play ANY of it because me & my whole family have been trying to play it since we all were kids.

(I do have a 'real' clavinova upstairs...it is just so clunky & hard to play.)

Well I figure I can play parts of it as a training exercise, and if i ever get to the part with high notes I can hit the octave button on my keyboard & get those notes.

 

[Laura]

9-note stretch--moonlight sonata

Yeah & so another question I have: I have been playing parts of the Moonlight Sonata & I got to the part where there is a 9-note stretch.

Using a tape measure I measured my natural reach between thumb & pinky as 7-1/2 inches. That is the same measurement as the middle of the B key and the C of the next octave... a 9 note stretch. So I can play the notes, but that doesn't leave any flexibility room for playing the other notes in between.

My hands REALLy start to hurt after a little of this. I don't know if that is an OK thing that just means my muscles are stretching out, so that someday they really will be more flexible. Or whether it means I am going to sprain my hand & cause permanent injury.

I bet Beethoven had bigger hands than me.

 

[PianoMan]

Bar 8 : You'll have to use your thumb to play the lower A and B (lift it off the A to play the B) I'd guess.
Bar 18: Shouldn't be a problem
Bar 52: Shouldn't be a problem
Bar 54: Shouldn't be a problem

You don't have to hold the lower note, just the higher note, so once you play it, lift your thumb to make playing the following two inner notes easier (in bars 18, 52, 54). For bar 18 I'm guessing you wouldn't be able to use your second finger to play the second note as you'd be stretching an octave between your second finger and pinky so use your thumb to play the first and second notes of the triplet.

Get a teacher.

 

[Laura]

Well, another big roadblock in this piece is that the music notation is so weird, he has things like a B-Sharp, which is the same as a C-natural. Why's he do that??? Just to confuse us newbies??? Is there some weird thing in classical notation that you have to show the same note in different ways in different places?

It's a good thing I know how it is supposed to sound, and I also have an mp3 that can be slowed up.

I am actually learning this, I'm almost thru the 2nd page out of 4, I'm incredibly proud of myself!!!!! This is like the 'Stairway to heaven' of classical piano, in fact I heard my dad play it when I was a teenager and it totally blew me away, I was never able to hear this song without breaking into tears, it's that beautiful. And now 40 years later I'm finally learning to play it. It's the accomplishment of a lifetime.

 

[Skipp]

Hehe... yea... most of the people don't get it at first...

You see, B# is not the same as C. It may be the same tone, but it's not the same note

As you probably know already, there are half steps and full steps, AND
while going through the scale you have to have ALL the notes in there
(when i say all of them i mean C D E F G A B C with sharps or flats if needed).

Lets take a C major scale:

C D E F G A B C with half steps between III-IV and VII-VIII right?

Now let's take it a full step up to D major:

D E F G A B C D - We have all our notes here, BUT now we have to "apply" the
rule from above - Half steps between III-IV and VII-VIII.

If you look at your keyboard you'll see that the final result will be:

D E F# G A B C# D

If you go another full step up to E major you'll have:

E F G A B C D E (all the notes here), apply the "halfstep" rule for major scales and you'll end up with:

E F# G# A B C# D# E

Ok, enough with the shaprs now

Let's see what's with the flats.

Let's take the F major scale and see what happens:

F G A B C D E F (all the notes here), applying the "rule" from above and we get:

F G A Bb C D E F

Notice how it's not F G A A# C D E F even though A# and Bb are the same tones, they're not the same notes

The same thing goes for the rest of the scales. Min, Maj, Dim, Sus... etc etc.

You have to have all the notes in there, and then you apply the rules for the scale you're in.
Of course if somewhere within a song that rule is not applied it is marked in the sheet. for example
if in D major (D E F# G A B C# D) and for some reason you need to play F instead F#.

I hope this clears it up a bit

Now for your homework... try figuring out what NOTES are in F# Major scale and Eb major scale

 

[PianoMan]

Laura... the piece is in C# minor. In accordance with all Sysryn wrote... in minor the seventh is often raised. The seventh note in a C scale of any kind, is some sort of B note. In C# minor, since C# is the root, the seventh note is B. To raise the seventh so that it is a half step below the root, it must be a B#. It would actually be more confusing to read C natural and C# in the piece, and it would be inconsistent with other keys.

 

[Mourndark]

Applying the rules mentioned above means that every minor and major scale in every key can be written out with each note on its own line or space, that's why the end C# harmonic minor is written A B# C# instead of A Cnatural C# (missing out the 'B' line).

Next week's homework in advance: try writing out Db harmonic minor, the enharmonic equivalent of C#. To obey the above rule, you'll have to use a double flat somewhere.

 

[Skipp]

Applying the rules mentioned above means that every minor and major scale in every key can be written out with each note on its own line or space, that's why the end C# harmonic minor is written A B# C# instead of A Cnatural C# (missing out the 'B' line).

Next week's homework in advance: try writing out Db harmonic minor, the enharmonic equivalent of C#. To obey the above rule, you'll have to use a double flat somewhere.

hhehe... yup. that's right. Funny thing music is

 

[Mourndark]

hhehe... yup. that's right. Funny thing music is

In late medieval and rennaisance music, (when they were still getting used to this tonal thing), any ascending scale would be written in terms of sharps, and any descending scale would be written in terms of flats, even if they contained the same tones. Key signatures hadn't been invented!

 

[PianoMan]

Db minor doesn't exist lol. The minor equivalent to Fb major? I don't think so.

 

[fbieler47]

Well, another big roadblock in this piece is that the music notation is so weird, he has things like a B-Sharp, which is the same as a C-natural. Why's he do that??? Just to confuse us newbies??? Is there some weird thing in classical notation that you have to show the same note in different ways in different places?

It's a good thing I know how it is supposed to sound, and I also have an mp3 that can be slowed up.

I am actually learning this, I'm almost thru the 2nd page out of 4, I'm incredibly proud of myself!!!!! This is like the 'Stairway to heaven' of classical piano, in fact I heard my dad play it when I was a teenager and it totally blew me away, I was never able to hear this song without breaking into tears, it's that beautiful. And now 40 years later I'm finally learning to play it. It's the accomplishment of a lifetime.

Well congrats on a project well underway. I've read this thread and I guess I'm in the class of players that not only don't have a clue what their playing, I'm still trying to figure out why there are black keys on my keyboard. I think some one in the past put them there to punish piano students. Well it's one step at a time for me, still working on 4/4 and 3/4. trying to figure out where the extra beat went. Music, not just for breakfast anymore.

 

[Laura]

Hehe... yea... most of the people don't get it at first...

You see, B# is not the same as C. It may be the same tone, but it's not the same note

Thanks for your help & patience.

I'm sorry, but you lost me. If it is played on the same note as a C and it sounds like a C, it's gotta "B" a "C", lol.

I'm not very sophisticated about music theory... after all, my first musical instrument (after the folk guitar, which doesn't count) was a Banjo.

Now if this was Arabic music I could understand the difference between Bsharp and C, 'cause they have Quarter-tones. Did Beethoven learn music in the Middle East? Lol.

 

[Skipp]

Db minor doesn't exist lol. The minor equivalent to Fb major? I don't think so.

C, C#, D, Eb, E, F, F#, G, Ab, A, Bb, B, C

Those are the scales that do exist if i'm not mistaking
Only 2 sharps, but theoretically you could name it the way Mourndark did.