Hi, one file has sysex the other doesn't. the tracks all have different midi channels. Track 1 always contains the sysex. in my xg works software its track 1 midi 1
Combine 2 Midis from Yamaha?
- Thread starter MiddleC
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It won't do more than 5 of "my music". It has an A track used for the styles, which is multiple tracks, but I don't know how many.
The drums on the midis in the download are on the first track of 102U.
Thanks for joining then, but I need to learn t the process. Maybe during your joining then it will become obvious what I'm missing.
I should mention again, one of those tracks is at 240bpm, the other is at 180.
That's because those print screens are not of the two files loaded on top of each other. But my description of the bottom one is misleading. That is the results of having both in the DAW and saving the two stacked ones out, then loading into the Yamaha, then saving it back out from the Yamaha. I was looking for differences.
My original print screen at post 4 is accurate to loading the two files on top of each other.
Oh, another thing is that Track 1 of 105U is not finished. But it is the lonely first instrument to play. I put it there so that the song produced would start at the correct place.
I'm going to do some experimenting today. I think there are 2 things that is causing the sound problems with the joined midi files.
First problem: the sysex files. I just searched on it and found this on sysex files.
It feels like if I remove them some of the Yamaha specific things that contribute to the sound will be lost. And with 2 of them in one file it may be quite problematic. Not sure if there is a way to overcome that, for example combine them?
One main question about that is what happens if I remove one, or both? I'll experiment with that.
The other is the drums track. It's not on track 10 as @rikkisbears instructs. That may be the main issue, which was the drums are specifically messed up when I load the generated MIDI from the DAW.
Based on the way I did the files for my last post with pictures only one sysex shows up. But if I load both midis one after the other in the DAW there will be 2.
One other thing... @rikkisbears asked a question that I failed to answer: "Just out of interest, does the DGX have styles. If you record a song with a style, does it work with the sequencer, ie can you record extra tracks?".
On the DGX there is a reserved set of tracks for styles, track A, and then 5 tracks that are there for the musician to use as he/she wishes. They can be modified at any time.
I understand there are really multiple tracks contained in the A track. Only styles can be saved to that track... at least I haven't found another way to put " other stuff I want" there. That being said, when I load the midi created with the DAW, the A track gets used and 2 of the 5 regular tracks remain free which could also be used. If I remember correctly, the 10 track midi I loaded, more than 1 instrument in 1 or more of the tasks did get loaded.
First problem: the sysex files. I just searched on it and found this on sysex files.
It feels like if I remove them some of the Yamaha specific things that contribute to the sound will be lost. And with 2 of them in one file it may be quite problematic. Not sure if there is a way to overcome that, for example combine them?
One main question about that is what happens if I remove one, or both? I'll experiment with that.
The other is the drums track. It's not on track 10 as @rikkisbears instructs. That may be the main issue, which was the drums are specifically messed up when I load the generated MIDI from the DAW.
Based on the way I did the files for my last post with pictures only one sysex shows up. But if I load both midis one after the other in the DAW there will be 2.
One other thing... @rikkisbears asked a question that I failed to answer: "Just out of interest, does the DGX have styles. If you record a song with a style, does it work with the sequencer, ie can you record extra tracks?".
On the DGX there is a reserved set of tracks for styles, track A, and then 5 tracks that are there for the musician to use as he/she wishes. They can be modified at any time.
I understand there are really multiple tracks contained in the A track. Only styles can be saved to that track... at least I haven't found another way to put " other stuff I want" there. That being said, when I load the midi created with the DAW, the A track gets used and 2 of the 5 regular tracks remain free which could also be used. If I remember correctly, the 10 track midi I loaded, more than 1 instrument in 1 or more of the tasks did get loaded.
Here is what I came up with:
Removing both SysEX files gave the best results, which still were not great.
The main sticking point is that the drums track plays piano keys, as opposed to making a drum sound. I think the problem is that coming out of the keyboard there is no mapping to a drum. I create the drum track from a Drum Kit on the keyboard.
OH! Typeing that last comment made me wonder if it is coming out of the keyboard correct. It is tricky. When I save the file to a midi, if I double click it and just play it on the pc via MS Media Player, it plays the drums as a piano. But if I import that back into the keyboard, it plays the drums.
So, I have 1 file that has drums in it, which will not play drums outside of the Yamaha, but when I import it back in, it plays drums. In fact, if I take that into the DAW, and render it to a midi and load it into the Yamaha, it plays drums (but again, not playing the file with media player.
