Expression vs Volume MIDI functions on a DS61

[Oogie Wa Wa]

I got an expression pedal. I'm pretty sure it's the right kind, although I may need to swap polarity.

I want to control all the Patch volumes except for the bass 'guitar' Patch with it, in my Performances/Favorites so at times I can fade them out or bring them down a little.

I see how to assign the Control Pedal to a CC (or MIDI function) in the global system menu. They are CC7 for Volume and CC11 for Expression.

I see in the Performance parameters that I can selectively turn the receipt of the signal for each Patch present; Checking or unchecking VO or EX. Both are checked.

So I believe that I should select one of the pedal functions, and leave the the checks set for both on my Performances

So, being a total MIDIot, which one should I use? Is there a difference? I understand the both, playing electric organ and bass guitar. To me they are essentially the same thing. Will either one work? Is there some limitation (or perhaps tradition?) that I need to know.

Thank you all kindly, as always.

 

[happyrat1]

Only guessing here but I'd think Volume affects the global output while Expression should work on only the channel you've assigned it to.

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

It wouldn't appear so from what I can tell.

In a Performance, 16 Part Mode there is a separate receive toggle for each of the Parts used for both Volume and Expression. In fact there are like eight or nine of them for each Part; Hold, Vibrato, Pitch Bend and more. Basically a matrix of what the controls like the joystick and input jacks do and don't apply to when used.

There is one for example for the Hold function, and right now all of my Performances have the Hold toggle unchecked for the bass guitar Patch/Part (2), and selected for most of the rest. So I can keep playing the bass as individual notes while everything else is being Held (sustain).

They aren't any different from what I can tell.

I guess some trial and error is needed and I'll post the results.

 

[delaware dave]

I got an expression pedal. I'm pretty sure it's the right kind, although I may need to swap polarity.

I want to control all the Patch volumes except for the bass 'guitar' Patch with it, in my Performances/Favorites so at times I can fade them out or bring them down a little.

I see how to assign the Control Pedal to a CC (or MIDI function) in the global system menu. They are CC7 for Volume and CC11 for Expression.

I see in the Performance parameters that I can selectively turn the receipt of the signal for each Patch present; Checking or unchecking VO or EX. Both are checked.

So I believe that I should select one of the pedal functions, and leave the the checks set for both on my Performances

So, being a total MIDIot, which one should I use? Is there a difference? I understand the both, playing electric organ and bass guitar. To me they are essentially the same thing. Will either one work? Is there some limitation (or perhaps tradition?) that I need to know.

Thank you all kindly, as always.

Here's the difference, and I'll use examples:

CC#7 (volume): if you have two voices in a program, one of the voices is set twice as loud as the other, when you move the pedal all the way down (midi value 127) both voices move to 127 and the volumes of both voices ars now equal.

CC#11 (expression): : if you have two voices in a program, one of the voices is set twice as loud as the other, when you move the pedal all the way down (midi value 127) the ratio of loudness remains the same, i.e. one voice is still twice as loud as the other. Both voices are overall louder but the ratio of loudness between the two is maintained.

This is how it is supposed to work, whether or not Roland implemented it correctly on the Juno DS is a question i cant answer because i dont have one to confirm. It's possible that the implementation has a bug and it doesnt work properly.

 

[happyrat1]

Here's the difference, and I'll use examples:

CC#7 (volume): if you have two voices in a program, one of the voices is set twice as loud as the other, when you move the pedal all the way down (midi value 127) both voices move to 127 and the volumes of both voices ars now equal.

CC#11 (expression): : if you have two voices in a program, one of the voices is set twice as loud as the other, when you move the pedal all the way down (midi value 127) the ratio of loudness remains the same, i.e. one voice is still twice as loud as the other. Both voices are overall louder but the ratio of loudness between the two is maintained.

Isn't that what I just said?

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Here's the difference, and I'll use examples:

CC#7 (volume): if you have two voices in a program, one of the voices is set twice as loud as the other, when you move the pedal all the way down (midi value 127) both voices move to 127 and the volumes of both voices ars now equal.

CC#11 (expression): : if you have two voices in a program, one of the voices is set twice as loud as the other, when you move the pedal all the way down (midi value 127) the ratio of loudness remains the same, i.e. one voice is still twice as loud as the other. Both voices are overall louder but the ratio of loudness between the two is maintained.

This is how it is supposed to work, whether or not Roland implemented it correctly on the Juno DS is a question i cant answer because i dont have one to confirm. It's possible that the implementation has a bug and it doesnt work properly.

Thanks, I think I got it. Trying it today. I'll turn off EX for all of the bass patches and leave it checked on all the rest.

Expression would be what I want; lower everything together, keeping the ratios.

You know what's frustrating??? GRRRR! MiniRANT! My pedal has a 'sensitivity' knob, sometimes they have 'minimum' knobs. I thought I'd watch some videos to see if it would do what I want; smoothly change expression fully, OR only bring it down to a certain level with the control partly engaged.

17 VIDEOS LATER and not ONE SINGLE review/demo/instruction mentioned using the control AAAAARGH!! I hate the Interwebs!

OK, here goes nothing. Thanks guys.

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Works fine, thanky kindly folks! All the right hand stuff going to the right channel/PA comes up and down proportioNately between the min and full. While the bass responds the way I want it to through the right channel/bass amp, only depending on how I play.

Now to modify all my Performances/Favorites before Saturday.

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

For what it's worth, it was worth all the while. Worked find and dandy live.

Now I need a good Vox Continental patch. House of the Rising Sun is our next project. Key bass, organ w/solo, lead vocals. I don't know why I do this to myself.

 

[happyrat1]

Rising Sun, Inna Gadda Davida, and Iron Man.

The holy Trinity of garage bands everywhere.

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Rising Sun, Inna Gadda Davida, and Iron Man.

The holy Trinity of garage bands everywhere.

I've only been singing a little longer than playing keys, three years, which I hadn't done since '76. It's all new to me!!! Having a blast, living the dream, playing and singing in a rock and roll band 35X/yr and getting paid for it at 68to!

 

[happyrat1]

When's the last time you played Smoke On The Water?

 

[Oogie Wa Wa]

Never have other than maybe messing around with it in '73. I didn't play from '74 to '22. Never played much rock, never played in a band. Only ever played two solo gigs at my uncle's restaurant.

But I do still have the Wurlitzer spinet organ with the Orbit 3 synthesizer 3rd rank that I bought with my own money back in '71. Sitting in the back of my spare room "studio." One of these days I'll fix it uphahahahaha!!!