So, next step: put the second file at the end of the first file, effecting the merge. I find that whether or not I leave the sysex that is with the second file, when I import it into the keyboard, no love.
So, made progress. But adding more tracks from the second song screws things all up.
Removing both SysEX files gave the best results, which still were not great.
The main sticking point is that the drums track plays piano keys, as opposed to making a drum sound. I think the problem is that coming out of the keyboard there is no mapping to a drum. I create the drum track from a Drum Kit on the keyboard.
OH! Typeing that last comment made me wonder if it is coming out of the keyboard correct. It is tricky. When I save the file to a midi, if I double click it and just play it on the pc via MS Media Player, it plays the drums as a piano. But if I import that back into the keyboard, it plays the drums.
So, I have 1 file that has drums in it, which will not play drums outside of the Yamaha, but when I import it back in, it plays drums. In fact, if I take that into the DAW, and render it to a midi and load it into the Yamaha, it plays drums (but again, not playing the file with media player.
So, next step: put the second file at the end of the first file, effecting the merge. I find that whether or not I leave the sysex that is with the second file, when I import it into the keyboard, no love.
So, made progress. But adding more tracks from the second song screws things all up.
happyrat1
Destroyer of Eardrums!!!
Channel 10 is the traditional drum channel.
Playing a drum track on any other GM/GS/XG channel will play piano notes.
Playing a drum track on any other GM/GS/XG channel will play piano notes.
Understood. Didn't work for me with files from the Yamaha DGX. For success I needed to leave the SysEx file, and NOT add midi tracks that weren't in the file in the first place. I'm hoping to learn a method to get past that.
Hi, I have a feeling ( and I could be totally wrong) that the sequencer in the dgx is designed to make use of the styles as a basis for songs,and that the additional 5 tracks are there to flesh out a song ie gives you the opportunity to add some extra tracks with strings or brass (whatever).
All the keyboards I’ve owned,have always had a 16 track sequencer
( except I did own an dgx for a short time about 15 years ago, and I don’t remember a great deal about it)
Is there any sort of style editing? Maybe the drums could be a style track and/or the bass.
Maybe a bit complex, but, don’t think you‘re going to get more than 5 tracks otherwise.
All the keyboards I’ve owned,have always had a 16 track sequencer
( except I did own an dgx for a short time about 15 years ago, and I don’t remember a great deal about it)
Is there any sort of style editing? Maybe the drums could be a style track and/or the bass.
Maybe a bit complex, but, don’t think you‘re going to get more than 5 tracks otherwise.
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Just a couple of notes:
Yamaha XG can set drum channels to channels other than 10 using Bank Select MSB 126 or 127, so while 10 is the GM standard, XG files may have drums on any channel, depending on how it has been configured.
The free Windows midi editor Anvil Studio has a "Merge" option in the file menu. It will merge the currently open midi file with the file to select to merge it with. You can then reassign channels as needed. Generally it seems to work well, but it may or may not provide a "perfect" merge.
Changing only the BPM of a file will increase/decrease the perceived playback speed of the music. If you want to merge a 180 BPM file with a 240 BPM file, one of the files will have to essentially be rebuilt. See "Idea 1" from this post on midi.org, where I was trying to accomplish a BPM change before merging two files. I have not found another reliable method as of yet, though I am sure they do exist.
midi.org
Yamaha XG can set drum channels to channels other than 10 using Bank Select MSB 126 or 127, so while 10 is the GM standard, XG files may have drums on any channel, depending on how it has been configured.
The free Windows midi editor Anvil Studio has a "Merge" option in the file menu. It will merge the currently open midi file with the file to select to merge it with. You can then reassign channels as needed. Generally it seems to work well, but it may or may not provide a "perfect" merge.
Changing only the BPM of a file will increase/decrease the perceived playback speed of the music. If you want to merge a 180 BPM file with a 240 BPM file, one of the files will have to essentially be rebuilt. See "Idea 1" from this post on midi.org, where I was trying to accomplish a BPM change before merging two files. I have not found another reliable method as of yet, though I am sure they do exist.
Change tempo of mid file without changing perceived timing
I'm in a time pinch (unintentional tempo joke!). I activated a 30 day trial of Melodyne to try sussing out some MIDI files from non-instrumental audio in some SNES files that I am working on for the SNES MIDI Remaster Project. The game audio plays a single "note" that has varying pitches in the...
Ok Gentlemen...here's what I've come up with.
One main identified issue is that the drums came in sounding of the piano keystrokes used on the Yamaha for the specific drums associated with those keys. So I took the midi that had the drums, and loaded it only in the DAW, and left the SysEx in place. Drums sounded right...
Next I used that file with the SysEx in track 1 then added the tracks of the second file, minus the SysEx. No Go. It was comical really...the drum beats sounded OK. but there were different drums hit hear and there; symbols would also creap in rather often. The alignment of the different instruments was off. Pretty much a mess.
So, I also tried loading the file to a new project, loaded just like the 'successful' one. This test was to test speed change. I change the speed from 240 to 120. Results: Still played at 240, and the drums were all screwed up again.
Next I wondered about using the file minus the drums and using drum kit from the DAW. So I created a file minus drums, and and just the SysEX file from the non-drum midi. It actually played on time, and is the first one that sounded ... well...OK. But, wrong instruments were used, volumes were not honored. I listened to it all (4 min plus song). But not feasible...too many other things bring problems.
I guess I've invested enough time in this. Really, the other instruments, I'm not sure they were the exact ones that I used to create the midi file. I was too busy trying to get past the drum problem.
I do have a call into Yamaha support to inquire about if it's possible to use a daw and not caused all these problems, and which one. I'm supposed to get a call...but I won't hold my breath.
Again, I appreciate everyone's input and guidance.
One main identified issue is that the drums came in sounding of the piano keystrokes used on the Yamaha for the specific drums associated with those keys. So I took the midi that had the drums, and loaded it only in the DAW, and left the SysEx in place. Drums sounded right...
Next I used that file with the SysEx in track 1 then added the tracks of the second file, minus the SysEx. No Go. It was comical really...the drum beats sounded OK. but there were different drums hit hear and there; symbols would also creap in rather often. The alignment of the different instruments was off. Pretty much a mess.
So, I also tried loading the file to a new project, loaded just like the 'successful' one. This test was to test speed change. I change the speed from 240 to 120. Results: Still played at 240, and the drums were all screwed up again.
Next I wondered about using the file minus the drums and using drum kit from the DAW. So I created a file minus drums, and and just the SysEX file from the non-drum midi. It actually played on time, and is the first one that sounded ... well...OK. But, wrong instruments were used, volumes were not honored. I listened to it all (4 min plus song). But not feasible...too many other things bring problems.
I guess I've invested enough time in this. Really, the other instruments, I'm not sure they were the exact ones that I used to create the midi file. I was too busy trying to get past the drum problem.
I do have a call into Yamaha support to inquire about if it's possible to use a daw and not caused all these problems, and which one. I'm supposed to get a call...but I won't hold my breath.
Again, I appreciate everyone's input and guidance.
Hi, sometimes no matter how hard we try, it “ain’t gonna work” if the machine isn’t designed to do it.
I’ve tried many weird and wonderful experiments over the years with my keyboards, most worked others didn’t.
Get to the stage where you feel like pulling your hair out ( bald ladies aren’t attractive though, so stopped short of doing that ), sometimes just have to move on.
I’ve tried many weird and wonderful experiments over the years with my keyboards, most worked others didn’t.
Get to the stage where you feel like pulling your hair out ( bald ladies aren’t attractive though, so stopped short of doing that ), sometimes just have to move on.
Well, I got a call back from a Yamaha tech today.
Apparently just pulling in midi files produced by the yamaha is not the way to do what I want. Apparently want I need to do is go ahead and hook the DGX to the laptop, and establish it as the Midi controller, An interesting thing he pointed out is a setting listed on p. 74 of the manuel: Midi - Initial Setup
This will allow me to setup the instruments I am using. Didn't get to talk about much else. Naturally he called while I was away from home and unable to communicate for long.
So, I'm watching tutorials on the DAW itself. It's not like I have a "how-to" on doing this. I'll also search for some vids on YouTube.
The saga continues, for a bit...
Apparently just pulling in midi files produced by the yamaha is not the way to do what I want. Apparently want I need to do is go ahead and hook the DGX to the laptop, and establish it as the Midi controller, An interesting thing he pointed out is a setting listed on p. 74 of the manuel: Midi - Initial Setup
This will allow me to setup the instruments I am using. Didn't get to talk about much else. Naturally he called while I was away from home and unable to communicate for long.
So, I'm watching tutorials on the DAW itself. It's not like I have a "how-to" on doing this. I'll also search for some vids on YouTube.
The saga continues, for a bit...